My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Interested – I am that lonely person from the Icke forum. So this is where all the cool people hang out is it?! ;o)
Someone was asking earlier about the identity of the ‘Swedish’ Gradmother.. have done some digging and come up with an address…
Suhaila Al-Allaf
08-534 90 047
Hålvägen 6, 14753 TUMBA
Interestingly, there is a man called Karl Gunnar Wiman listed at the same address, not sure if it means he is actually in the same flat, or the same block. There is nobody else listed for this address, and the google pic shows a large block of flats/apartments.
Can’t find any links yet for Karl to the case, but he’s had his own traumas – his wife was recently convicted of murdering his 2 young children. You couldn’t make it up!!
Link to a swedish news source stating that Swedish police are searching grandma’s apartment…
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/polis-ska-undersoka-lagenheten-i-tumba/
If you’d like it in English, paste the link into google, and then click translate the page.
@Pink Panther – not necessarily. A body’s weight and gravity could continue to press the accelerator pedal.
Maybe Al Hilli’s foot got jammed on or around the accelerator. The car must still have been in reverse gear, otherwise when the engine was switched off it would have rolled forward wouldnt it?
It must surely have stalled too when rafman switched off the engine.
@Dopey – That was my initial thought, and why I originally ruled out the brother as a suspect. But I would be interested to see the exact terms of the will. There could be a clause in the will that states that in the event of death of one of the brothers, the estate passes sideways to the other brother – not to the daughters. Arab culture is very male dominated. Their sister didn’t seem to get much of a look in in the will, as the house was left to the two sons.
@ mollie
Hi Mollie
Can’t find any links yet for Karl to the case, but he’s had his own traumas – his wife was recently convicted of murdering his 2 young children. You couldn’t make it up!!
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Crikey! Maybe Karl reckons the grannie actually did it and had the hit on the grannie!
(joke, before you all start)
@Dopey – RAF guy says the wheels were spinning, so it was in gear – not neutral, so when it was switched off it would stay put. Even if it was in a forward gear, it would stay put when switched off.
If the foot was still on the accelerator and the car in reverse gear when the engine was cut the car would still stall though and shudder backwards (or try to)?
Incidentally rafman must have been sure the car WAS in reverse gear when he switched off the engine. Me, I’d still be taking no chances and would put the hand brake on too.
Article here in English about Karl Gunner
http://kenyastockholm.com/2011/09/22/kenya-stockholms-double-murder-update-it-could-have-been-an-accident/
I don’t think RAF man was sure it was in reverse because he moved the 7 year old and Mollier from in front of the car in case the car lurched forward. The car probably wouldn’t have moved backwards when shut down – there was no grip for the wheels to let it do this – that’s why the rear wheels were spinning (rear wheel drive).
Can someone enlighten me of the top three blogs like this?
@Dopey – RAF guy says the wheels were spinning, so it was in gear – not neutral, so when it was switched off it would stay put. Even if it was in a forward gear, it would stay put when switched off.
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It’s a manual car right? If the car was in reverse with the wheels spinning, then the clutch was not depressed otherwise the wheels wouldn’t spin.
So, the handbrake…. It couldn’t have been on, as the car would have stalled if it was.
In order for the wheels to be spinning, something must have been preventing the car from moving backwards, but looking at the incline of the hill behind the car, the car should have been able to go back further than it did.
Also, rigor mortis only starts to set in after about 4 hours, reaching full ‘stiffness’ after 12 hours. Immediately after death, the body would be limp and floppy.
I know, I’ve seen many a fresh corpse ;o)
@Bajer
Thanks!
@Molliemallone @Dopey
The Karl guy lives in another apartment, the building is a block of apartments with appx 5 floors.
@Mollie – if you look at the pictures you will see the left rear wheel buried (in either mud or leaves) – that is why it was spinning – no traction.
One of the things that annoys me about driving most cars is that you spend most of your time holding your accelerator foot up; relax, and it falls to maximum throttle. VW LT35 van is good for the opposite, with a nice hinged plate, so you can choose the leverage and balance your foot at any throttle opening. Tonnes better than cruise control.
@Anders777 I forgot your exat quote so heres both versions:”First reports said one woman had no injuries at all” “First report said one woman had no gunshot injuries at all”
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1730761
First post links to BBC article on day of incident.Now how can they report 4 people shot dead if one had no injuries. I know you have been missing some meds but do keep up.
