My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@mark
Neighbours have said that he was in fear of his safety before he left the UK.
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Sayanim say that, media whore Jack Saltman.
Further, if it was true he was in fear of his safety (he wasn’t this is a pack of lies, part of the Tavistock fairytale) – if he was scared and not an asset of SIS, he’d stay put in Claygate and let the local plod know of his concerns (but he wouldn’t do that, because MI5/6 were running him), and he WOULDN’T travel 12 hours to the remote Alps, then sit waiting for an hour surrounded by his family – this speaks of a man who felt safe and protected, probably by his handler RAFman, who betrayed him, by either gross incompetence, or malice aforethought.
@anders
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Been at it all day have we. Take it you don’t have a day job?
LOL.
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Yes I have and yes I do- we women can multitask.
And thank you.
Question… Strikes me it might well be possible to produce “clone” guns these days. If very precise machining was used could you construct multiple weapons that all gave a “signature” of one gun? If so, has there ever been any reports of this being done?
I’m just wondering for my own curiosity here
Here are a couple of links of photos from a helicopter taken by Roland Hoskins who took 1 of the photos of witness Sylvie Lecoeur
http://www.vg.no/uploaded/image/bilderigg/2012/09/11/1347370286732_735.jpg
http://f3.blick.ch/img/incoming/origs2027015/7795565050-w644-h429/Annecy-blutbad.jpg
I am a newbie and have been reading all your post but did not see a very special proof that all is a cover up from the begining.
The first picture of the car that appeared in the media was this one.
http://www.estrelladigital.es/mundo/policia-frances-cerca-localidad-Chevaline_ESTIMA20120906_0008_8.jpg
If no one moved the car before the investigation on-site… why is the car in a totally different place?:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00333/112636811_fr_333658d.jpg
@rickitarr
Re the tailgate of the car and with the 7 year old being found out of the car, if infact the RAF man was sat in the front seat, his wife mother/swede and the two children would have had to sit in the back? bit cramped would the 7 year old have got in the boot whilst it was parked for a bit of fun, when the shooting happened she made a run for it and that is why the tailgate is open!
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Don’t think it can be opened by a child from the inside, for safety reasons. Unless quick-thinking SAH popped it open by a remote switch from the front, if that model has one. Seems unlikely to me as it would all have gone down too quickly, seems SAH was concentrating on a panic reverse, and if he thought Zaineb could escape from the rear, he’d run over her anyway…
@anders
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Sayanim say that, media whore Jack Saltman.
Further, if it was true he was in fear of his safety (he wasn’t this is a pack of lies, part of the Tavistock fairytale) – if he was scared and not an asset of SIS, he’d stay put in Claygate and let the local plod know of his concerns (but he wouldn’t do that, because MI5/6 were running him), and he WOULDN’T travel 12 hours to the remote Alps, then sit waiting for an hour surrounded by his family – this speaks of a man who felt safe and protected, probably by his handler RAFman, who betrayed him, by either gross incompetence, or malice aforethought.
…………………..
12 hours? Is that how long it takes? …….and poor him with a bad back too :-p
I’m beginning to doubt that there is a D-notice in effect here. The only source for there being a D-notice in place is one anonymous post on Indymedia. After one week, I’m sure that more info about a D-notice would have been leaked, or that international media would have reported something that the British media couldn’t. We also have to look at the restrictions that were mentioned in this supposed D-notice. “No reporting of the connection with the nuclear industry, and no reporting of possible Israeli involvement.” These restrictions have been breached on numerous occasions. The Sunday People’s front page headline declared a link between al-Hilli and nukes. At the time, I thought that maybe the dam was about to burst, and The People just decided to run with it first to get sales – but the story was bullshit. If there was a D-notice in place restricting reporting of links to the nuclear industry, The People wouldn’t have risked the ire of Whitehall to run with that crap. Mossad have also been mentioned in a number of reports – this would not happen if there was a D-notice in place – unless an editor had some very strong evidence and made a decision to run with story in the public interest. Here are some reports where Mossad is mentioned:
“Perhaps more far-fetched still, Israel’s notoriously uncompromising state security agency, Mossad, is said to have shown an interest in Al-Hilli, although nobody has a clue why.” src: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/an-alpine-murder-mystery–why-were-the-alhillis-shot-dead-8125292.html
“The French police are also having to steer a course through a minefield of rumours, conflicting reports and wild conspiracy theories, including the suggestion that Saad was a spy who had recently visited Tehran and the massacre was a hit by Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency implicated in attacks on Iranian scientists.” src: http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/scotland/the-task-of-unravelling-the-mystery-of-who-slaughtered-the-al-hilli-family-and-why-is-proving-complex-1-2514865
“It has also been claimed that the killings have all the hallmarks of action by Israel’s assassins in Mossad but Western experts believe it unlikely that they would try to murder children.” src: http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/344888/Each-victim-shot-twice
Then again – maybe I’m just a shill, or in the employ of MI5 and I’m just trying to poison the well. Although the British secret services don’t usually recruit people from my part of the world, and my Republican grandfather would turn in his grave if he thought I was “taking the queen’s shilling!”
