My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Mmm lots of talk about crime scene like a film set or CSI … my experience of crime scenes is that they are bloodier and altogether nastier (other body fluids and stuff leak apart from blood) .. not the gore by Dior of those CSI farces. I’ve never seen a dead body in fiction on film /tv that actually looks dead .. the colouration and mottling and they way facial features change in a way actors cannot reproduce even shortly after death cannot be done with a little white or blue makeup. I was brought to mind the scene in Capricorn One where one of the astronauts mentioned some ersatz theme park ride or experience to try to convey to his family that the Mars mission was all a earth based simulation. Maybe that is what these witnesses are consciously or unconsciously trying to convey.
But what didn’t he say?
No mention of Phillipe D , 4×4 or motorbike.
Sky have re-published 3 mins of interview but BBC live broadcast was much longer (with a ‘BBC exclusive’ tag on screen top left, blacked out on Sky site).
He did confirming moving both bodies , sylvian moller and the 7yr old as both were in front of the BMW who’s wheels were spinning. Presumably spinning backwards in reverse otherwise the BMW would have been on the other side of the road.
I agree Beezer, he was altogether too casual in my view.
“Now suddenly he isnt scared anymore and his name is William Brett Martin……………..of course! did anyone when scouring the cycling websites see anyone of this name, do a search on him now………….nothing!”
So you can’t find any reference to him online so therefore he doesn’t exist.
Not everybody is on Facebook or Twitter and why should he appear on any cycling website just because he has a bike?
The conspiracy theory surrounding this tragic event is based on nothing but vapours and the increasingly desperate attempts of the gullible to keep it aloft are becoming laughable. Twenty five rounds fired to kill four people, the “assassin” runs out of ammunition and has to try and bludgeon the seven year old girl to death (and fails)? Doesn’t sound much like a hit by highly trained professionals to me.
@Ricki @Vermillion @Beezer
All good points.
Did anyone else pick up that he blinked a lot? Lots of blinking generally = lying (trying to remember a story to retell correctly, rather than visualising an experience internally and relaying it through words).
Also his facial expressions didn’t match his words exactly, I can’t put this into words exactly but something seemed odd.
Blink rate tends to increase when people are thinking more or are feeling stressed. This can be an indication of lying as the liar has to keep thinking about what they are saying.
http://changingminds.org/techniques/body/parts_body_language/eyes_body_language.htm
Kempe: “The conspiracy theory surrounding this tragic event is based on nothing but vapours and the increasingly desperate attempts of the gullible to keep it aloft are becoming laughable.”
———–
Fully agree … then I must be a spooke also
Havent seen it yet but thought he said he wasnt used to or didnt know what to do in this situation as far as medical attention? is that true sounds strange for someone that is in the service!
All that talk of CSI doesnt add up and also doesnt seem very respectful when your talking about the number of dead and injured!
Why interviewed in a studio by whom? its the same one on every channel?
This case just gets stranger everyday two steps forward 3 steps back, it reminds me of another case including a keen cyclist the Gareth Willaims, did he every compete in this area?
So Kempe you explain which part of this makes any sense to you its like the last two seasons of Lost made up as it goes along!
The cars White no its red
There was a truck and a Bike – no just a bike
there where 3 shooters – no there is only one.
The girl was announced dead – oh she’s alive
@Kempe
So you can’t find any reference to him online so therefore he doesn’t exist.
He was an avid cyclist and member of the local cycle club, supposedly.
I played a minor sport for a small town side for a few years – and you can find me by googling my name and the sport… (hint: my real name isn’t ferret). Try it with yourself, or a friend – you’d be surprised.
Strange how he was originally supposedly so terrified of being identified, but now isn’t.
And still seems like a psy-op to me.
I mean, if it’s not a cover-up, why suppress all mention of his nuclear knowledge, and any speculation of possible Mossad involvment in the press?
The Independent even went so far as to say the 7.65mm rules out special services, when in fact it is Mossad standard issue! (See my post, with links, above.)
Curiouser, and curiouser, said Alice.
Beezer, Katie: Your comments are completely bizarre. What exactly are you insinuating? That a British Airways pilot trainer who maintains a property in the area has been complicit in a horrendous crime?
People deal with traumatic events in a wide variety of ways. Alternatively, you can ignore that and choose to come to unlikely conclusions based on lazy, gut reactions about how you would expect him to recount the events.
Extended interview to be broadcast on BBC news on/after 2.30pm.
@Ricki , yes same interview on sky and BBC.
He looked pretty well rested for someone that hasn’t slept for a week.
I wonder if there have been ads in the stage for a retired RAF pilot role ? lol
Its a week after he went threw a major trauma, do you think anyone would be the same after cycling into that nightmare? which also includes seeing two children in a bad way. I went through something pretty bad last year and I still well up thinking about it and would find it hard to talk at a camera about it, that was a year ago, this event was last week! I am sure that if he had had a moment they would have shown it to show the emotion of the event! either that or he has no morals or feelings!
Im not saying this guys an alien reptile or anything im not into those conspiracy theories but with some stories they dont add up and this doesnt!
I have this crazy theory that is so far out there, that it just might be true. Bear with me, and don’t shoot it down straight away. Maybe – and I know this is a long shot – but maybe, he is just an ex-RAF guy who stumbled on the crime scene. Crazy – I know! But I have been doing some research, and apparently not everyone who was in the RAF went on to join the secret services. Some of them decided to use their skills as pilots to become, eh, pilots. Apparently some of them also own bikes.
Conspiracy theorists ask people to have an open mind about certain events, but it seems to me that a lot of conspiracy theorists are the ones with closed minds. I get that impression that if a video was found that showed all of the details of this crime, and if that video showed that it wasn’t a state sponsored hit – then people would instantly say that the video was doctored.
