My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Ian boyd, looks like a prosthetic arm!!
Maybe he is the bionic man ;o)
His foot must have been jammed on the accelerator, or to the side of it with some rpessure on it.
I’ve done that myself a good few times (silly high heels does it frequently) to know that once your foot’s stuck, you can be as floppy as you like, its still stuck.
Anders – are you asking me to prove a negative? Why don’t you prove a positive you claim where a dead person and press an accelerator due to rictus spasms. Logic 101.
I’ve seen a lot of creatures die and the vast majority twitch and spasm
@Dopey
So now Mr Al Hilli is in high heels?! lol
Just kidding, I know what you are saying, I just don’t think it would happen that way.
Dopey – but you were alive when you did that? When dead you have no pressure. Please don’t experiment!
Hence my hypothesis that there was something in the driver footwell.
Short but good clip from BBC on how did the killer(s) get away?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19594095
@ Makka
I’ve seen a lot of people die over the course of a 25year nursing career, and not once have I seen anyone thrash about / twitch / spasm.
Ahem
http://www.twincities.com/national/ci_21246795/vegas-police-chase-dead-driver-his-foot-gas
Doesnt mention his choice of footwear though…
Bandage round a wound on his arm?
@ makka
According to Raf chap, driver was inaminate. No twitching or spasming.
Unless the Raf man is lying there must have been something in that footwell to be pressing the accelerator.
@ pink panther
Ive just posted a link about a dead man (shot) “driving” his car.
Thats the only one I can find, but an example that it can happen?
@ Anders – off topic – driving automatics with both feet.
I do not agree with Honest John on this one (I’m a professional advanced driving instructor and I used to post for years in the Back Room).
I don’t think you will find a single driving course that recommends using both feet for driving autos on the road. Why is that? Because it is not safe.
HJ has been doing it for years but he is not an expert in driving instruction nor safety and has been proven wrong over issues.
Your examples of people killing themselves by hitting the accelerator instead of the brake in the throes of death (caused by either a cardiac arrest or some kind of neurological event) and then subsequently crashing are very different to the SAH scenario. The people you are talking about, once dead, would have been floppy.
If SAH was dead by the time RAFman arrived (as he would have us believe), he would not have been in some sort of spasm, because his muscles would have been all floppy. I don’t believe he would have had any tone in his right leg to be able to keep it on the accelerator with enough force to make the wheels spin.
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I am suggesting a possibility, not a probability.
We don’t know.
We don’t have access to the crime scene, all the HARD DATA.
Guy could have done a panic reverse, hoping to do a three point, one tries ones best in panic situations, as he jams the pedal HARD DATA STYLE he gets whacked in the brain, who is to say his foot did NOT remain on the pedal , got jammed perhaps.
I understand the physiology if death, but I am not willing to discount my scenario.
Anders – the scenario here is that a chap who is dead is pressing the gas peddle. I find that rather difficult to believe because when dead pressure goes from body and doubt one would be able to press a peddle.
Goodness knows what evidence you have provided to counter my suggestion, but you refer to something that has no relevance. You are comparing Apples with pears. You are taliking about alive people mispressing accelerators which has jack to do with this situation. Misinformation to divert – nice try spider.
That aside, thank you to Dopey who provided a counter factual that I can consider.
Bandage round a wound on his arm?
anyways nobody cares dat is so last weak no wat eye meen.
so xcited amazin neerly satday
popstars on ice xfactor idol on tommorow init
so why are the blah blah corporation wastin video is it that a few conspiracy nutters just won’t let it lie
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19594095
Bottom line, in a couple of days the killer will be revealed. I’m sure the authorise have all the information now.
Molliemallone
I’ve seen a lot of people die over the course of a 25year nursing career, and not once have I seen anyone thrash about / twitch / spasm.
so then when you see smashed up kids and dead brown people with double and treble head holes.
do you think of hollywood the movies and csi like stuff.
or do you think yuk.
Why is this in any way important anyway?
Clearly the wheel had been spinning to dig that hole.
Dust patterns on the car show it.
RAF man turning car off makes sense.
Who gives a stuff for the details?
