My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
You lot have been driving for years, and you’ve never noticed that in nine out of ten vehicles, you have to hold your throttle foot up against its own weight rather than pressing it down? Just how little self awareness do you have? I suppose it’s like the majority of cyclists, who never notice that to steer left, they apply a torque to the right (clockwise).
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On powerful motorbikes it is a MUST. – Counter-steering, counter-intuitive but it isn’t. 😉
Go back and look at the scene videos of where the car was parked, links above. Bone dry. Hardly any embankment behind. This is not the great bog of Ireland. We half half way up a mountain in Summer with pine forests. Go and look and tell me if a mobility scooter could get stuck there. Burning rubber – it’s just fantasy.
Jon, you don’t seriously intend to police this thread, do you? Best to just close comments, I’d say. They’re all mad!
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Oh dear. 🙁
Go back and look at the scene videos of where the car was parked, links above. Bone dry. Hardly any embankment behind. This is not the great bog of Ireland. We half half way up a mountain in Summer with pine forests. Go and look and tell me if a mobility scooter could get stuck there. Burning rubber – it’s just fantasy.
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You only burn rubber on Tarmac… 😉
Sans a lot of it about in situ, eh what? 🙂
if we all accepted the lie which the bbc and frankie boy gardner imposed.
if all records told the same tale-then the lie passed into history and became truth.
Who controls the past controls the future.
who controls the present controls the past.
winston i see an honest bbc mi6 man in a wheel chair.
you should and will believe his truth.
why because if you do not clarky will call you mad.
Look, for example at photos here of car park/bank- can’t link individually –
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/who-is-fourth-french-alps-shooting-1312804
It’s still incredible.
@MollieMalone
Thanks for Swedish link – no mention of the woman’s name there!
Someone has gone mad taking photos of her block in Tumba –
http://www.barcroftmedia.com/index.php?10049716221355947120.000094916092621312021110015092012033052&EVENT=WEBSHOP_SEARCH&SEARCHMODE=SERIES&SHOWSERIES=1.97750
@Molliemalone
as a strange co-incidence, just half an hour ago I had to euthanase a Swamp Wallaby near where I live (I work for a wildlife orgaisation and probably do about three a year).
I put three bullets in it’s head and then watched it spasming strongly for about three minutes.
I imaging SAH had stopped as he had already been dead a while by the time RAF man got there.
@MontyW –
thanks for the BBC “explanation” video – “How could a vehicle escape France shooting scene?”
with the Corporation’s Christian Fraser. Interesting to build on/knock down.
What on earth does he mean “…in the still and the darkness of the forest where he found the car” It was 3.40pm.
“scrambler bike coming down towards him” – I haven’t heard that one before!!
What happened to the two women allegedly with Monsieur Philippe D???
Brett Martin video (s)
“take her down to my bike” [does he mean “on my bike”?] Is he mad??
I notice “go for help on my bike as fast as I could”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/13/french-alps-shootings-cyclist-describes-scene?newsfeed=true
Is Martin on his bike when he meets the hiker as he planned?
Is Martin on his bike when he meets the hiker as he planned?
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He’s on his bike now, if he’s got any sense! 🙂
the vauxhall tv interview show really holds up to repeat viewing more so than csi.
or a hollywood movie.
mk confessions of a blinking not so down under.
not so real raf pilot.
the low level of medical traing i have had in my life.
what a heroic raf pilot everything is high level yes
saw a toppled over bike and thought rider was having a rest A
thought she was playing falling over larking about with a sibling A
how did he know she had a sibling at that moment A tell me dat
A
never noticed der engine noise one sec a girl playing a cyclist resting the next terrible car accident.
this pilot is sharp surprised he never crashed his planes every week.
never seen shot or dead people just like hollywood and csi blink blink blank.
I thought maybe there was some crazy person in the woods. I started scanning the woods to see if there was a nutter hiding and I was going to be the next person shot.”
maybe a mad iraqui or iranian cousin,uncle,aunty,grandad,2nd cousin twice removed on into infinity as long as they are brown and related.
the french police now say the focus of the investigation is on the al hili family.
Just saw a really good vid about how the spooks work in cases like this.
http://youtu.be/UQ1J7zRmPnA
Top notch Toneeeeeee, as ever!!! 🙂
It’s Craig’s blog; not up to me to close comments. I’m just expressing my opinion. Yeah, there are some good nuggets, but the quality of debate here among most of the contributors is appalling. Laced with petty bickering, wild speculation, incomprehensible innuendo and futile argument over insignificant points. You lot are indulging yourselves. For me it’s like wading through treacle, or sorting through turds looking for treasure. Shoot this thread. Put it out of its misery.
I should be able to drop into a thread and gain some semblance of the debate in progress, especially if it’s as long as this one is. I’m finding that impossible. I’d have to start from the top, so as to work out all the alliances and enmities that have formed, so I can tell direct comments from sarcastic ones. It’s a huge waste of time.
