My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccoy
I still believe it was either a setup, mislead into it and either the RAF spook was there to help him or he was there to kill them and collect data.
Or it didn’t happen at all and the entire thing is one massive pile of lies which will never be found out due to conflicting stories.
Sometimes the truth just comes out but people miss it completely because they are away off on a mad goose chase.
We will never know. I always use 9/11 as a reference. If we couldn’t do anything about that, we will never be able to do anything about other strange stories from the news.
So it’s best not to even believe for one minute what the news reports because it is lies within lies within lies
So apart from a few smart thinkers, all the info gathered has been directly sourced from blogs and other forums and the news.
So if we do find out, what is any of us going to be able to do with the truth? We shouldn’t have to seek information on this as we all know it is a lie, so instead of trying to figure it out, maybe we should be asking why it happened
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GREAT POST!
100pc CORRECTIMUNDO!
911 FORUMS WERE SWAMPED WITH MORONS POISONING THE WELL AMATEURS AND TONS OF PRO SAYANIM TYPES
AND IT HAS NOW RUN OUT OF STEAM AS A RESULT! THIS IS GOING THE SAME WAY
ICKE OLD HANDS ABOVE ALL SHOULD KNOW THIS
SORRY FOR CAPS AND TYPOS IM ON A FIDDLY IPHONE
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by crowcrow
Great find there – there is nothing concrete, just un-named ‘weapons experts’ as yet. Not sure what methods they have for exactly noting the device used.
Info on Welrod: http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/bri…-silent-e.html
Worth noting just 8 rounds in a magazine so would have needed 3 additional magazine changes for the 25 shots, so might not be an ideal choice. Also the silencer is only built to last for 10 shots. But the idea of a ‘quiet’ gun does fit in with the facts we know about the RAF man being close behind but not hearing anything.
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Yeah it’s a VERY obscure wel (poisoning the well???!?!?) rod!
NOT A MOSSAD GUN AT ALL THEN!
Phew! Triples all round! Barman!
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Quote:
Originally Posted by empee
Becoming clear to me that Phil D is being rolled out because RAFman’s bottle has crashed.
If RAFman was SAH’s handler, I can just imagine him coming round the corner seeing a carfull of the Al-Hillis and his breeks going right there. Just a thought.
A very good thought.
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Spies are not supermen. I devoured the le Carre novels abe especially Len Deighton, he REALLY had it sussed, whereas JLC was a real spy all his life, only turning against the UK spymasters in his last few years.
Both great men, especially JLC to turn.
From the BBC.
“The man, named only as Philippe D, 41, told France’s Le Parisien newspaper he was unable to rouse seven-year-old Zainab al-Hilli, who had been shot and beaten, believing she was dead as she lay on the ground close to the family car”.
Big published change.
Thought she had “staggered out into the road” in the path of exRAF man.
Maybe ….dragged out of car ??
James the Telegraph posted a new article on “Phillipe” a couple of hours ago. It claims it had an exclusive interview with him.
Anyway, in the Telegraph piece Phillipe says he saw no marks on the 7 year old at all. No wounds to the head, no gun wound, nothing. So presumably no blood to be seen on her either?
So why was he so certain she was dead? Did he, or suss RAF man not take her pulse at any point? I mean surely that’s what you’d do?
Telegraph also calls him a hiker, implies he was on foot and no mention of he and the two women being in a car.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9536990/France-shooting-hiker-describes-horror-of-murder-scene.html
“In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, Philippe D said that he had been hiking up the forest road of Combe-d’Ire near the village of Chevaline with two female friends when a cyclist suddenly came careering towards him”
AND FURTHER DOWN
“She was lying down and motionless, but she didn’t looked bashed up. I could see no blood, one couldn’t see where she had been hurt. She was a few yards in front of the car.
That one !
Just read it.
And a BIG “Hmmmmm” now.
Philippe D story has changed !!!!
Everyone I have read said he was driving up.
Going to recheck on the original about him seeing blood.
I swear it was there, but will re check.
Philippe D said: “She was lying down and motionless, but she didn’t looked bashed up. I could see no blood, one couldn’t see where she had been hurt. She was a few yards in front of the car.
“She didn’t respond to our calls. I clapped my hands but she didn’t react. I even said a few words in English as I saw the car was registered in Great Britain. But nothing happened. For me, she was dead.”
@James: Where did you read that? I can’t see it on the BBC website. It’s actually very hard to find much on the BBC website about it unless you look hard. You certainly wouldn’t stumble upon anything. The latest video does nothing more than discuss how little they know while pinning all hopes on the girl’s statement.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19562244
That’s the BBC one. The “close to family car” one
They also say
“The witness said he set out with two friends to go walking”
No mention that he was in a car (which I thought I had previously read in the first accounts).
