My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Well day of the jackal used afaik hand made mercury tipped bullets.
He missed de Gaulle’s head, and being single shot le chacal dies at the hands of a French detective 🙂 No remote sniper fire as casings apparently found in and out of the Beemer. Though I suppose the initial SAH bullet COULD have been a sniper, to disable a getaway. Rest of team them mops up. Only the French will know and their story is as reliable as George best giving up booze! 🙂
@nuid
Well why didn’t you saaayyy!!! 🙂
Ok truce. I’ll just go order a Guinness in your honour! 🙂
“Exactly Nuid, Miss the old viking-days when you – high on psilocobin mushrooms – could enter the english or irish coasts for the simple joy of killing, eating and raping.”
Yes, there was a lot of that going on. 🙂
And one of your ancestors left something behind him!
I’m in Dublin. Founded as a Viking settlement around 841AD.
“Well why didn’t you saaayyy!!!”
I didn’t get a chance, with you talking! Go easy on the Guinness if you’re due to be posting later 😉
It also emerged on Monday that only one gun was used in the attack.
…
Officials told reporters in Annecy that ballistics tests found 25 spent cartridges left at the scene came from a 7.65mm calibre semi-automatic pistol.
BBC 12 Sept 17:34
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19577517
Italian Beretta pistols are often used by Mossad. The small Beretta is easy to conceal and can be loaded with reduced-charge cartridges in order to increase the effectiveness of the silencer. This adaptation of the Beretta model 70 was issued to members of Mossad’s assassination teams (known as Kidon)
Ultimate Spy by H Keith Milton (on Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/mossad765
There is no doubt this was an ambush but something didnt got to plan!
yup phillip d and mr safe hands recovery position hero raf should be sweating in a cell until further notice.
instead of being sucked off by head froggie cop who is clearly shit scared of mi6.
and the new bond movie ain’t even out yet.
this is the brutal reality these killers are less like bond and more charles manson.
or in this case charles mason crossed with norman wisdom.
the lost 10 mins was norman calling mr grimsdale askin what he should do with all the bodies.
@anders
@Nuid
I’m a transgender
………………………..
You have to go one better dont you Anders ;-p
Danes, Irish, French, Brits….its a proper little international spooks convention in here….
If the report is true, it was reported that Saad left the campsite that day at noon or just after. If he did, where did they go? That’s three (almost four maybe) missing hours until they turned up at that carpark.
I’m surprised no one has yet come forward to have their minute of fame by saying they saw the family that day somewhere before they were killed.
@recog
Exactly Nuid, Miss the old viking-days when you – high on psilocobin mushrooms – could enter the english or irish coasts for the simple joy of killing, eating and raping.
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LOL – now you’re talking! 🙂 I’m from Mayo, mix of Celt and French, part of the family line comes from the French shipwrecked off Mayo in 1798, sneaking around Ireland to attack England from the rear missus! 🙂
The fact that the family had been out for the day and that he had his family with him at the meet tells me that it wasnt previously arranged but may have been more dropped on him! without a sat nav this must have been a place they had met before!
how old is everyone here ? just wondering..
I didn’t get a chance, with you talking! Go easy on the Guinness if you’re due to be posting later
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(George Best mode ON) I promise to go easy 🙂
I really did kiss the Blarney stone, upside down, lol 🙂
50 yrs old here, just waiting to see some interesting information. Stop squabbling and start searching.
Already with the lone nut scenario?
Yawn.
VERY LATEST: Tuesday at 20.40.
This is the kind of gun that was used.
Please note: this is not the murder weapon but it is the kind of gun that was used. And it is official.
It is a Czech-made CZ50 7.65 mm, 8 rounds magazine capacity gun.
The CZ50 was manufactured in the 1940s and manufacture stopped in 1983. It was used by the Czech police, but considered too light for the Czech army.
You can buy it for about $100 these days.
The CZ50 used in this shooting was an ‘old’ model.
Will a sophisticated, modern and deadly secret service use such a gun? I do not think so. I think we are dealing here with a local nut case.
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/ (Thanks to Dopey for the link.)
I have a post awaiting moderation about 7.65’s being standard Mossad issue, though I don’t think it will be news to anyone here…
@flyinglow
how old is everyone here ? just wondering..
…………….
twelve
@flyinglow
how old is everyone here ? just wondering..
………………..
Sixteen. Honest.
Interesting new article in the Daily Mail following today’s briefings:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202149/France-shooting-No-motives-suspects-investigation-TEN-YEARS.html
It goes a lot further than previously on various aspects discussed here. For example:
on ‘ex RAF chap’:
Suggesting inconsistencies in the testament of the mystery British witness, Mr Maillaud said: ‘We’ll need to listen to the British cyclist again – to check his timings. He’ll have to get back on his bike and re-do the journey.’
on espionage links:
Horrifying details of the attack on Zainab, whom Mr Maillaud described as a ‘key witness’, emerged as police also revealed that those killed were ‘no ordinary tourists’.
