My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@felix – Good fine. A better translation of:
He and the father worked every two technologies in “advanced” And they just go?
http://www.leprogres.fr/france-monde/2012/09/12/le-cycliste-tue-a-chevaline-un-pere-de-famille-discret-victime-oubliee
may be:
He (French cyclist) and the father (SAH) both work in ‘advanced technologies’ and they both happen go to the same place and are killed?
Good to see French journalists starting to question the remarkable coincidences and inconsistencies. Wish the UK press would stop being so accepting of what is being spouted by officials. I have not seen any further comment by them on the reported ’20 British military types’ who were on the scene within hours or the mysteries of the ‘ex RAF chap’ or the background of the French cyclist.
Listening to that original press conference again, the prosector says that when RAFman got to the scene he saw the 7 year old coming TOWARDS the car/towards him and she then fainted and he put her in the recovery position.
Anyone got a take on that?
According to RAF Man; “The Hillis’ eldest daughter, Zainab, staggered towards him, covered in blood, and collapsed at his feet.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/11/french-alps-shooting-cyclist-girl
But;
“Philippe D said: “She was lying down and motionless, but she didn’t looked bashed up. I could see no blood, one couldn’t see where she had been hurt. She was a few yards in front of the car.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9536990/France-shooting-hiker-describes-horror-of-murder-scene.html
Strange discrepancy about whetever there was blood on the girl or not !?
Am I right in saying that in some reports is was stated that the RAF Man had blood on him ?
This is also interesting;
“In France we have a national police force: the police. We also have gendarmes.
The police fall under the Ministry of Interior. Gendarmes fall under the Ministry of Defense (Defence).
Gendarmes, like soldiers, remain in uniform and live in a barrack and they hold military ranks like soldiers.
They keep law and order in the countryside and in towns (communes) of fewer than 20,000 inhabitants.
It was therefore the local gendarmerie which replied to Philippe D’s telephone call.
Now this is odd: Normally the gendarmerie hands over an investigation to the police. In this case they would have handed the investigation over to the police of the nearest big town – Annecy or Grenoble or even Lyon (Lyons).
But in this case they did not.
In other words, the case is being investigated by the Ministry of Defense and not the Ministry of Interior. Secrecy is thus ensured.”
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/
I still dont undertsand why the girl said she didnt know who was good guy and the bad guys! this suggests that someone she/they trusted turned?
A few people have asked why did the authorities reveal that the RAF guy was, in fact, an ex-RAF guy. Some people have said that this would give him an air of reliability and put him above suspicion. If the RAF guy is actually SAS or secret services, then maybe the authorities revealed that he was ex-RAF, because they feared that he may be identified by the press – and if it was discovered that he was ex-RAF, people might suspect the true nature of his involvement. By stating from the start that he was ex-RAF, they are reducing that sort of speculation.
Has anybody seen a photo of the alleged abandoned bicycle of Sylvan Mollier? Or even a description of the make/colour/gears/bars etc. Makes one wonder even more. A vital visual clue and memory jogger ignored. Why?
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/344512
Or (Telegaph, 6 sept, Gordon Rayner and Henry Samuel:
“his bike thrown into a corner of the car park. “
[Not related, but interesting – Daily Mirror Sept 7(Campsite): Dutch holidaymaker Sandy Rombout, 39, a customer service coordinator, said: “They seemed like a nice normal nice family, the kids were out playing outside the caravan and the dad came out and was showing the youngest how to ride her bike]
Was it Mollier’s bike? Has it been identified, eg by his wife?
@Dopey
My take on that? Made up story. Like much else relating to this story. Also reported in the Telegraph faithfully
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9527148/France-shooting-There-was-noise-I-was-scared-said-girl-who-hid-from-killers.html
@dopey – re:
Listening to that original press conference again, the prosector says that when RAFman got to the scene he saw the 7 year old coming TOWARDS the car/towards him and she then fainted and he put her in the recovery position.
Anyone got a take on that?
If we start from the premise that ‘ex RAF guy’ is much more than that then everything we have been told about him and his actions which were not witnessed by others is likely to be a part of a concocted cover up. I also find it unlikely that a small child who had been shot and hit so hard that her skull was fractured would be walking around.
What is corroborated if Phillippe D is reliable is that she was out of the car which was locked. No obvious explanation. Perhaps murderers pulled her out before killing others as a hostage to keep the others still.
Felix, I think on the original press conference they said Sylvain was found closer to the car than the bike was, and the bike was a little way from the car.
I’ve seen no pics of the bike, suggested location of the bike or suggested location of where exactly Sylvain was found.
If he just happened to be passing then you’d expect him and the bike to be somewhere still on the road after he was shot, not on the car park bit? Unless he left the bike and took off away on foot, but he’s hardly likely to run towards the car/gunman so should then surely have been further from the scene than right beside it?
@Nuid – And Philippe D wasn’t clear on why ex-RAf man hadn’t phoned 999/911
Apparently 112 works in France and all over Europe for emergency services.
I didn’t know that until I checked just now yet I go to France a lot and even lived there for 6 months.
Yes, Beezer, I’ve only been thinking of that recently. I wouldn’t have had a clue off the top of my head what the current emergency number is in France. I haven’t been there since 1996. Even though I have family in the Haute Savoie area. I don’t fly. Since 1999.
At that press conf the prosecutor says about rafman “he alerted firefighters and the gendarme were also alerted”…..
So two calls, not one?
Or just an error on the translator’s part?