Good luck Jon!
@ Anders
“if you BLOW UP a 16mm frame with the appropriate enlarging lens (pref. Kodak) then you will CLEARLY be able to spy an earpiece in RAFman’s lug hole, via the MIRROR!”
That’s rather what I thought, which is why I posted what I did about ‘mise en scene’above.
I was only semi-joking M69, I don’t have the equipment to zoom in X20 or 40, but check the mirror top right hand corner and you will see RAFman’s ear…
Shoot this thread. Put it out of its misery.
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Lord Acton quote, goes something like this, substitute the average word for ‘m o d’, in my experience (over 25 years on the net) for ‘power’:
“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
Shame.
It’s a huge waste of time.
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Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
So getting on for 3,000 comments, over many many days, by hundreds of different people, is a huge waste of time, eh?
Dearie me. 🙁
i close my eyes and see the unmoving nodding head hardly any slither or hint of ear on the right side.
reflection of ear in mirror is inconclusive.
blinking,blinking blinking occasional shifty glance into lens.
sucking in of air into lungs,stiffness and expansion of neck muscles.
he has total scene reality detachment,sometimes a smile
not a care in the world apart from getting a script out.
not seeming to be a man in fear of swarthy iraqi family member hit squad.
he has been around death before maybe not killed but has seen things.
a sloppy edit with piss poor journalism.
asking the question why.
why the earlier bbc guy pointing down the road talking about dem dark woods.
why wheel out a fraud filmed next to palm and a not so exit door.
a weird little cupboad with tiny little dinky handles on.
the kind of cupboard men are found hanging in.
the kind of cupboard that spooks use to kill and to destroy reputations.
stick an orange in mouth,pull pants down stick a dirty mag on the floor.
auto erotic wanker killed himself dirty bugger.
who is gonna believe he was helped.
who will want to investigate.
who is this bullshit for.
can anybody defend this interview as real and above reproach.
is this how a modern man reacts to smash up kids and dead folks.
the sun newspaper seems to have the longest interview 12.49
anyone seen a longer one.
@Anders7777
The Mechanic – brilliant film.Brilliant clip. Clearly the model for this brouhaha. Notice all the dust flying. Next thing, they’ll get stuck in deep mud in fast reverse gear,with burning rubber and overheating engine smell pervading the mountain air.
The Accountant’s tale.
Mr Al-Hilli’s personal accountant, Julian Stedman, said he believed the older woman in the car was his mother-in-law.[Sept 6]
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2120121_video_claygate_family_in_alps_shootings_horror
So, Julian Stedman is ahead of the cops there.
W.Brett Martin interview.
Complete sequence
BBC video 19587272
10.28 mins
The Sun (Sky) video starts at 04.07 in the BBC video ….car had shattered windows.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/video/news/sky-news/4536804/Alps-Murders-Witness-describes-his-awful-dilemma.html
12.49 mins.
Total footage about 17 mins.
The other BBC video
19587311
is contained within 19587272 from 5.16 – 8.53 – starts burning rubber..
@Straw44Berry
Your link at Icke was fascinating. Did you notice too the Swedish video underneath of Granny’s flat??
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article15404918.ab
@James
[So far, I’ve caught up to 6.05pm yesterday evening, but I’m writing this while I definitely still have time this morning.]
I say “probably” because I don’t know.
OK, fair enough.
The film “they” gave was so heavily “messed with” it’s unbelievable.
True – the Zapruder film is an obvious fake, you just have to examine it frame by frame to spot the glaring inconsistencies. (But for pre-CGI days it was pretty good work, and it certainly did its job.)
You know, I’m glad you mentioned JFK, as it’s got me thinking about the way these things play out in the media. The mistakes always come early on, and details are changed later, so early details are really important.
For example, in the JFK case, originally only 2 spent cartridges were found in the “sniper’s nest”. The third cartridge was supposedly found later, in a policeman’s pocket! You can see the handwritten amendment to the evidence sheet (a typewritten “2” overwritten with pen to “3”*.)
The reason they needed the third cartridge was to account for the injury to Governor Connally, who wasn’t supposed to get hit. (JFK had been shot twice.) Then of course eye witness James Tague showed up, and they had to invent the “magic bullet” theory.
🙂
But before I go toooooo far off topic, the reason I’m mentioning all this is to show that early details are very important, because if they “stick”, they have to get woven into the final narrative somehow.
One of the biggest problems so far in the Al Hilli case is the 30 secs of automatic gunfire initially reported as being heard by witnesses. Neither RAFman nor PD reports hearing any shots at all, and they were really close to the killings. Big oops IMHO. Let’s see what they come up with to explain that.
BUT…they had everyone looking the other way. At the “motive”.
Here “maybe” it’s the same. Everyone is looking at “why”.