Why I thought this was it contradicted “Fillion-Robin”.
He said he had not seen any other cars that afternoon. Just the BMW.
Notice they also did a reconstruction attended by Philippe D but not seemingly by RAFman. I read a comment on another forum that the locals contradicted rafman’s version of events.
There’s a Daily Mail article which says Phillipe and Co were driving.
I got the impression in earlier reports that Phillipe and Co were driving up that road, stopped when they saw the crazed/hero RAF cyclist coming down, then Phillipe (only) went back up there with the crazed/hero RAF cyclist. Phillipe then walked (walked?) down again to use his phone to call the cops.
So did the two women stay further down the road? And in a car or on foot? They must have had a car somewhere along the route.. or did the two women go up with RAF man and Phillipe too?
I don’t believe any one of them – Phillipe or mystery RAF. They’re all talking a pile of sh*te.
The French version….with “google translate” !
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/les-confidences-d-un-temoin-du-drame-de-chevaline-11-09-2012-2159640.php
Ce mercredi 5 septembre, Philippe D., 41 ans, avait prévu de faire une randonnée en compagnie de deux amies dans le massif des Bauges, sur ce versant qu’il ne connaissait pas encore. Ils projetaient de passer la nuit dans un chalet d’alpage. Mais alors qu’ils montaient tranquillement en voiture la route forestière de la Combe-d’Ire, sur les hauteurs du village de Chevaline, à deux pas du lieu-dit du Martinet
This Wednesday, September 5, Philip D., age 41, had planned to go hiking with two friends in the Bauges on this side he did not know yet. They planned to spend the night in a mountain hut. But then they rode quietly in the forest road car of the Combe d’Ire on the heights of the village of Horses, close to the place called the Martinet,
MAYBE, I am getting the “Road car” mixed up with “car route” ???
Anyone good with Le French ??? Clearly not me !!!
“en voiture”
Is “by car” surely.
And “rode” canot be mistaken with “walked”.
Can it ?
I think phony Phillipe has been brought into the mix to divert away from rafman. It’s the ones they don;t mention who I think are the most significant ie the dead nuke cyclist and rafman. The former hardly gets a mention compared to the others, and the latter they just want to fade away.
No names, no photos …not even ONE photo of the dead cyclist, nor of Saad’s wife and mother in law. What other high profile murder hasn’t had full sets of photos of all victims splashed over the press? Yet, other than just two pics of Saad, there hasn;t been one other photo of any of them involved.
The Telegraph article doesn’t contain anything new, all the details were already released by the French newspapers earlier today eg
http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/les-confidences-d-un-temoin-du-drame-de-chevaline-11-09-2012-2159640.php and http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2012/09/11/temoignage-j-ai-eu-peur-que-l-assassin-soit-encore-sur-les-lieux
In fact, the Torygraph article could very well just be a (bad) translation of the French articles, which would explain why they have Phillipe D on foot instead of in his car, along with his companions, on their way up the mountain to the start of their hike.
And it’s in the 2nd article he is quoted as seeing blood on the ex-RAF-man’s hands… not in the UK press, I believe, at least not yet.
@James: The difference between the ex-RAF cyclist story and the Philippe D. story is because this is two different occasions. The two stories are consistent: First the cyclist finds the girl moving towards him, puts her in the rescue position and runs for help. He was clearly aware that she was in a bad state, though he did not necessarily know what was wrong with her, even though newspapers naturally (under the circumstances, as he hasn’t been available for interviews) presented it as if he did know that. Then he returns with Philippe D. and both come to the conclusion that she has died in the meantime. Philippe D. now does give interviews, so we learn that it wasn’t actually visible what had happened to her. Which I guess is pretty good news as it probably means that her skull is fractured as in slightly cracked rather than deformed.
Dragging her out of the car is not necessary for explaining things, doesn’t seem to make all that much sense anyway, and would be slightly tricky to reconcile with the intriguing fact that all the car doors were locked.
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Interesting yank chatter
Re: ‘British’ family shot in France were Iraqi,..
maybe the family was “escaping” to sweden
swedish lady was to guide them into country
random killed biker was also to go
all for protection
raf biker: spying on them, or spotter for shooters
trajectory of bullets would be interesting
were the shooters snipers and ground force combined?
bump and suggest pin
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23454622
in addition to above
were gonna turn over proof, or whatever that
all the fuel rods are shit
fukushima meltdown
maybe even that “someone” was actually sending iran “meltdown rods”
fully flawed, maybe reject scrap
think about it bomb their stuff, or if they are lagit in only wanting nuke electricity
sell bumm stuff and let them trash their own country
kind of a suxnet one two punch
bum software to exploit the flaws in the product
maybe the ariel spying was to confirm that japan, a formitable economic player (now train wrecked)who used the same stuff got f’d over
way too many questions, and no answers
stay tuned same bat time, same bat channel
Family distress. You can’t ask for pics I doubt.