Maybe it was whoever RAFman phoned that alerted “firefighters and the gendarme”. But journalists attending a press conference and depending on translation will probably have at least some mix-ups in their notes.
“he alerted firefighters and the gendarme were also alerted”
Is that a direct quote from Maillaud? Or was it reported?
Good excuses, but RAFman is reported to live part time in the UK, part time in France, so he should know the emergency numbers well enough. (If he exists at all, that is…)
“so he should know the emergency numbers well enough”
IF that’s who he phoned. But maybe he phoned a friend/contact in secret services. Even someone retired. And that’s why it’s now being said that Philippe D was the first to phone 112. And why ex-RAF man is not a suspect.
Press conference underway – tweets from Ms L
https://twitter.com/leilalamnaouer
again concerning RAFman who is for me a main suspect or let’s say the only clearly visible part of the iceberg.
don’t forget he said he was crossed by a car and a motorbike.
If RAFman is such an important witness (if he is a witness!) Maillaud would have been searching for these vehicles.
And if it was true RAFman would have been killed on the road. In any ways.
But all the story around RAFman is not true.
The story was burried from the start.
RAFman is no witness.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Qp&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1366&bih=665&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=google+maps+annecy+car+park&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=car+park&hnear=0x478b8ffa1c0551c9:0x42781681620534ba,Annecy,+France&sa=X&ei=papQUL65FYST0QWUzoAI&ved=0CIcBELYD
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2201476/Alps-shooting-French-hiker-called-emergency-services-speaks-horror-scene-time.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
There is a new suspect in the game brought in by police and press (read link). Haydar thaher Al saffar, the mentally I’ll sun of the Swedish-IRAQI elderly killed woman, is said to have threatened the life of his parents more than once.
Personally I believe that a mentally I’ll person cannot organise such a well planned massacre and that he is likely another joker brought into the game by secret services to push the focus into the wrong direction.
@felix Press conference underway – tweets from Ms L
https://twitter.com/leilalamnaouer
Damn inconsiderate of her to witter away in French ;-p
. D’après Le Messager, les deux hommes se connaissaient et étaient licenciés du même club de vélo, à Ugine
Forgotten detail…So the two cyclists knew each other an were members of the same club…. allegedly. Has this been noted? If any of the whole circus is true, Inspecteur Knackeur and the press, French and UK, might be making enquiries dans le Velo Club….[not]…regaring the mysterious, and perhaps non-existent RAFman.
See also
http://www.zinfos974.com/Haute-Savoie-Qui-a-tire-sur-la-famille-anglaise_a46942.html?com
@Ferret
@Badger
LOL that’s very funny, that actually had me laughing out loud.
Are you seriously suggesting that Anders7777 was derailing this thread (by posting useful and interesting info from other threads) whereas James, Anton, Bluebird & crew were not (by flooding this thread with endless discussion of irrelevant topics)?
Good one!!!
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Yeas a VERY good one.
I can spot the shills here miles away, and I have pointed out time after time that the MO of these pro shills is to swamp threads with crap.
I have mostly been posting HARD DATA, with the odd humour break.
Yes humour and SATIRE, really get’s on the Oxbridge Smiley’s People wannabes’ tits!
Great way to flush them out – OOPS! I’m giving away my secrets!
I also make a point FWIW of NOT reading the latest crap on here before posting, because I don’t want my noggin subconsciously swayed one way or another by these pros (most of whole are laughably USELESS and as SEE THROUGH as the Invisible Man) – so, I’m glad for your support.
This place is so terminally COZY isn’t it?
Are you seriously suggesting that Anders7777 was derailing this thread (by posting useful and interesting info from other threads) whereas James, Anton, Bluebird & crew were not (by flooding this thread with endless discussion of irrelevant topics)?
PRECISELY
And quite a few more to add to that list.
Thank you.
@nudi
@Bajer
Well said
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I always said you were suss.
Thanks for confirming!
@Dopey – guess the Daily Telegraph will translate the limited hang-out accurately tonight. Bing or Google translate ought to give a vague idea what the narrative is. Haven’t looked yet.
Just woke up Anders?
Could anybody please find out whether or not Sylvain mollier was a Muslim? This answer would be supportive for my theory that al-hilli, hicheur and Mollier were perhaps a team since there are times in their regional lives, works and studies were they easily could have met each other. My theory is also that hicheur became perhaps a whistleblower in jail and was released because of whistleblowing and telling names of brothers.
@badger
@Ferret, I am saying that there are a lot of people flooding the thread with crap. The vast majority of the material that is copied and pasted is irrelevant, difficult to read, and rarely sourced correctly.
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You have reading or comprehension problems, do you? Bit hard to follow, is it?
You say the vast majority is irrelevant.
ERGO
The small minority IS RELEVANT!!!
Would you rather MISS the nuggets, hidden amidst the chaff and chatter, eh?
It seems you would.
If so, and it IS SO, then you are a total joke and shouldn’t be sleuthing here at ALL.
This is 101 stuff.
Why do you think NSA has CARNIVORE and ECHELON running 24×365?
Answers on a postcard PLEASE!
This place and other forums is a microcosm of those two systems – if you cannot handle the sifting, get out of the war room.
@bluebird I thought he was released because of the time he’d been in jail from being arrested? ie he served half of the 5 year sentence so didn’t get out any earlier than anyone else might?
Leila Lamnaouer @leilalamnaouer
Aura besoin réentendre témoin cycliste UK, son parcours à vélo #tuerie #chevaline
So they need to revisit the RAF man’s witness statement!