My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Peter.
Could well be.
He seems a “big cheese” there.
Working in China and previously Iran.
Would those people checker her out, knowing his wife’s name ?
I suppose so, if they had worked with him (known him) from the power industry…and she had just “involved” herself in a murder (masacre) case.
Trying to look…and disprove in my mind what I see !
That area has a lot of “Brit’s” living there.
And power industry folk (but near big Co’s / projects, so why not).
I am intrigued by the tree branches on this image. They don’t fall like that and even they do they don’t stay intact ( long and unbroken )…It was a sign left for SH how to park the car…I think…
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/08/article-2200388-14DEF9C4000005DC-848_638x624.jpg
@Sandra, sorry but that’s bunkum.
Tree branches fall in all kind of ways, I do alot of wildlife photogrpahy, hiking, camping in woodland.
One area might be littered with branches like this, another area could have grass or bare earth floor. It depends if the tree’s surrounding it are deciduous or coniferous, how much rain has fallen what kind of wildlife is present.
There are also tree’s which are prone to dropping branches (Beech and Alder), this is because their root systems are close to the surface and they draw less water from the ground, less watr in tree = drier branches = more branches fall off in wind, weight of rain etc
Water butts. Identical to this one:-
http://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/large-blue-water-butts-paignton-5/109207532
Also available on e-bay.
Just because some acid comes in a blue container it doesn’t follow that all blue containers hold acid.
A lot of people collect old pallets for firewood, I do whenever i can get hold of any, but you have to leave them outside to season for a year or so.
@ Bluebird
400 Kg of acid intermediates assumes that those drums are full – which I doubt. Still, it is a heck of a lot – far, far, too much to be used in electronics prototyping. I don’t wish to labour the point, but apart from their potential use in bomb-making, acid intermediates are in fact required for the manufacturing of just about any synthetic drug, right?
… and Switzerland, which is quite close to the site of the murders, would still be the place to purchase controlled precursor chemicals … and a camper van with a nice, middle-class muslim family with kids inside would be just about the perfect vehicle in which to transport drugs one way and controlled precursor chemicals the other.
Well, there is always a danger of falling in love with one’s hypotheses and thus becoming blinkered. Still, to me, that “cook” angle doesn’t sound too far-fetched.
@Kempe, it’s not out of the realms of possibility for these blue vats to be used as water butts. However a water butt needs a tap near the bottom, old dudes pottering around the garden need to fill their watering cans during hosepipe bans, no-one would pick up a 200kg drum full of water and pour from the top.
In the pics and your gumtree listing none of these have taps
On a slightly different tack…the hi res image
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/06/article-2199513-14DF093C000005DC-116_642x899.jpg
Check above the shed door, why would anyone put a security light facing the house from the shed.
This would only make sense if you were planning to use this alot at night and view whoever triggers the PIR sensor from the shed, if this light was triggered and someone in the house was looking for a ‘burglar’ all they would see is a sillouette …
For me the set up of the shed, like the rest of the script so far smells a bit funny.
Dbl Glazing + skylights
Venting
Access Control (possibly, white plastic box to left of front door)
Security measures (Light with sensor)
Curtains
Containers near shed with dubious uses
@james
Ah !
“Les personnes qui ont consulté ce profil, ont également consulté…”
“People who viewed this profile also viewed …”
Probably quite normal.
People are searching her….and looking at others in the “Energy Industry” in France etc !
……………………………………
Quite normal, EXCEPT the “who’s viewed” bit on linkedin doesn’t update for weeks if not months. …so the profile names who have viewed her profile 100% have viewed her profile BEFORE the Al Hilli shootings.
There are a few highly active popular profiles on there that I view frequently (one’s as ex *blush*) and their “who’s viewed” list hasnt changed in months.