BUT
If Frenchie walked (3Km) then no one could have passed him for sometime.
And Fillion-Robin was right
….and no one passed Raffers (but there is another route in his direction looking at an OS map posted on here, which makes for the luckiest carjacker in the history of man !!!)
Or he drove.
Which means the “press” are playing silly buggers.
But no one could have passed Frenchie (for a lesser time)
And Fillion-Robin was wrong.
With carjacker still the luckiest one in the history of man !!!)
Next we’ll have “Joe the gape crusher” spotting a motorbike going crosscountry …and that will be our man !!!
But he’ll never be found…of course.
…or “someone” will fatal slash his nack whilst shaving…leaving a full confession (and how he hated BMW’s) !!!!
@Dopey: I guess that from the point of view of the police, the two cyclists are genuinely and quite legitimately of lesser importance because they already have a pretty good idea what they were doing there and why. Of course we, as the general public, want to know this as well. But I have an inkling that even if the perpetrators are identified (the prosecutor reportedly is optimistic after reviewing speed camera footage and such), and even in the unlikely event that they are tried and convicted, we will never learn these details.
The prosecutor is quite credibly giving the impression that he absolutely wants to clear up the murder of the family. But I doubt that he wants to clear up anything that may touch national security in Britain and France, including potential misconduct.
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
OZ chatter
First pictures of the bullet ridden car, tell me what’s wrong with that picture…
[link to http://www.mirror.co.uk]
Quoting: Aristide Torchia
First pictures of the bullet ridden car, tell me what’s wrong with that picture…
[link to http://www.mirror.co.uk]
Quoting: Aristide Torchia
I don’t get why the RAF spooky type needed to break a window. And with what? I have a window breaker on my Delta ti knife, but who carries a glass breaker? Early reports say 15 bullets were fired from an automatic, an Uzi??? This does not sound like 3 shots to 3 foreheads.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23293129
Obviously, RAF guy is the assassin.
How would the other cyclist get so far ahead of him that he didn’t hear them being shot, or he didn’t stumble across the gunman,
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
French chatter
From given information it looks like a cheap hired not well prepared/organized single (nobody kept watch) shooter with slight war experience to be able (technically & psychologically) to hit the target.
Looking forward to the reason, all the involved persons have quite interesting background, so many possibilities
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23580691
Maybe it was meant to seem an “amateur” work, because a professional would indicate a state behind the killing.
Well maybe I’m also too on GLP, but this case is really strange… The killer seems pro on one hand (headshots, no pity), and amateur on the other (witness girl still alive, without mention the little one, no alternative weapon…).
Quote:
Originally Posted by empee
Becoming clear to me that Phil D is being rolled out because RAFman’s bottle has crashed.
Philippe D interesting man such a lucky bunny on vacation a quite walking holiday with friends.
bad midsomer script : )
maybe it was true poor froggy.
maybe his first holiday since seeing the libyan colonel sodomized and butchered by a band of loyal brothers.
al qaeda,cia,mi6,sas and a few libyans for afp and the bbc.
another lucky man gabriel gatehouse
bbc hack man mr gatehouse or gatekeeper just so happened to be around in sirte with philippe d.
so cozy.
how many paypackets are these guys getting.
“I don’t think anyone questions, Mr. Kashkari, that you’re working hard. Our question is who you’re working for.”
-Rep. Dennis Kucinich
@dopey@nudi@golding@cozy@spooks@jamesandbumchums
Canadian chatter
Re: Sylvain Mollier
What does a metallurgist do? There’s one job description here, posted by the late Lachlan Cranswick:
[link to groups.google.com]
Cranswick also worked for the Canadian Neutron Beam Centre of the National Research Centre of Canada at Chalk River. He was described as a Materials scientist, and used X-ray crytallography and neutron beam reflectometry to study the nuclear reactor, among other things. He also worked to share knowledge and computer programs for such techniques with scientists from other countries.
For the record, the father of killer ex-colonel Russell Williams, who patented an improvement for zircaloy-2, was a PhD. metallurgist.
The tubing for nuclear fuel rods is metal. Metallurgy is the study of metal.
HA.
True on both counts.
And whilst we will never know, for me, I just want to piece “something” together that has “logic” before the deluge of crap starts from “up top” spoon fed from the Beeb !
