My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Anders – No, I wasn’t cribbing your posts about about 7.65 ammo. It was actually you who got your info from me. I had to correct your misinformation.
Your post on 10 Sep, 2012 – 6:47 pm, where you said –
“a Beretta 70 or 71. 8 rounds per chamber.”
and then my post at 10 Sep, 2012 – 6:57 pm
“@Anders – it is more likely to be a Berettat 81 or 82. The 81 has a double stacked magazine with 12 round capacity, while the 82 has a single stacked magazine with 9 round capacity. src: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Cheetah
Where is it reported that there were 43 shot fired? I can only find reports of 25. If it was 25, then that could be 2 x 12 mags, plus one in the chamber.”
But the actual info about the 7.65mm being light weight ammo, came from me, in a post at 10 Sep, 2012 – 8:07 pm:
” A 7.65mm round is a lightweight round and it would be unlikely to penetrate a windscreen and kill a target – and as he says, it might even bounce off a windscreen if shot from far enough away. Professional shooters use 7.65mm (.32ACP) weapons because they are easier to silence. They do however have to be used in close quarters, and the shooters, where possible, will always follow up with additional shots (usually to the head), to ensure a kill.”
Is that data “hard” enough for you?
@jen
Hi Jen. We dont know though which of the girls was originally in the front passenger seat, and which one was in the back.
I found it interesting that he (Brett Martin) planted the seed of a nutter in the woods in the interview.
Didn’t someone say last night on here, the mentally ill brother (in law? nephew?) might be found dead in the woods with a 7.65mm Skorpion in his hand ……..
I’m not convinced by the interview as a whole though, agree with comments of polished / rehearsed. Also found some of the smirks a little inappropriate (some will argue a coping mechanism).
As far as blinking goes, I watched a show earlier with the Captain Sully that landed in the Hudson River in New York. He was a pilot re-telling a harrowing event … hardly blinked once…
everybody seems to take for granted that the 4 year old hid under her mother’s dress. since there was in fact a baby chair in the passenger seat, she would have been sitting there. This also mean there must have been enough time for her parents to be frightened enough to take her out of her chair and order her to hide in the back seat. This does not only mean the family had been to the parking for a while, but also that they had been scared for some time.
Good point, Jen. So they locked the doors and put the windows up, and the assassins were forced to shoot them through the glass.(allowing for deflection with the first shot and shooting through the hole in the (crazed) glass with the next-also shooting through the “middle of the head” at an angle of 60 to 90 degrees (see Mirror pics – windscreen is intact)….’Hey, you, turn round and face me so I can waste you neatly?’)
But just a minute. There’s a spare daughter wandering about outside. Hypothesis: they’re being followed, and they know it, but daughter badly needs a pee, and they stop…no, if they’re expecting trouble, they’d keep her inside and tell her it’s ok to go and never mind the carpet.
You know what? There’s stuff we’re not being told. Surprise.
We should watch again and see if he looks up to the left or the right before he answers the questions. Is it to the left if they’re lying? We can bicker on whether left or right is lying then over the weekend before comments on here are closed on Monday.
@Dopey
Would have been the 4-year old, since the 7-year old would have been to big for being in a child’s seat. I presume.
@Bruno – I concur and have made the same observation myself. I suspect that Tony Roma is an Ander’s pseudonym. Tony’s use of language is inconsistent and has the hallmarks of someone trying to feign a different writing style.
But, amongst all the crap that has been posted, there was a very good post made by Jen – which I nearly overlooked. Good point about the Iraqi passport. But it may also be that she took the two passports with her for easier entry to any number of countries where an Arab passport would be more welcome than a European one – which still raises the question – where they going to abscond?
As for the 4 year old hiding. Everyone seems of the opinion that the four year old was hid before the gunman started firing into the car. I don’t think this is necessarily the case. The gunman has already demonstrated that he was prepared to leave the children alive, by not killing the 7 year old. The four year old may have been perfectly visible to him and he just didn’t shoot her. She could have hidden herself under her mother’s dress after the shootings, and stayed there in a state of shock.
Car seats, as soon as a car is stopped with a kid strapped to a foam baby booster chair they would be tugging at the buckles to get out.
With regards to the eye movements did he look up and left etc, we’ll never know if they mirrored the footage ??
@Komodo –
exactly my point. all three adults shot in the forehead indicates either an extremely fast shooting killer able to shoot from different angels at the same time, or that the adults knew they were going to be killed and that there were nothing to do about it, except to hide the little one.
I am thinking SM was delivering something to grandmother for transportation with her to iraq.
I mentioned this yesterday – the family left the caravan site around noon that day. So where did they go/what did they do for the three to four hours before they ended up at that car park?
So far there hasnt been one witness to come forward (or that we know of press wise) to say they saw the family somewhere during those 3/4 missing hours.
Dopey. We should watch again and see if he looks up to the left or the right before he answers the questions…….. When discussing the 4 year old he looked directly at the camera a couple of times
@Bajer @Watcher
Good point, I didn’t think of the possibility of her being witnessing the whole thing. And I know from experience that almost no child like to sit perfectly still in a car. But why didn’t they let her out in that case?
So, two guys in the same cycling club who know each other take the same snaking potholed road to nowhere independently. One passes the other, and barely a word is spoken. Shortly afterwards one is riddled with bullets.
All very normal.