There is no reason to believe that Brett Martin isn’t the ex-RAF guy, and that he is telling the truth. So fucking what if he blinked a lot – of course he is under stress – he is being interviewed on TV about a horrific crime he witnessed. People said that the fact that he refused to be identified was suspicious. Now he is identified and is interviewed – and that is suspicious.
No wonder the general public view conspiracy theorists with derision.
Brett’s profile is still on linkedin. He’s just clicked the option to hide it from public view. If you’re signed in to linkedin its still there.
@ReCognito
Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. That doesn’t make you a spook. Or a spoke.
🙂
It just means you don’t believe in conspiracies. Or this conspiracy.
(The spooks are the ones who do kinds of stuff that Anders kindly described, in their attempt to cover up the truth, and to subvert the activities of Those Who Would Find The Truth.)
By the way, one thing still puzzled me. Last night at 9:24 pm you wrote:
“And I’m danish – who live in a country without phoneboxes!”
I’ve been to Denmark and there are plenty of phone boxes… such as these
http://phonebox.webster-smalley.co.uk/2012/03/28/copenhagen/
Which Denmark are you in, exactly?
BBC iPlayer programme has to be finished an hour before u can play iy
Asked where he lives….. answers West Sussex but Brighton is in East Sussex????
I couldnt imagine this man getting aerodynamic on a bike. Looked like someone who always wears a jacket.
“he blinked a lot..”
Anyone know if he blinked a lot before the traumatic incident?
Maybe he is RAF but its much easier to use someone or hire them again if they have already signed the offical secrets act and have security clearance otherwise they may end up with one of us crazy’s.
There isnt any problem with thinking something isnt right! I dont think everything that happens is a conspiracy and hadnt even heard of this site before this week, this thing sounded strange from min 1 thats all! if the story comes and im happy with it, ill leave it be! its about satisfying your own curiosity! why are you here if your not curious or suspicious?
@Ricki – I agree completely. My gut reaction to this was that it was Mossad. It was actually me who first linked the 7.65 ammo with Mossad on this site. But I’d like to think that I have an open mind, and I don’t think everyone here has an open mind. They will believe this is a conspiracy regardless of the evidence. Initially, I thought that the fact the ex-RAF guy was first on the scene was suspicious – and also the fact that the builders were working on his house (this little fact seems to have got lost amongst all the crap that is posted). But at this point in time, I see nothing to suggest that he is involved.
@Bajer @Dehenny
Oooer… keep yer hair on!
😀
@Dennehy
What is bizarre is the the huge discrepancies between Brett Martin’s statements and those of the French hiker, Philippe D., who arrived on the scene moments later.
@bajer
“I thought that the fact the ex-RAF guy was first on the scene was suspicious – and also the fact that the builders were working on his house”
That’s strange as they said that they paid attention to the car because they thought it might be the house owner checking up on them. You would think they might have known that he was out on his bike.
192.com
William Brett Martin
Age Guide: 50-54
Brighton, East Sussex, BN1
incientally there is another Cyclo Club Ugine website, with a photo page.
http://www.cyclos-ugine.net/Souvenirs.htm
I don’t see our “linkedout” RAF member there but I am sure Melanie Phillips of the Mail is a member (2006 photo!)
Fascinating interview, different section available at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19587651
But we haven’t learned anything very new except exRAF identity.
“As I sort of approached the scene, the first thing I saw was a bike on its side and um I had seen the cyclist [Mollier] ahead of me much earlier, so I thought that he was just having a rest.”
I have read a lot of books on the Mossad as I have an interest in SS’s not a conspiracy theory interest I just like spy sh**!
I think we are thinking along teh same lines, when I heard about it I thought Mossad and the RAF thing didnt seem right from day one, why explain someone by their ex profession? what happens if he used to be the local manager at Waitrose?
I like everyones theories as in life you take what you want and leave the rest!
@Bajer
Thank you for the insinuation that I am closed minded. I’ve been called worse by better!!
🙂
Are you saying you do not now think it was Mossad? And that there is a cover up? Or is that still your position?
(If not, how do you explain the D Notice? Or do you not there is one?)
http://company-director-check.co.uk/director/911073461
William Brett Martin has 1 company director or secretary appointments.
Short name – William Martin
Director ID : 911073461
Year of Birth: 1959
Address
23 Lauriston Road
Preston Village
Brighton
BN1 6SN
Company Summary
Company Name Company Status
SILVER FERN (SUSSEX) LIMITED
Ferret: “By the way, one thing still puzzled me. Last night at 9:24 pm you wrote:
“And I’m danish – who live in a country without phoneboxes!”
I’ve been to Denmark and there are plenty of phone boxes… such as these
http://phonebox.webster-smalley.co.uk/2012/03/28/copenhagen/
Which Denmark are you in, exactly?
———-
The phonebox-thing was a joke/ in answer to Anders – not to be interpreted litteraly! So if I say: “we don’t have spooks in Denmark” then don’t take it litteraly.
I also prefer the truth as long as it sticks to the facts, which in my wiev not is identical to how many times a man blink while he is interviewed on TV.
A medical question:
Brett Martin says in the interview:
“She had quite a lot of blood and some obvious head injuries. I checked that she wasn’t profusely bleeding, or anything that needed to be stopped.”
Can you be shot in the shoulder, pass out from blood loss/shock, and not be bleeding profusely? I don’t know as I’m not a medic.
Re blinking a lot, he also ums and ahs a lot, as you can see from MontyW’s post (“sort of”, and “um” in the first sentence, more follows if you listen to the interview.)
@ReCognito
OK thanks for clarifying!
😀