@Watcher
Ta – am geosomething myself… I have four and half dogs in constant need of hard walking around nearby forest….the branches on the photos are old – dried out…it does take a long time for the tree branch to dry ….and according to the age of branches in the photo it seems they have been in that state for a while …..dried….Also even if the branches fall on the slope recently – they wouldn’t follow the slope direction …they would follow the tree branches directions…and even if they follow the slope – would they stay in the same position and intact for a long enough to dry if the place a “touristy place”? …Just thinking…
Watcher, Bluebird, Peter
For me this is a leap too far. If he was cooking up drugs or bombs in his admitedly large shed no.2, why leave the chemicals in full view of the neighbours and in easy reach of his daughters? Also why wouldn’t these details have been reported if true?
Why is it so unusual to have a shed / workshop in your garden with double glazing? I’ve been house-hunting recently and seen a few examples of same…
@ Watcher
Given that the neighbours mentioned a system of “elaborate electronic locks” on that shed
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/10/alps-shootings-police-hilli-home-live
it seems a reasonably safe assumption that this is no run-of-the-mill garden shed.
Anyway, you guys keep up the great sleuthing. Goodbye for now and greetings from Germany 🙂
There’s even a black cable running from the house to just under the eave of the shed on the right hand side.
If you were running electricity to an outbuilding you would dig a small trench and have a cable running through this safely out of the way, especially with young girls running around.
Therefore this could be a phone line for a separate broadband connection but given the distance this could be done wirelessly, or it could be that the shed is cctv’d up with a feed running back to the house.
Wonder if the house has a cctv system? To the right of the drain pipe (front left corner of house) there is a small black object which fits the rough shape of a camera
@Sandra, appreciate what your saying but for me, in an area which is clearly managed by a local forestry commission any unusual looking branches are a red herring. One of the early shots of police on the way to the scene showed a pile of old logs left to season, also the road barrier/signage indicated that further access was only allowed for residents and forestry …therefore clearly a well managed area in terms of forestry.
@Bishop I’m not fanatically convinced there was any use of acid in the back garden, however something was going on in that shed that’s not the usual growing tomato plant cuttings and refuge for quiet cup of tea away from the missus and kids that would be ‘normal’ in surburbia
@Peter cheers, didn’t pick up any elaborate lock references on the shed before …..hmmmmm smelly …..
The first pic on this link :-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200036/French-Alps-shooting-All-victims-France-massacre-shot-twice-head-prosecutor-reveals.html
Shows the cable is from a satellite dish, one cable (blue) goes into the main house, the black cable is flown across the garden and into the shed eaves.
So he’s got skyplus in the shed ? Or another broadband connection ..
@Watcher
me not talking about ‘a pile of old logs left to season” – me talking about two old dried without any leaves branches left in the square position….anyone else help please….
I wonder why somebody needs an acid drum of that size if he doesn’t have a chemical factory. Perhaps somebody with chemical background could give us a clue about the possible private usage of such a 200 kg drum of chemicals?
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He must have an enlarger in the shed, does his own developing. 🙂
@peter
I would not rule out the possibility that they were “cooking” in that garden shed.
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Smearing the man again, who served for Queen and Country in 2003.
Do you think SAH was highly intelligent or not?
Do you *seriously* expect us to swallow your guff that he was making a dirty bomb in his SHED? Whe SAH KNEW he was being monitored back in the day, and would always be monitored?
I think you do expect us to believe this new fairytale.
If SAH were to go cooking, it would NOT be in his shed. :rolleyes:
@peter
which to me really does look like a drug deal gone bad, and nothing like a state-sanctioned execution
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You couldn’t be MORE obvious if you tried mate. 🙂
OH YES and make no mistake! A mini-battalion of 20+ spooks from Legoland PLUS all the French Diplomatic service hot foot it via Apache Attack helicopters to La Chavaline sur le Mort, all just to score some weed, eh??? 🙂
Oh YES, SAH sneaks off to the remote woods, with his WHOLE FAMILY 🙂 to buy some GANJA, innit, from a FROGGY dealer! Yes, of course (smacks himself on head) – Sylvain *must* have been the DEALER! Another meandering gang of GANJA merchants got miffed at the invasion of their TURF, by that swarthy black fellow SAH :), and blasted away, GANGSTA- style, innit! 🙂
Epic fail mate. 🙂
“If SAH were to go cooking, it would NOT be in his shed”
Exactly…
Ive been lurking in the background for a few days sometimes with interest and sometimes amusement at the more interesting sugestions, but the above takes the biscuit. The above is nothing but pure unadulterated crap. An infrared camera pointed a ta TV screen will not reveal anything about a person displayed on that screen, the image on the TV is only pixels it in no way relates to the body heat or condition of the subject.
