My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Anyone remember Gareth Williams, the Maths prodigy who was found dead in a sports holdall in a bath tub?
According to Ch4, he made unauthorised searches (hacks) – but this case is very similar.
According to the Daily Mail, Mr al-Hilli was on a ‘blacklist’ if that’s the case then Mo$$ad are working in cahoots with BritSpooks!
Anders,
Where are you getting 43 shots from. Do you have a link?
Why did the killer leave ?
A jammed ?
No Amo ?
Convinced all were dead (surely the 4 yr old was crying by now ?).
OR … He didn’t leave ???
He was still there…or had died already ?
Lets face it, if some party wanted to “out” an internal risk, then I would need a pretty good “honeytrap” to do this.
And if my opporsition had (lets say) aquired something they knew little about….like a “U.S. Drone”
And I had a specialist in the “spy satelite” industry.
Who hated America.
Was an ex “Iraqi”.
And a Muslim.
Well that would make an excellent “false flagger” to me.
If my “plan” went as expected, then….
“Cyclist Shot Dead In Forest. Police Hunt Underway”
….would be the headline in Le Monde.
And within a week, all of Paris would struggle to remember his name. Cold case…. Job done…..!
I read somewhere (News coverage) that his wife had said he was “riding a new route”.
Now when I look, there’s nada.
I like “early” news reports. Things often “pop out”.
James,
No reason to assume 4 yr old was crying. She kept silent for hours afterwards we are told because she didn’t know who the “good guys and bad guys were”. Last words she heard from her mother were probably a whispered “stay quiet”.
Or she…
If the French cyclist was indeed the target, as DenPenn suggests above, the story makes even less sense. Earlier posts (including my own) illustrate that the French cyclist would have arrived on the scene an absolute maximum of a couple of minutes before the RAF cyclist.
If the French cyclist was the target, he’d have to be killed the moment he arrived. Then this family show up in the BMW and have to be destroyed too, can’t leave witnesses and all that. So all this goes down in barely over a minute, then the hit-men clear off, without the RAF guy hearing anything at all.
Surely any hit-squad would be familiar enough with amnesia drugs, such as Versed (pronounced Verse-Ed, alternatively called Midazolam), which are pretty easy to apply and wipe out all memories from the past 15 minutes or so? It seems likely something like Versed was employed in cases where victims/ witnesses have a mysterious and total lack of memory.
They wouldn’t have to kill everyone – just get the drug administered at gunpoint if necessary. So it seems far more likely they wanted all of them dead, they also wanted to send a message, and RAF-man – a guy with apparently impeccable credentials, although anonymous – had to be in on it.
About the four year-old… anyone consider it totally remarkable that she managed to stay quiet and still for such a protracted period? Anyone ever known a 4yo to obey a whispered “Be quiet” under any circumstances, let alone one as dramatic as this?
Hi Bajer
I have a very good memory and I remember the following
15
25
30
43
Like a progression series
This was absolutely NO lone gunman whatsoever
And probably more “magic bullets” to come.
A reference to Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby.
French cyclists wife not reporting him missing
-The French cyclist was on paternity leave so perhaps the mother was pre-occupied with a young baby. Wouldnt you need your husband to come back to give you a rest from the baby.
I hope someone has checked that baby is with mother ok.
“Stay quiet”…..
And then an arch reverse… with an impact and shattering glass ?
Was Al Hilli lured there…..?
OR
Was Al Hilli indeed the “lure” ?
Anders,
Where are you getting 43 shots from. Do you have a link?
Alas no, but I heard it yesterday. I also heard 30 shots mentioned. Now the batardz are settling on 25 to fit their massaged fairytale.
Btw they must be laughing their arses off at this thread.
I’ve never see so many shills in my life on two threads!
Craig’s problem is he doesn’t require registration, so anyone can make up a name and donald@duck id and post, even impersonate others.
Dearie me.
Anders7777,
The only reference to 43 shots I have seen is in posts from you. There doesn’t seem to be any other source for this.
So if you have a very good memory, where did you hear or see 43?
Anders7777,
People can post any number they want in forums and I’ve seen numbers pulled out of the air elsewhere. I have never seen a figure higher than 25 mentioned by the French authorities. If you have then that’s interesting but a link would be helpful.
Am I missing something here? We only have the ex-RAF guy’s word about the timing of the French cyclist and this thread clearly has that guy still on the suspect list.
Fabulous thread. Major relief to read genuine attempts to make sense of what info is available, here and elsewhere, after the opportunistic crap of some so-called crime reporters.
Attention of all spook agencies should be drawn to this thread so that when they come up with their story they will have to have covered all the points raised here. That should keep them busy for a while.
“A reference to Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby”.
But that was fab.
They released an edit of the “film” !