@Pink Panther yes you can press accelerator when dead,if your foot is on it then there it stays.
@pinkie
Re Raf man interview. Everyone has been talking about blinks and NLP. I can assure you of a more simple method to analyse for lying. It’s analysing breathing patterns. Just lie you yourself and you will experience the effect. I have watched that interview over 25 times and made a mark at each point there was inconsistency in his breathing. I then compared my points mapped with the bits people have pointed out as being suss. The degree of consistency is remarkable. No doubt, this guy is 100% staged.
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You’ve got nothing on me matey boy! 😉
I had an INFRA RED CAMERA trained on RAFman on the u boob director’s cut secret hush hush video, Martin C**t, eat your heart out! 😉
I was able to map heat and flush signatures, NIPPLE ERECTION algorithms, that sort of jazz, and I was also able to detect, HARD DATA STYLE! rivers of sweat meandering down RAFman’s bum crack! 😉
Don’t ask me how, just think Nile, Dr Maillaud, I presume, and Moriarty in a mental threesome at la Chaveline falls! 😉
Ask Adrianna about my research, that NSU knows more than she is letting on! 😉
I also trained my trusty 16mm Bolex on the MIRROR, and Mises ON Scene palm trees, dodgy wooden door (and act-TOR! 🙂 , and if you BLOW UP a 16mm frame with the appropriate enlarging lens (pref. Kodak) then you will CLEARLY be able to spy an earpiece in RAFman’s lug hole, via the MIRROR! 😉
Can’t get the staff.
@John – is the sarcasm really necessary?
It’s not beyond the realm of plausibility to suggest that Grandma could have had a massive heart attack from the stress of seeing her family massacred! No injuries.
Anders, a bit sober today? Feeling guilty about the 3 day binge?? Fuel up mate, I want some stories!!
@anders, fail. This isnt like a Pit bull with a lock jaw. Forget rictal spasms, this thread seems to be giving you rectal spasms.
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Oooo’er missus! 🙂
Four examples of death by right foot braking of automatics:
A retired driving instructor was manoeuvring his Mini automatic in a supermarket carpark using only his right foot as he had always taught his pupils. Either the engine surged or he had a spasm. He quickly stamped his right foot on the brake, hit the accelerator instead and the Mini went into a wall. He died of his injuries.
A man was parking his BMW automatic in a Hong Kong multi story car park. Either the engine suddenly surged or the driver had a spasm. He tried to brake. Hit the accelerator instead of the brake. Crashed through the safety barrier and plunged six floors to his death.
An elderly gentleman was reversing his automatic car one footed, aided by his wife of 50 years standing behind it. Suddenly the car surged and he has unable to get his foot off the accelerator onto the brake before he had run her over and killed her.
On 19th May 2010 a Range Rover was left in reverse with the engine running and the parking brake applied. The driver and passenger got out. The driver got back in, one of her feet touched the accelerator pedal, automatically releasing the parking brake. The car, being in reverse, immediately began to move backwards. In panic the driver pushed more on the accelerator (instead of the brake) and the car knocked over and killed the passenger.
🙂 🙂 🙂
Welcome, molliemalone. I did give two three links to here, so welcome aboard! 🙂
Re: just for the record – correct car park location.
@ Dopey – this is a repost of mine explaining how I arrived at the correct location of the car park:
Car park coordinates from Google Earth:
45 deg 43′ 46.73″ N
6 deg 13′ 28.12″ E
http://goo.gl/maps/J1z7L – route starts at the multi-lingual sign board where the police set up the road block (A) and ends up at the tiny car park at the head of the road where the shootings took place (B). Total distance 3.2 km. This matches the 3km mentioned on the signpost (not 5km as mis-quoted.)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/07/article-2198777-14DEA43C000005DC-17_964x640.jpg
shows river bed stones glimpsed through tree canopy in bottom left. Also bridge parapets on bottom right.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/07/article-2198777-14E36B69000005DC-792_964x641.jpg shows road is straight leading up to car park. Note also No Vehicles sign (round white sign with red border) and the map/ information board.