At least them….when they have absolute “proof” that “one” or “both” of them have been selling secrets to Iran….and therefore we “must” clearly nuke them (as they have “The Secrets” now see !). I can eat my cold baked beanz, sat in a cave on the Isle of Skye, with the nuclear winter closing in…and say “The B*****ds ! with confidence !!!
Re….
Re: Sylvain Mollier
What does a metallurgist do?
I don’t know what he did…but I did read somewhere he had a long “leave” (Paternatity…but longer).
An ex wife (2 kids)
A new wife (1 new born I take it)
…and was at ease with life, he took bike rides.
So whatever he did….he sure was realxed about it !!!!
….and the pay must have been good !
“Meanwhile, tourists who stayed at the same campsite as the victims in the days leading up to their death, corroborated claims that Mr al-Hilli had frequently disappeared alone in his car without his family.
Dutch tourist Eli Draaisma, 64, from Veememdaal, in Holland, also said that a “strange” man of Eastern European appearance was scouring every corner of the Village Camping Europa site in Saint Jorioz, three hours before the al-Hilli’s left for a neighbouring campsite.
“He was dressed all in black, black trousers, black long-sleeved shirt,” he said. “He seemed to be searching the campsite, looking everywhere, but he didn’t look like a tourist. He definitely didn’t look like he belonged, he was not on a holiday.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9536990/France-shooting-hiker-describes-horror-of-murder-scene.html
The same or a different man described by other Dutch campers as unusual, dressed in a smart jacket of east European, possibly Balkan, appearance (the man that is, not the jacket)?
All these Dutch campers contradict the unnamed campsite manageress who said that all families leave the campsite at all sorts of times, and that the mysterious Balkan man was an Italian.
Oh well, the gendarmes have a description, a sighting of him driving like a bat out of hell and possibly a speed trap photo.
Expecting an arrest soon……
So, again, what evidence is there for anything reported by the MSM? Nothing. Is it just one big psy-op, for whatever deep reason? No interviews or names to witnesses of the alleged killings. No death certificates. (remember that Dr Kelly’s death cert was unsigned and invalid…)
if he exists the nerves of steel bulldog spirit lighting reflex’s mr RAF.
is a killer part of 2 or 3 man crew.
or a cleaner who fucked up and ran out of time.
israel ran electronic security at fuckiuppyshima.
japan will be on a slippery slope to death and infertility.
zirconium faulty rods.
lovely iran cash money
for french faulty rods.
why have heroic pilots of zion risk life and limb.
when you can get iran to nuke themselves.
“By way of zirconium deception, thou shalt do war
@James: Let’s apply Hanlon’s razor. The British press interviewed a French hiker who reported himself that he had trouble understanding what the ex-RAF man wanted from him. There are bound to be communication problems. Maybe the interview was conducted by someone who didn’t know the previous story very well. So the complicated fact “driving uphill to the car park, but actually stopping on the way after meeting the cyclist and then walking the last few metres” morphed into the simpler “hiking up the hill to the car park”. The French tend to say “aller [en voiture]”, i.e. “going [by car]” where one would more naturally say “driving” in English.
Actually the simplest explanation is another case of the press’s telephone game: The interview never happened, and they simply rephrased incorrectly from Le Dauphiné Libéré, which otherwise has all the same information and more and is promising even more for today’s print edition. This is how they put it there:
“[…] trois randonneurs haut-savoyards, qui montaient faire une randonnée. « En montant vers le parking du Martinet, nous avons croisé un homme qui descendait, avec du sang sur les mains », raconte Philippe D.”
“[…] three hikers from Haute Savoie, who were ascending doing/to do a hike. ‘In ascending towards the Martinet carpark, we met a man who was descending, with blood on his hands’, says Philippe D.”
As you can see, the first sentence is ambiguous, and the use of “ascending” in connection with hikers can easily mislead one into believing that they were already hiking at this point.
Now here is how Le Nouvel Observateur put it:
“Mais alors qu’ils montaient tranquillement en voiture la route forestière de la Combe-d’Ire, sur les hauteurs du village de Chevaline, à deux pas du lieu-dit du Martinet, ils ont vu surgir peu avant 16 heures un cycliste affolé […]”
“But when they were peacefully driving up the Combe-d’Ire forest road, above the village of Chevaline, two steps away from the place called Le Martinet, shortly before 4 pm they saw a headless cyclist appear […]”
Le Martinet is the car park and “two steps away” is a fixed expression as in a hotel two steps away from the beach – not a precise distance. Apparently the Telegraph didn’t choose its source very well when it decided to simply copy an interview claiming it as its own. The French newspapers are consistent with each other. This tells us how Le Dauphiné Libéré must be interpreted and hence that the Telegraph has it wrong.