Anders I can only assume you are badly confused about whatever you saw or you are lieing in order to enhance youre credibility. ultimutly you are just misleading others and damaging credibility.
Misinformation like this will not help the truth.
On Topic
Has it been considered that rather than pistol whipped (initial report) the girl was (inadvertently) struck by the fast moving 4×4.
“it seems a reasonably safe assumption that this is no run-of-the-mill garden shed.”
Thefts from garden sheds are not uncommon and in fact are on the increase. The shed has also been described as a workshop but either way it could contain a lot of expensive tools. I don’t regard it as sinister or suspicious that anyone would want to project them.
“no-one would pick up a 200kg drum full of water and pour from the top.”
Even less likely they’d do so with a drum full of acid. Either could be scooped, pumped or syphoned.
Interesting how these drums have been accepted as containing acid by some and any suggestion they might not is rejected out of hand. There’s no conspiracy to be built around an innocent explanation so there HAS to be something dodgy going on. Do you not think that if they contained something nasty the police would have removed them for further examination?
Shed Analysis
I’ve summarised links and key points for those that don’t want to trawl through the whole thread, wheat from chaff etc.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/06/article-2199513-14DF093C000005DC-116_642x899.jpg
= Hi Res pic of back garden
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2200036/French-Alps-shooting-All-victims-France-massacre-shot-twice-head-prosecutor-reveals.html
= Rear view of house leading to back garden
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/10/alps-shootings-police-hilli-home-live
= Guardian report mentioning elaborate locks.
So from all this we have :-
Dbl Glazing + skylights
Venting
Access Control (possibly, white plastic box to left of front door)
Security measures (Light with sensor)
Satellite feed into shed (additional broadband and/or tv)
Curtains
Containers near shed with potentially dubious uses
Before I shut up about the shed one last point.
Security light on the shed above door, but main house from all angles has no visible security lighting. This guy valued the contents of his shed more than the contents of his house.
re: the all mod cons shed.
Remember the brother lived there until recently. Maybe this was his domain, so I don’t attach much significance to it. Certainly not HARD EVIDENCE of a suburban drugs factory, and nothing to link it up to drug dealing imho.
Anyway the police have checked the place out with a fine tooth comb, so they will know.
I still think zircaloy is the key.
couple of other things occurred to me
BM saw the vehicles coming from the scene shortly before he chanced upon it. So when he’d seen what really happened, surely next logical thought would have been “those vehicles were fleeing scene, therfore contained the perps”. Where else could they have come from? Yet he was scanning the woods for the shooter? Did anyone apart from BM report seeing the 4×4 and bike?
Also maybe totally irrelevant so apologies in advance, but the AH’s left it very late to have kids…(50, 47, 7, 4)
* felix
5. Re no blood splatters, could this be explained by low-power cartridges in 7.65mm as per the Beretta’s used by Flight Marshalls?
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Note below that Mossad kidon teams were based very nearby, in GENEVA.
No, whoever did it wanted ample power, really no need to use a lower powder cartridge. I only mentioned Skymarshalls because various derailing numpties here kept saying Mossad don’t use Berettas FFS.
They do, and I posted lots of info about their use, the super secret Mossad Metsada group use kidon teams – already highly experienced and tested under fire, they train for a further 2 years in the Negev desert so that shooting an 8 round Beretta becomes second nature to them, they have complete muscle memory and can do it in the dark, upside down, makes no difference. The full article is in Tactical Life magazine and it is their signature calling card, used in hits the world over, for decades.