May “industrial espionage” that could have lead to the discovery of other “political espionage” !
If the “crime” doesn’t look right….then they will have to keep changed “the facts” for it to “fit” the questions people are asking.
OK, so yes. I agree that it is ALL important. Crime scene, motive, the lot. The only problem at the moment is that the only “evidence” we have is newspaper reports which must be taken with a pinch (or twenty) of salt.
At least with JFK, half a century on, there is documents evidence and eyewitness testimony to examine.
Do I now make sense ?
Yes, I gotcha.
🙂
* Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry published a book including a number of official documents, including the evidence sheet. I am really not at all sure why he went public with all this, I think he was trying to clear the name of the Dallas PD with any involvement in the crime or its subsequent cover-up.
http://www.amazon.com/Retired-Dallas-reveals-personal-assassination/dp/B0006CZR8M
It’s likely without any connection with that case, however, I still wonder whether or not this guy was some kind of relative to our al-hillis.
http://alhilli.net/biography/
I’ve now caught up with everything since yesterday evening. Phew! Looks like you guys had quite the busy night!!
😀
A couple of comments – I’ll try and keep it short.
1. Re the single shooter seen by 7yo, all the French sources seem to be reporting the same story word for word, so presumably it’s a press release? The story explains how one shooter could have used two weapons, so presumably the official narrative has two weapons? Otherwise why would they bother saying this?
2. ReCognito wrote: Doesn’t matter cause if it was solved already tommorrow the conspirationists in here will never accept it as the truth, so the debate/ search will keep on going
This a big lie, and is often repeated in various guises. The truth is in fact the opposite: so-called “conspiracy theories” always die when the truth is told. Hillsborough will go away now, for example.
2. ReCognito wrote: I admit i’m spook-related. And I won’t be here when/if the case is solved in public
Thanks for the admission, truly. After so many denials it is refreshing.
I was interested to note that “John” and “Interested” both started with the “loony tunes” accusations shortly after this admission. Not sure if there’s any connection?
3. Re lack of powder tests/blood tests on RAFman (who was questioned for just 6 hrs, whereas Al H’s brother got 4 days interrogation?!?) I think it is safer to assume the negative as he never said anything about being tested – but he did say he was interviewed. I think he would have mentioned being tested, if he was. (But of course that doesn’t prove it.)
4. Bajer wrote: I don’t think RAF man was sure it was in reverse because he moved the 7 year old and Mollier from in front of the car in case the car lurched forward
And – at least according to his narrative – he didn’t know the people in the car were dead at that point, so they could have put it in gear and driven over them.
Makes me wonder… if he didn’t *know* they were dead, why would he have thought “the car might lurch forward”, rather than “they might drive over me”?
5. Re no blood splatters, could this be explained by low-power cartridges in 7.65mm as per the Beretta’s used by Flight Marshalls?
6. Pink Panther wrote: When has threads like this solved world class mysteries?
I think they’ve just about cleared up JFK. Sure many would disagree though!
🙂
@Ferret “One of the biggest problems so far in the Al Hilli case is the 30 secs of automatic gunfire initially reported as being heard by witnesses. Neither RAFman nor PD reports hearing any shots at all, and they were really close to the killings. Big oops IMHO. Let’s see what they come up with to explain that.”
What if the “witnesses” were wrong and RAF man etc were right. It doesnt suit your agenda to read it like that does it? Considering shooter likely had a silencer how could witnesses on camp site hear anything.
Logic!
5. Re no blood splatters, could this be explained by low-power cartridges in 7.65mm as per the Beretta’s used by Flight Marshalls?
IMHO, more likely explanation is that dead people just don’t bleed that much. Moreover, I am pretty sure that the killer used standard FMJ ball ammunition. Looking at the image of the shot-up BMW, one can see that two shots were fired through the windscreen from outside. One missed and went high, hit the windscreen top-centre and exited through the roof panel on the righ-hand side. The other went in low over the instrument pod and probably hit the driver square in the chest or head.
Likewise, there are two exit holes in the B- and C-pillar of the BMW (those pink spots in the photos). I believe that only full-powered FMJ ammunition would be capable of creating those exit holes after passing first through glass and then (presumably) through a human body.
Hello !
And the all ranting, mountain biking, racecar driving, motorbiking, French contacting, V8 driving “fella” must be sleeping it off….!
So I can get a word in.
Turned off last night before it got “looney” and caught up now (!).
Who was it that first reported the 30 secs of gunfire heard ?
PD didn’t hear it (but in a car), nor did BM, nor did Fillion-Roby.
I imagine *he had fired in bursts into the car (once or four times noting the windows)…and then shot them in the “coup de grace”. (6 single shots)
Also the same for Mr Mollier. (a “burst” and 2 single shots).
That’s not really a “30 second burst”.
Possibly “30 seconds of shooting”.