The “ex-RAF” cyclist – wondered why he is so described. I mean, I’m ex-RAF myself, but wouldn’t decribe myself to the media as such. Particularly if I had a nice little financial firm in Exhibition Road….and a lovely holiday home to let in Annecy…
http://france.silverfernsussex.co.uk/
BUT site is down “for maintenance” – see the cache.
The name of William Brett Martin’s company is Silver Fern (Sussex) btw
Why let both children out and potentially run into the woods to play (get lost) when your waiting for someone your meeting. If it was a drop off you’d probably want to drop/pick up whatever the goods are and get out of there.
@jen
I havent got kids, but I wonder whether a parent could lock the doors with their 7 year old outside the car and a shooter a few feet away. Its even had me wondering whether she crawled out of the boot (or even out of a smashed window) , or they opened the boot (from inside) to let her in…..but then I remembered the head injuries.
Just watch the RAF man’s eyebrows during the video. They don’t lie.
Is there any more info on the Iranian links to this ?
One explanation as to why the 7 year old got out of the car is that she was sitting in the front seat (the grandmother may have been originally in the front seat, but as they were parked there for a while, she got into the back to chat to the mother, and the seven year old got in the front) – and then she got out of the car to let Mollier in. The gunman appeared and fired the shots at Mollier, with one of them hitting the seven year old in the shoulder. The head injuries were a result of being pistol whipped to stop her leaving the scene and raising the alarm. A shot from a 7.65mm bullet from distance would not necessarily have incapacitated her.
What did rafman say in the interview about the 4×4 and motorbike? Did he say he saw them as he was pelting back down the hill before bumping in to Phillipe and co?
@Dopey, he mentioned the 4×4 but stated he couldn’t tell if there was 1 or 10 people inside. Think he said something about being on a steep climb on a mountain bike and moving to the side of the road to let 4×4 pass him.
“I havent got kids, but I wonder whether a parent could lock the doors with their 7 year old outside the car and a shooter a few feet away.”
I seem to remember something (on the earlier thread?) about BMW’s automatically locking after x length of time in certain circs. Something to do with avoiding carjackings. Can’t remember the details. The thread was probably “Shootings in France”. It would suggest that the doors automatically locked when he was trying to reverse, IIRC.
I’m too tired to look. Going to bed.
Alpha:
If Mr Kiwi RAF man is legit and flew phantoms in late 1980s then he was either based at Conningsby, Leuchars, Wattisham, Wildenrath or Mount Pleasent or Stanley in the Falklands.
Link http://thephantomshrine.co.uk/types.htm
Bi lingual, not british, well educated, former services. Just the sort of chap that chaps from legoland like.
@Nuid
In my car the central locking engages about 10 secs after I shut the driver’s door with me in the car. Doesn’t do that with me out of the car. Found it annoying initially. Couldn’t be bothered to RTFM. Got used to it.
ONE COMPANY DOES IT ALL WHO NEEDS REAL SPOOKS.
WHEN YOU CAN HAVE RENT AN EX SPOOK OR MK PSYCHO
WE ALSO OFFER THE USE OF ARE EX RAF PILOTS FOR DRIVING SERVICES AND CLEAN UP OPERATIONS.
HIGHLY TRAINED APART FROM THE BLINKING BLINKING.
JUST LOOK AT THE SKILL SET ONLY A SMALL PART BUT IMPRESSIVE YES NO.
Counter Intelligence and Disinformation Strategy
Source Management and Handling
Whistleblower Management Services
Surveillance Tasks and Services (static and mobile)
Electronic Countermeasures (ECM) Equipment
Cellular Monitoring and Encryption services
Telephone and Fax Encryption
Anti IED (Improvised Explosive Device) Detection and Disruption Equipment
Covert GPS Asset Mobile and Static Tracking (from laptop to container sizes)
Body Armour & Armoured Vehicles
Biometric and Specialist Access Control Systems and Installations
Security Drivers and Chauffeurs push bikes cost xtra
Threat Incident and Event Management
Police and Government a bbc frank gardner Liaison
We should watch again and see if he looks up to the left or the right before he answers the questions. Is it to the left if they’re lying? We can bicker on whether left or right is lying then over the weekend before comments on here are closed on Monday.
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Don’t worry, this is being analysed.
He’s a lying SOS. 🙂
“I havent got kids, but I wonder whether a parent could lock the doors with their 7 year old outside the car and a shooter a few feet away.”
I seem to remember something (on the earlier thread?) about BMW’s automatically locking after x length of time in certain circs. Something to do with avoiding carjackings. Can’t remember the details. The thread was probably “Shootings in France”. It would suggest that the doors automatically locked when he was trying to reverse, IIRC.
I’m too tired to look. Going to bed.
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Good night Nuid.
BMW 5 series features :
Impact Crash Sensor System Automatically Turns On Hazard Lights, Interior Lights and Unlocks Doors
Taken from the safety section of this
http://autos.yahoo.com/bmw/5-series/2000/540i/features.html
@felix
So, two guys in the same cycling club who know each other take the same snaking potholed road to nowhere independently. One passes the other, and barely a word is spoken. Shortly afterwards one is riddled with bullets.
All very normal.
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Yes, and the type A pilot/triathelete/spookyboy let a Frog overtake him up Le Climbe? 😉
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…/French-Alps-shootings-British-cyclist-speaks…11 hours ago – Brett Martin training. Hero: Mr Martin is seen here training in Steyning. He is a keen competitor in the triathlon.
I don’t think so. :O)
@bilbo
Just watch the RAF man’s eyebrows during the video. They don’t lie.
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I did too, and they were doing an SOS for “get me outta here!” 🙂