The car stopped. They took that out.
For a laugh YouTube it, then watch the windscreen go behind the sign…and come out again.
Hence…here to, an “ex RAF man” !
It’s all in clear view.
Glenn, I posted this on David Icke yesterday:-
Doesnt the 4 year olds ‘good men from bad men’ mean that her father often used that language to describe people in front of his daughter. Perhaps even telling her that if there is a bad man around she must stay quiet and still for as long as possible. When you are 4, an hours car journey seems like a lifetime. So unless she has had it stressed time and time again how vital staying quiet may be to her.
Children are usually taught dont talk to strangers but not that the world has good men and bad men unless she has been in such situations before. Poor child.
The 43 shots originated here:- http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1061031408
(post 350, later picked up on by Anders7777)
the French police still say 25 shots.
The answer may be difficult but in my opinion the question is simple;
Iran, Iraq or Israel?
For all the failings of the West’s intelligence services they don’t do this sort of stuff, unless perhaps your surname is Bin Laden. (May the good Lord in whatever guise look after those two children.)
Anders,
The mods have all our IP addresses and we’ll all be getting Ipsos MORI surveys at our door. Well I did this afternoon. I’ll assume this is coincidence unless half the posters on the thread chime in with same 🙂
How “slow” was “Mr Ex RAF man” going….when he was overtaken ???
Daniel… I quote
“Iran, Iraq or Israel?”
OR British ?
This whole case is bizarre. So much of what we “know” relies on the word of the Ex-RAF chap, as Polo says above.
As soon as the neighbour came out and started talking about this guy’s finances I smelt a rat. Not only is it thoroughly un-British to discuss such matters (let alone other people’s), but surely it is prejudicial to any legal case or police investigation? So what was the motive?
The shed pantomine this morning was something else! 🙂
Have been looking at various crime photos from Europe (less squeamish than our press) and reading some US sites and it looks like the windscreen has been shot at with fan like crazing coming out from the impact. Some 32 rounds (FMJ) can penetrate windscreens but unlikely that hollow point could. However hollow points may be less likely to exit the body mean no exit wound blood, only from the entry so most blood may be on the victims but depending on the type/load of ammo (ie that used by Air Marshalls) the entry may be small and the bullet stays in the victim. Angle of the shot looks a bit ropey though if the shooter was standing (almost in the dash).
The only blood I think I can see trails down the back seat onto the seat pad. Strange why passenger seat is empty but if SAH had been here for some time then wife possibly may have changed seats to talk to mother.
Mainstreams are now claiming the work of a single shooter. If this was “tip of the spear” would expect at least two shooters. Can’t get my head around the number of cases though. If this was single shooter possibly chatol, using say a 12 shot Beretta then we are looking at two reloads. Is the whole 30 second gunfire thing valid? If so then we have 12 shots accounted for in wounds, were the al Hillis hit anywhere other the the head? Now if our shooter was trained in the Negev they don’t spend two years learning how to waste shots. These guys are cold, once the driver is down then quickly hit the others but he would have to be very special to hit both wmen twice in the head from one side of the car so maybe he moved round the car all this takes time. Doesn’t explain why clean for the al Hillis but five shots for the cyclist? Main target?
or ‘local lunatic’
“I maintain that such calculated murder of young children is not a characteristic of western-trained soldiers.” Milton.
Once again, as with the excellent commentator, Durak on the previous thread relating to this subject, may I suggest we look in detail at some of the things which some “western-trained soldiers” have done over the years. And we would be taking about assassination squads, ex-Special Forces and/or ‘Ollie’s Army’. In fact, let’s look at what “western-trained soldiers” – mercenaries and regular troops – have done in Africa during C20th and onwards. And in Northern Ireland (much of which we hear little about). I cannot see how we can retain such illusions. I understand why we would want to – my God, it is difficult to comprehend how anyone could do such things to anyone, let alone a child. It is sickening to any person with an iota of humanity. But such people who do such things have jettisoned their humanity long ago. They’d have to, to do what they do – damn them to Hell (whoever they were/are).
Ian,
Thanks. Post 349 by Velma (from Scooby Doo) seems to be source of “43” . Arrived at by
So just added a calculated number to the stated 25.
I also wish people would avoid the British ex-snooker commentator’s site. His mixture of serious and nonsense material serves only to discredit the former by association. And associating CM’s site with the British ex-snooker commentator’s site risks discrediting the CM site by association.
“Have been looking at various crime photos from Europe (less squeamish than our press) and reading some US sites and it looks like the windscreen has been shot at with fan like crazing coming out from the impact”
Suggests car was reversing in an arch.
Driver “disabled”, hence the mud on the rear wheels. (BMW Dynamic control really works. as the other side shut off !)