Bloody hell. I push off for a few days and the blog explodes. During which time I have been getting this story, with half an ear, on BBC R4 and nowhere else. And it has sounded completely insane from the start. Two neat headshots for each customer? Everyone tidied up and put back in the car and the doors locked? Or maybe shot through the (open?) windows (accurately)? Girl outside wandering around, shot (inaccurately) and then beaten? Sweet FA on the French cyclist – thanks, Craig and others, for more details – or the seven shots he was awarded. The BBC sure likes to keep us guessing.
@ Anders 777:
es, odd isn’t it? The same phrase appearing simultaneously in at least three mainstream UK media sources. So… where did it come from? Did they all simultaneously make up the same bull? (Some coincidence!!!) Ditto with Skorpion – several papers simultaneously “making up” the exact same story. What a strange coincidence! (I think not.)
Congratulations on your discovery that newsdesks are heavily reliant on news agencies. Such as AFP, Reuters, AP. Whose reports are often c&p’d entire or in part. When a story breaks, they are unlikely to have a man on the ground, and even later, it makes more sense to use an agency than to send a hack out to spend a week comatose on fine wine.
@dopey
Yes I have and yes I do- we women can multitask.
And thank you.
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Me too, my speciality!
You’re welcome!
@dopey
12 hours? Is that how long it takes? …….and poor him with a bad back too :-p
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I read 11 hours actually.
And the bad back, last thing you want is a tiring car journey (even though beemers are comfortable) and a dodgy caravan bed.
More Hansel and Gretel (wink).
Yes – the roof rack is one of the more straightforward puzzles. We know Saad al-Hilli had a bike (so several news reports quoting fellow campers state) so is it that that was ripped off the roof damaging the rack? And why and where is it now and how did it leave the scene. It also makes the hour spent in the woods more mysterious – if someone had used the bike that would go some way to explaining things (I think someone mentioned Saad al-Hilli teaching his older daughter to ride a bike – but was it this bike or a smaller one for a child is not mentioned) but if it was still on the roof when the family was shot what were they doing apart from twiddling their thumbs. Surely after 30 maybe 40 minutes they would give up on any planned meeting and try some other time especially if it was something clandestine then the most obvious reason for the other party to not show up is that they had been rumbled. And of course why the whole family deep in the woods (and at least one of the woman in a long skirt) we seem to be no closer to being explained.
The only witness I really trust is the builder in Chevaline – he has no good reason to lie and French builders tend to be independent and honest in everything except estimating costs and completion times 🙂 So I believe that no car followed the Al-Hillis from Chevaline. So maybe the assassin(s) were waiting or following who they were to meet…. but somehow the French cyclist Sylvain Mollier at the location does not seem quite right despite his interesting work. Everything seems a little … well staged with some of the participants not properly rehearsed. Maybe one or more of the dead were moved from somewhere else. There seemed a lack of blood (news reports showed only specks on some gravel – of course some may have been removed for forensic work but still…and now we have a witness saying he saw no blood on the older girl) especially given the girl was shot in the shoulder and lived so would have bled and kept bleeding. The hour the car was there I think may suggest further travel (by bike??- ok I am contradicting myself now – maybe a walk) to the real meeting spot and back. Or a long meeting suggesting negotiation or persuasion not a quick exchange or transfer… and wouldn’t a dead drop be used for a simple transfer.
So the circus transfers en masse to Claygate. The local journo also wants a share of the action..been in touch with Ms L in Annecy…
https://twitter.com/Laura_Elmbridge
See also the tweeted link there about Murdered man’s brother ‘not seen for days’ at Chessington flat Where is he??
Decode this if one can….
“We are also working with our partners, both locally and internationally, to manage the longer term impact of this tragic incident.”
http://www.surrey.police.uk/news/news-stories/full-news-story/article/1239/statements-from-senior-french-and-surrey-police-officers
thanks to Laura Proto twitter for that link.
You can call me silly if you like but do we know what Saad al-Hilli looks like. With this massive story about him I have only ever seen 1 photo. He is looking down and to his right. I challenge anyone to post another from any time in his life.
In any regular story you immediately get all sorts of photos. Here we appear to have just 1. This 1 photo could be of anyone. Would make his extraction very easy. We have no photos of anyone else in the family either!!
@Straw44berry
spot on.
Strawberry I think it’s weird too. I think there’s two pics of Saad. I recall seeing another of him somewhere where he’s a bit younger. It was on a site comparing him with his brother, saying they looked nothing alike.
As for the rest of the family I find it most odd that there have been none of the usual family photos wheeled out. Not even one of any of them, including Sylvian.
Highly unusual.
I see both Sylvain and Saad have profiles on Linkedin….however….no details on there and zero connections. Someone I reckon has only just created those profiles, probably someone random with too much time on their hands, or someone who wants to check out who visits their profiles? God knows. I’m surprised that Saad in particular didnt have a linkedin profile. That site is now so popular for business people.
@komodo
Congratulations on your discovery that newsdesks are heavily reliant on news agencies. Such as AFP, Reuters, AP. Whose reports are often c&p’d entire or in part. When a story breaks, they are unlikely to have a man on the ground, and even later, it makes more sense to use an agency than to send a hack out to spend a week comatose on fine wine.