Briefings by detectives suggested that at least one of the victims could have had links to those working in international espionage or the criminal underworld.
on the weapon:
Referring to the gun used, the source introduced the possibility of state security groups being involved, saying: ‘A 7.65mm is definitely an old-fashioned calibre but it can still be used by some special forces.’
on Zainab:
‘She (Zainab) suffered multiple facial injuries that caused two subdural hematomas and a fractured orbital bone,’ said a police source.
A subdural hematoma is a traumatic brain injury which can be life threatening, while the orbital bone surrounds the eyes.
The source said there was no indication as to the extent of the damage to Zainab’s vision long term, but one eye was seriously damaged.
The revelations are not only further evidence of the cruelty shown by the criminal responsible, but suggest that Zaibad will have very little to offer detectives when she eventually gives an official witness statement.
The multiple injuries suffered by Zainab combined with her being found outside of the car suggest that they were inflicted on her while the others were alive. Perhaps the murderers wanted something from SAH and used her to try to extract it.
Mods must be sleeping… I’ll re-post as two separate posts, should get through…
Part 1
It also emerged on Monday that only one gun was used in the attack.
…
Officials told reporters in Annecy that ballistics tests found 25 spent cartridges left at the scene came from a 7.65mm calibre semi-automatic pistol.
BBC 12 Sept 17:34
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19577517
Part 2
Italian Beretta pistols are often used by Mossad. The small Beretta is easy to conceal and can be loaded with reduced-charge cartridges in order to increase the effectiveness of the silencer. This adaptation of the Beretta model 70 was issued to members of Mossad’s assassination teams (known as Kidon).
Ultimate Spy by H Keith Milton (on Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/mossad765
Ah Marilyn the self confessed crime writer trying to look for publishers for the “who killed Diana” book ……nice try Marilyn
This is the kind of gun that was used.
Please note: this is not the murder weapon but it is the kind of gun that was used. And it is official.
It is a Czech-made CZ50 7.65 mm, 8 rounds magazine capacity gun.
The CZ50 was manufactured in the 1940s and manufacture stopped in 1983. It was used by the Czech police, but considered too light for the Czech army.
You can buy it for about $100 these days.
The CZ50 used in this shooting was an ‘old’ model.
Will a sophisticated, modern and deadly secret service use such a gun? I do not think so. I think we are dealing here with a local nut case.
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/
You have to go one better dont you Anders ;-p
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You are sharp, Ms Marple, one broken nose, foot, eye, and umpteen scars to prove it 🙂
Seriously, I am a published author, with my expertise on the fields we are talking about, the spooks, the masons, the cryptocracy, and all the rest. I sold my book to holly wood, but the project is stalled, temporarily. So have free time to use some of the knowledgs I’ve picked up along the way. I’m not perfect, nobody is, but I like to shake the tree – see what falls out. Truth really is stranger than fiction, I’ve seen it over and over and over 🙂
54
“Will a sophisticated, modern and deadly secret service use such a gun? I do not think so. I think we are dealing here with a local nut case.” – from the link posted by Ferret
A ‘sophisticated, modern and deadly’ secret service could well try to hide their activity by using unexpected weapons, surely?
And from the same link
“The dark green 4×4 the RAF guy apparently saw was one of the vehicles used by the National Office of Forests: l’Office national des Forets.”
Which possibly rules it out as suspect. UNLESS the same secret service “borrowed” it to be less conspicuous? thinking that locals would be used to seeing them around?
seems your all wrong … its Haydar Thaher 🙂
Will a sophisticated, modern and deadly secret service use such a gun? I do not think so. I think we are dealing here with a local nut case.
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Of course that is what they *want* you to think.
seems your all wrong … its Haydar Thaher
LMAO
😀
No Offense but if I had to pick anyone in here to be spook it would be Anders!
“Seriously, I am a published author, with my expertise on the fields we are talking about, the spooks, the masons, the cryptocracy, and all the rest.”
Well now, Anders, that IS interesting.
Congratulations. 🙂
“seems your all wrong … its Haydar Thaher”
Huh?
A newly released picture of Saad Al-Hilli who was gunned down in the French Alps
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200388/Did-French-Alps-murder-victims-secret-work-space-satellite-contract-make-prime-assassination-target.html
Obvious shoop
@anders
Truth really is stranger than fiction, I’ve seen it over and over and over
………………………………..
Yes, truth is. Visiting someone in jail about 20 years ago I was introduced to another con- Gadaffi’s right hand man allegedly. He was jailed for an attempt on the PM’s life. I wish I could remember his name to google him now, because he had such a tale to tell. Ont thing he said was the UK secret services set him up. All I can say on here was the nature of my job then allowed me to do some checking he asked me to (offered me a lot of money to too0….and he was right. I ever dared tell him…too scared. I just said I hadnt been able to check.
@Nuid
“seems your all wrong … its Haydar Thaher”
Huh?
http://www.giyf.com/
Oh … everything always gets laid at the door of schizophrenics. I’ve known two of them – paranoid schizophrenics both – and they were more afraid than dangerous.