Bottom line, in a couple of days the killer will be revealed. I’m sure the authorise have all the information now.
pinky pantzer that sounds like a threat hope your not gonna try pin this one on poor craig.
he was opening a garden fate or is it fete.
lovely day it was a little town called claygate surrey.
sponsored by the bbc and a surrey based low orbit satellite company.
craig spent the day serving tea from a garden shed very nice.
raised 120 pounds for the local masonic hall roof repair.
Hi again
@ Anders – off topic – driving automatics with both feet.
I do not agree with Honest John on this one (I’m a professional advanced driving instructor and I used to post for years in the Back Room).
I don’t think you will find a single driving course that recommends using both feet for driving autos on the road. Why is that? Because it is not safe.
HJ has been doing it for years but he is not an expert in driving instruction nor safety and has been proven wrong over issues.
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I used to race Caterhams, had an all steel BDG Fuel Injected road legal job, well over the BHP level of thevrather tame factory R500, mine was a monster, brakes adjustabke from the cockpit, the lot, my second HPC.
Look it up, I did six 8 hour days with John Lyon and Hugh Noblett, to a far far higher standard than IAM, which I regard as mickey mouse tbh.
John almost wrote the book in the latter years for Police advanced driving courses, and he taught me all the techniques, hence the seriousness with which I take driving, and indeed motorcycling.
Some of the best Finish rally drivers used left foot braking,
Left-foot braking – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-foot_braking
Finnish rally legend Flying Finn Rauno Aaltonen used left-foot braking as a driving style in rallying when …
some F1 drivers do, and I did too, settling the car on a fast entry at say Brands with slight pressure on the brake with the left, right foot at the same time applying or lifting off power, get it all right and fucking boot it HARD DATA STYLE(tm) and make no mistake! 🙂
Anyhoos, I stand by my research that a dying driver shot on the head could POSSIBLY jam the pedal to the floor.
@ makka
According to Raf chap, driver was inaminate. No twitching or spasming.
Unless the Raf man is lying there must have been something in that footwell to be pressing the accelerator.
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Yes, must have dropped a kebab. 🙂
@ anders – thanks. I’ve just spat weetabix all over my keyboard at that.
@ Makka
I’ve seen a lot of people die over the course of a 25year nursing career, and not once have I seen anyone thrash about / twitch / spasm.
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Yes but Mollie, I bet most were on beds or at A & E?
This is quite a unique situation, the postulation being a guy doing a panic reverse, hits the bank, and pedal to the metal HARD DATA STYLE(tm)…?
At any rate I love the way this thread is evolving and I hope the Gracious Craig and TEM let it morph into thread number three.
Legoland want the dimbulb public to move on to greener pastures / sheep waiting to be culled.
Are we sheep?
Anyone want to paste in the timeline from Icke here, and we can razor it down minute by minute, hi light the discrepancies!
Then all send it to our MPs, Surrey Police Force, M’Llaud, Et all!
I’m up for it! 🙂
@ pink panther
Ive just posted a link about a dead man (shot) “driving” his car.
Thats the only one I can find, but an example that it can happen?
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I’ve found plenty more but can’t be arsed, these are time wasting and detailing tactics. 😉
@ all of you lol
There are many reported stories of people falling asleep at wheel or indeed dying at the wheel,coach driver in Somerset a few days ago.The vehicles continued in motion(obviously steering didnt!)
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-07-31/news/32966402_1_fatal-heart-attack-wheel-telephone-pole
There’s one there are many more.
@john
Ta 😉
You lot have been driving for years, and you’ve never noticed that in nine out of ten vehicles, you have to hold your throttle foot up against its own weight rather than pressing it down? Just how little self awareness do you have? I suppose it’s like the majority of cyclists, who never notice that to steer left, they apply a torque to the right (clockwise).
Jon, you don’t seriously intend to police this thread, do you? Best to just close comments, I’d say. They’re all mad!
Best to just close comments, I’d say. They’re all mad!
thats a good boy clarky close it down.
clarky you remind me of a character from if.
you didn’t school with boris and south african nuke collector diddy david cameron did you.
bullingdon boy clarky.
close it down.
for clarky boy the first straw is the last straw.
don’t upset clarky he will shut you down.