After the Munich Olympics massacre, Mossad activated its assassination unit, known as the kidon – Hebrew for “bayonet.” Kidon teams have been responsible for a number of high profile assassinations, including Dr. Gerald Bull, designer of the Iraqi supergun, and Nasser Issa, also known as “The Engineer,” a master bombmaker for the terrorist group HAMAS. These teams would be commanded by Mike Harari, a senior Mossad agent.
At the time of the Munich attack, the kidon were housed within Mossad’s Metsada department, known today as Komemiute. The kidon was composed of approximately 36 operators divided into three 12-man teams. Typically, two of these teams were undergoing training in Israel at any given time, with the remaining team out on a “real-world” operation. Payment for these personnel was deposited into Swiss bank accounts and would be made available to the operators upon completion of their assigned mission.
These teams were unique from those fielded previously by Israel. Instead of informing all operators involved in the operation of the goals, team structure, and other information, the teams were instead tightly compartmentalized: no team was aware of the existence of the others. Additionally, Mossad covertly supported the assassination teams, both operationally and financially. In this way, they would be able to operate with complete autonomy, completely outside the Israeli governmental structure. The only mutual point of contact between all the personnel was Harari. He would provide the list of target names and all other information necessary to achieving the group’s goal of hunting down and killing the terrorists.
Harari allowed his men great latitude in their operations, removing rank structure and encouraging them to be creative with their assassinations. Harari didn’t just want his targets eliminated, he wanted the terrorists to feel that there was nowhere – absolutely nowhere – that they could go and feel safe from Israeli reprisal. He wanted them to experience the same terror they had inflicted on the Israeli athletes and their families, and would settle for nothing less.
Harari did have one rule, however, about which there could be no doubt: targets would only be acted against after the team had attained one hundred percent identification. If this could not be achieved, no matter how much time or energy had been devoted to a target, the hit was to be called off. He would not permit any “collateral damage.”
The List
There were thirty-five targets for whom death warrants had been issued, so the terrorists were divided amongst the teams. On the list of one such team were eleven terrorists known to have played a role in the Munich massacre.
Operating from a covert location in Geneva, this team set out to track down their eleven targets. These included the following:
*Adwan, Kamal – Chief of sabotage operations for Al Fatah in Israeli occupied territories
*Al-Chir, Hussein Abad – PLO contact with KGB in Cyprus
*Al-Kubaisi, Dr. Basil Paoud – Responsible for logistics within the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
*Boudia, Mohammed – Linked with European PLO
*Daoud, Abu – Admitted member of the Black September Organization
*Haddad, Dr. Wadi – Chief terrorist linked with Dr. George Habash
*Mahshari, Mohmoud – PLO member and coordinator of Munich incident
*Nassir, Kamal – Official PLO spokesman and member of the PLO Executive Committee
*Salameh, Ali Hassan – Developed and executed the Munich operation
*Yussuf, Abu – High ranking PLO official
*Zwaiter, Wael – Cousin to Yassir Arafat, organizer of PLO terrorism in Europe
@Eman
but the above takes the biscuit. The above is nothing but pure unadulterated crap. An infrared camera pointed a ta TV screen will not reveal anything about a person displayed on that screen, the image on the TV is only pixels it in no way relates to the body heat or condition of the subject.
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No shit Sherlock! 😉
It was a JOKE my dear… :rolleyes: 🙂
@user name
4×4 hits child.
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(wink) 😉
Gotta try harder mate! You’ll be demoted again to chief tea boy if you keep up all these EPIC FAILS. 🙂
@felix
Or Brett Martin’s words “I could have done a sort of fireman’s lift and taken her down to my bike”
Down???
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Indeed.
And even if he ripped SAH’s bike off the roof, and was genuinely playing Mr Hero, it would be nigh on impossible to keep the child over his shoulder whilst negotiating downhill terrain on an MTB – it’s possible I suppose, but very hard, he would IMO have crashed.