This matches up with Matt’s link where you can see car park indicated, the barrier across road marked, river to west and stream crossing road:
http://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/accueil?c=6.238104875676329,45.732052757104576&z=0.000032305502520928274&l=GEOGRAPHICALGRIDSYSTEMS.MAPS.3D$GEOPORTAIL:OGC:WMTS@aggregate(1)&permalink=yes
Olifant also posted this good map: quote “Discover The Regional Natural Park Bauges” (~A2 size leaflet)
http://www.parcdesbauges.com/nature/reserve-nationale-de-chasse-et-de-faune-sauvage/presentation-de-la-reserve.html
Télécharger la carte et le dépliant de la Réserve 3.86 Mb (Download the map and brochure of the Reserve 3.86 Mb) which seems to show route from Chervaline to Jarsy via ?barriers (ie red bars) at Car Park in La Combe d’Ire and at Pt (?pont) de Leyat.” End quote.
The white roads are most probably fully tarmaced, the red routes probably dirt/ gravel. I read that the route from Chevaline to Jarsy used to be a D road but was declassified making it a perfect bike ride on a road bike as it is tarmac but without traffic. The red barriers on the map are probably not physical barriers or gates but serve to indicate the limits of permissible motor traffic.
The fact that the carpark is not marked on the correct side of the road is due I would suggest to cartographical reasons. Placing it in the exact correct place on the map would obscure an important junction and corners, so it is placed slightly to the side.
@anders, now you’re getting there. So your examples focus on living people yet SAH was dead when he was flooring it.
So is the latest that he was actually alive? Or are you just copying and pasting HARD DATA but IRRELEVANT for fun?
You’re legendary.
@Anders
Thanks, the level of conversation is dwindling fast over there….
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“Originally Posted by eqorue
what i mean…
the killed brother blocked the will, and also it seems, that the other brother tried to play tricks on their fathers assets before already…
IF…
the family was killed, and the girls abducted… in the french alps
then the killers and abductors (contractors?) would get a good share of money – from the paid ransom for their job…
and after collecting the ransom, they would kill the girls…
then the brother would inherit it all… well, the rest after ransom paid…
?”
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Mad as a box of frogs!! (no pun intended!)
Hi all
From now on, any posts that are substantially or entirely about who is here to derail will be deleted. There is so much bun-fighting going on here, the MI5/CIA/Mossad disinfo agents are putting their feet up and eating doughnuts!
So… stay on topic folks.
Anders enough about your nipple erections and looking at your bolex in a mirror!
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Just trying to let pinkie have a good night’s sleep and not worry about being demoted to tea lady at Vauxhall cross tomorrow. 🙂
@Anders
Your examples of people killing themselves by hitting the accelerator instead of the brake in the throes of death (caused by either a cardiac arrest or some kind of neurological event) and then subsequently crashing are very different to the SAH scenario. The people you are talking about, once dead, would have been floppy.
If SAH was dead by the time RAFman arrived (as he would have us believe), he would not have been in some sort of spasm, because his muscles would have been all floppy. I don’t believe he would have had any tone in his right leg to be able to keep it on the accelerator with enough force to make the wheels spin.
Whats raf boy got stuffed in his right arm (top)? http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4537634/Breaking-his-silence-Ex-RAF-Brit-first-on-scene-of-French-Alps-massacre.html
PS People don’t die like they do in the movies, they don’t thrash about, life just tends to ebb away, particularly when there is an acute blood loss. The body is very clever, and will do everything to preserve itself… sending blood to essential organs like heart and brain, and away from the limbs, intestines, kidneys, liver etc, all in an effort to maintain a good blood pressure to perfuse the heart and brain.
Anders, a bit sober today? Feeling guilty about the 3 day binge?? Fuel up mate, I want some stories!!
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Care to give HARD DATA that dying rictus paroxysms have NOT caused innumerable proven deaths, old chap?
I’ve given HARD DATA.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/driving-automatics-safely/
What have you useless Legoland “experts” done? Nada. 🙂
A little test, and all the numpties fall for it. 🙂
Carry on.
Thanks anders. You can fix it.
Back on topic. As bloggers, we’ll always be ridiculed because we will never have as much information as officials. It’s like sitting in a class of 5 year olds trying to discuss the cause of the financial crisis. As fun As it is to listen, itll entirely be full of nonsense, much like some of the assertions on this thread.
When has threads like this solved world class mysteries?
Being here becomes a hobby.
Now for the sake of intellectual debate, I am open to be challenged.