My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Well of course but she is family & she was with Saad on holiday.
There’s a block on Zaids inherited share of the house,he has no right of entry at present…. locks are changed, especially if he knows about Saads business/rants/finances & the house is empty.
I think his smuggling is on a bigger scale than than dhows toing and froing Iran to Dubai. There was a BBC (i think) documentary about perhaps 18 months ago on these little sandy beaches where the fisherman can make a pittance for whatever fish is left. Or risk their lives smuggling across the Straits of Hormuz
Smuggling in a traditional sense, plus drugs & arms are easily found by authorities, but what of plans & technical stuff, that would never be found . Trafficking technical know how,secrets from the company.
Maybe this:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00pqbfg/episodes/topics/strait_of_hormuz
I don’t think that SAH was into refurbishing BMWs (plural). I think that as a mechanical engineer and a hands-on type, he serviced his own BMW and kept it in tip-top shape, as he did with his motorcycle. The postie didn’t say anything about him being a spare-time BMW dealer, either. What he said was more like “He had this refurbished BMW and always kept on going all over the place in his BMW”.
Thus, I really don’t see SAH trading second-hand Beemers in Dubai. However, James’ supposition (or factual knowledge, it is hard to tell) that SAH may have established the odd shell company or two in Dubai while he was there sounds entirely plausible. Dubai is a major offshore centre with a number of “free zones” in which anything goes. DBX is one of those “free zones” – tax-free, regulation-free, anything goes. Likewise, Dubai is a great place in which to keep untaxed earnings (or indeed the proceeds of crime), much safer than Switzerland or Singapore.
IMHO, the probability that SAH availed himself of these opportunities while he was in Dubai is very high. The question then is: What did SAH do with that shell company and bank account after he left Dubai? Did he leave them lying dormant, did he use them for a little tax fiddle related to his work as a contractor (i. e., charged his clients in the name of his Dubai company and had them remit payments to his Dubai bank account), or did he use them for more nefarious purposes? I don’t know. Perhaps James does.
@ peter
I don’t think that SAH was into refurbishing BMWs (plural). I think that as a mechanical engineer and a hands-on type, he serviced his own BMW and kept it in tip-top shape, as he did with his motorcycle. The postie didn’t say anything about him being a spare-time BMW dealer, either. What he said was more like “He had this refurbished BMW and always kept on going all over the place in his BMW”.
………………..
Peter watch the video. The postie DID say that Saad refurbished BMW’s (plural)and left with THEM.
What he said was nothing like “He had this refurbished BMW and always kept on going all over the place in his BMW”. Not at all.
@Straw @Katie
Lorna Davey is well quoted. (is she on video). Would be in a good position to know the family through the National Childbirth Trust.
http://www.nct.org.uk/branches/esher/events/baby-first-aid-class
Saad al-Hilli was keen cyclist and loving father, say neighbours : Shiv Malik and Vikram Dodd, Guardian 8 Sept.
Lorna Davey, said Hilli’s wife had been planning to return to work as a dentist with her youngest daughter due to start school. She had spent the summer swotting for dentistry exams. Davey knew the family from the local school, Claygate primary, where the Hillis’ eldest child, now recovering from the attack on her, was a pupil. “They were very pretty, smiley little girls and a very nice, happy family.”
Notice that another resident, James Matthews describes the child tandem trailer as later seen in the photograph, being built by SAH – “lived in the well-heeled village for more than 20 years” – himself.
Matthews said she was born in Baghdad but that the family had settled in Sweden and believed that she had worked in dentistry in Abu Dhabi at some point.
Dodd also finds Jack Saltman.
BBC: Lorna Davey, whose daughters attended the same primary school as Zainab, said the family were friendly neighbours…”I’d see them on the way to school and on the way home from school and we’d have a friendly chat to pass the time of day, that sort of thing.
…some interesting snippets in those early articles before the wall came down.
HuffPo:
Mr Stedman said he did not know Mr al-Hilli personally but described him as a “family man” who shared his interest in caravanning.Mr Stedman said his client had not been on holiday in this area of France before.
The accountant said his son first put him in touch with Mr al-Hilli. In 2004, he began to do the accounts for Mr al-Hilli’s company – Shtech.
The company dealt with computer aided mechanical design work, mainly in the civil aviation industry, Mr Stedman said.
Mr al-Hilli was the only employee and had worked with airline manufacturer Airbus on aircraft interiors, he said….
Jack Saltman said…”My wife is in floods of tears, she’s heartbroken.
Mr al-Hilli set up the company in 2001 and got most of his work through industry contacts. The company was “doing well”, Mr Stedman said……
Felix, eh? In other articles Stedman said he’d known Saad AND his father, and spoke on a weekly basic and had a longer call once a month.
…however, notice the Evening Standard’s report:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/alps-shooting-three-people-in-france-massacre-shot-with-executionstyle-bullet-to-the-head-8112462.html
Neighbour Lorna Davey [39 from the Sun]said her daughter attended Claygate Primary School with Zainab, while Zeena was due to start at the school this year.
She said: “They were very pretty, smiley little girls and a very nice, happy family.
“I’m shocked. They’ve obviously been extremely unlucky.”
Ms Davey said the family would often go on holiday in their caravan and had been away on their latest trip for at least three weeks.
Mrs al-Hilli took denistry exams in the last few months, she added.
A family friend, who would only give his name as James,[Matthews???] said Mr al-Hilli had not mentioned he was going away when the pair last spoke in August.
He said: “It was probably a spur of the moment thought, ‘let’s go to France’.