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No congratulations needed, ther are not RELIANT at all, they are simpley disseminating the wishes of the WHORES who emply them.
The main MSM papers worldwide are just social conditioning conduits, fed crap by leaks from Govt/Spooks, from PR parasites for Big Corps(tm), and so on. They are culpable, as discussed last night. And who owns the agencies? The Rothschilds, the Rockefeller etc, Mordor Murdoch bringing up the rear. The days of real reporting have long gone, that is why the likes of Pilger and his fine ilk can never get the publishing they deserve. Newspapers and TV studios are filled with more spooks than almost any other whore’s profession.
“I hate journalists. There is nothing in them but tittering jeering emptiness. They have all made what Dante calls the Great Refusal. The shallowest people on the ridge of the earth.”
Yup I found just a couple of uses of the other ‘younger’ photo, quite poor quality with a tiffany-style lamp in the background.
Saad did have a profile as I checked when they released his name, it had him down an aerospace consultant!
Anders7777777777: “I hate journalists. There is nothing in them but tittering jeering emptiness. They have all made what Dante calls the Great Refusal. The shallowest people on the ridge of the earth.”
And I slowly begin to hate you cause you’re so filled with paranoia that I surely hope you’re joining som kind of medicationprogramme
“No congratulations needed, ther are not RELIANT at all, they are simpley disseminating the wishes of the WHORES who emply them.”
LOL
Komodo said that newsdesks are reliant on news agencies. And he’s 100% right. Lay off the “I know everything” attitude, Anders7777. You don’t, anymore than anyone else here.
You don’t know for example, that ex-RAF man was involved in the killings, although you try to pretend that you do. You don’t have a special channel to the truth, although your prancing and posing around here makes it sound like you think you’re God’s gift. You’re not.
“And I slowly begin to hate you cause you’re so filled with paranoia that I surely hope you’re joining som kind of medication programme”
Don’t blame you. He’s filled with more than paranoia. Try superiority.
“I hate journalists. There is nothing in them but tittering jeering emptiness. They have all made what Dante calls the Great Refusal. The shallowest people on the ridge of the earth.”
they are in fact lower forms of life than the mi6,mossad,cia kill teams.
they just love chillin in places like chatham house,being wined and dined.
drugs,food,booze and sometimes whores on tap.
but they need that cos it is such a stressful job.
they have a nice lifestyle wife and happy family big mortgage it ain’t easy suckin satan’s tit.
unless your frank gardener then it gets real easy.
@ricki yes he does, but it has no connections. Sylvain has one too- with no connections.
@strawberry and @felix
By extraction, I presume you mean this is a faked death? And SAH continues being run by SIS or whomever. And Sylvain is extracted too. If so, the oppo are far cleverer than any of us on forums such as this, and I don’t see them being fooled for one minute. And if they are NOT clever enough to come up with a faked death production realisation on their own, they only need to look here. Which is why this place, GLP, Icke etc, is being swamped with misinfo/disinfo.
But…
Cat.Is.Already.Out.Of.Bag.
@nuid.
“No congratulations needed, ther are not RELIANT at all, they are simpley disseminating the wishes of the WHORES who emply them.”
LOL
Komodo said that newsdesks are reliant on news agencies. And he’s 100% right. Lay off the “I know everything” attitude, Anders7777. You don’t, anymore than anyone else here.
You don’t know for example, that ex-RAF man was involved in the killings, although you try to pretend that you do. You don’t have a special channel to the truth, although your prancing and posing around here makes it sound like you think you’re God’s gift. You’re not.
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Ooooh, touched a nerve have I, with your idiotic pronouncements on RAFman just above?
Put your handbag away dear, don’t make more of a prat of yourself than you already have!
I have a hind like a rhinoceros, you gotta do better than THAT to shut me up mate!
So nice and cozy here, and we don’t want our comfiness upset, eh???
LOL!!!
“Which is why this place, GLP, Icke etc, is being swamped with misinfo/disinfo.”
LOL
About 12 full time spooks all wasting their time posting here and at the three or four other forums you’re basically running ‘single handed’. Even though most of what you’re posting is c and p from one to the other.
LOL … goodnight
@nuid.
Do you still stand by the paragraph you scribbled on the back of a fag packet, below???
@nuid sez:
+++++
*****It might explain why he’s not being treated as a suspect, even though he was first on the scene. If he called what he considered the scene of an “execution” in to a friend/contact in secret services, he’d probably be considered above suspicion.*****
+++++
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LOL, yes he’s completely uninvolved in any of this, happens upon 4 people slaughtered in the remote woods, a 7 year old with a bullet wound and head injuries, barely alive, and our hero RAFman thinks to himself (instead of immediately calling French 999):
“Bother, bother and thrice bother! I’ll better call old Harry Palmer at Legoland, he’ll know what to do! Sod the French Police!”
@Amders
have no idea, but it makes as much sense as the official narrative. But we read that permission has been given to return bodies to the UK…
http://www.lemessager.fr/Actualite/Chablais/2012/09/05/article_messager_1623629.shtml