“He didn’t mention this holiday. He just mentioned he had a sore back and was taking a couple of weeks off work.”
@Dopey
yeeeeeees. Different stories. No wonder BM is kept under wraps.
Have you got a link? (have to rush out..)
From the Daily Mail
Julian Stedman, 67, who was Mr Al-Hilli’s accountant, insisted his client was ‘straight up’.
‘I have been to the house quite a few times and had tea there, Middle Eastern style,’ he said.
‘I have known Saad, his wife Ikbal and his father as well. Saad and I had talks possibly once a week and longer ones once every month
Link
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2199513/Saad-Al-Hilli-shooting-French-Alps-Extraordinary-life-engineer-victim.html
The outstanding Mr. bluebird
Bluebird
26 Sep, 2012 – 9:00 am
@ferret
AMS looks to me like a letterbox company. AMS means “aeronautic maintanance systems” according to a few of the other AMS companies. There are are hundreds if not thousand AMS companies at this same address registered. That address is a letterbox address only.
Now we could speculate why. There are many reasons for letterbox companies:
Hiding tax income, 2. too small and too poor for having an own office, 3. Representing foreigners from other countries ( not the case here), 4. hiding their real activities that is taking place somewhere else, 5. created for the whole purpose to launder money earnt from other (secret or illegal) activities. Anything else as a reason for a letterbox company?
Reason 2. Would be rational if he had no other office. But he had several othrr offices. So then, why a letterbox company?
———–
bluebird
26 Sep, 2012 – 9:37 am
To those who are so focussed about mossad:
If israel would kill everybody who posts rants and threats on israel, then israel would have to kill 30.000+ israel haters per day. That does not happen of course and is not logic.
However, people who are really dangerous for the israeli people have been killed previously, such as high ranked members of hezbollah (shia organisation!) funded by iran and syria(assad). In such a case (hezbollah) often the wife and close relatives were killed as well.
Given what Aked said, he could have become a member of Hezbollah’s foreign security branch that allegidly cooperates with al-qaida branches. That of course could be a reason to kill him if he planned a terror attack on israel. Any ozher reasons for killing a family are nonsense.
2. When are members of secret service organisations being killed?
Only if they change sides or if they are working for both sides AND if they have any information that could be a threat for the security service or for tge people of the other side and when they are using this information either for blackmailing or as a threat against this country.
In 99% of such cases, however, spies will be arrested and certainly their families wont get killed, except when they are working for terror organisations ( hezbollah, al qaida, chechnian liberation, etc.)
Now i have built a family tree og the a-Hillis and uploaded it.
Please tell if you can see it alright.
And may thia be an inspiration for you all (esp. Bluebird) for
making a better one!
http://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-195053521/al-hilli
or this?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/06/article-2198777-14DE1CA2000005DC-256_470x423.jpg
You can drag it sideways in order to see the whole family
Dopey29 Sep, 2012 – 11:15 amSomeone asked for te name of Iqbal’s father earlier.It’s Abdul-Amir Al Saffar.(when searching, the name Abdul-Amir appears a lot as Abdulamir)
###
Thank you dopey.
@sorensen:
I am going to check your family link later tonight snd will add info that i might have. Have no time right now.
The usatoday link a little bit above my post does not work for me. 404 error.
It is now updated with Zaid’s wife Geraldine and their son Sean
Hussein abdul amir al saffar, obviously a son of abdul amir al saffar and cousin of iqbal is still arrested in bahrain because of the latest uprise and on hungerstrike.
http://www.bahrainrights.org/en/node/4621
Life imprisonment for apparent cousin of iqbal in bahrein:
http://www.islamtimes.org/vdcb9fb88rhbgwp.4eur.html
@Dopey
Julian Frank Le Mesurier Stedman: Tea there, Middle Eastern style
George Aicolina: “I’ve been to the house quite a few times, and had tea there, Midle Eastern style..I have known more Saad and his wife Ikbal and possibly his father as well and we met,him and I, sort of exchanged,we had little talks, neighbourly talks possibly once a week and ossibly longe ones once every month…” [ bizarre ramblings…]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/sep/06/french-alps-shootings-neighbour-famly-video
Wonder if the Kingston Wheelers had tea middle eastern style back at Claygate after a ride?
Kenneth, could you drop the brackets from your links, they cut links dead , it would be easier to just click them instead of having to copy ?
Now I have taken a shot of the Saad branch of the family tree and placed it on David Icke.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1061062086&posted=1#post1061062086
Katie, I’m sorry but I always use brackets, because if I don’t it gets stucked in the mod-filter, and when I THEN post it in brackets it get stucked as a duplicate post
Single links seem to go through Kenneth, I find if two are posted at the same time moderation kicks in.
@ Dopey 29 Sep, 2012 – 2:26 pm
You were right, I misheard that. What the postie said was: “(…) and the guy used to refurbish BMWs, so he was always going off to places in his BMWs and stuff (…)”
So what do you think now Peter, does that sound odd to you ?
@ Katie
So what do you think now Peter, does that sound odd to you ?
Yes, it does. I mean, neighbours have said that SAH helped them fix their cars, and he seems to have been quite a thrifty person in general, but surely he could have earned much more on an hourly basis by working as a qualified engineer than as an amateur car mechanic and/or used-car dealer.
Off-topic: If I were a serious conspiracy theorist, I should say that Craig Murray had joined the ranks of the enemy by opening a new discussion thread on the present topic whilst keeping this one open. There probably is a technical term for this amongst serious anoraks, “forum splitting” or something like that 😉
Perhaps he enjoys fixing things – cars……..satellites