My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Anders7777
but seriously, what is in the big bags? Picnic for grandma in the forest? Toys for the children to play with in the isolated car park?
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Sleep, sleep, I neeeed sleep!
MORT tomorrow 🙂
@Anders!
RAOFL – literally! Thanks. Brilliant.
I’m wasted here. No James, not literally! 🙂
G’night Felix, 😉
Hi Haden
rvices are trained extensively in how to ‘hide in plain sight’, fit in with their surroundings, be instantly forgettable (maybe not US secret service, the dark glasses and ear-pieces are a sure-fire giveaway). So current or ex, whichever agency or not, if they’re SS trained in the field, your unlikely to notice them. Mossad also get caught out more than most.
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@hades
Its been very fun dealing with you, and I respect you, and your knowledge, you know you shit. We all play poker to one extent or another, and you have a majorely obvious TELL that leads me to believe that you are not a pro, but an interested observer.
The tell also pinpoints yo to the GLP thread.
Anyone else spot @hades’ “tell”???
More in a bitz.
@hades
@Anders
You are bloody cryptic aren’t you! Tent pegs?
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Yes, tent pegs. Come OOOONNN Hades, fess up, it will not blow any cover at all! 🙂
The Mirror seem to blow apart the D-Notice theory today. They have a mate of SAH going on about his anti-Israeli rants and speculating that Mossad did it !
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/french-alps-shooting-islamic-rants-1326315
Wording of alleged D notice –
Today (06.09.2012) at 0750 we received information that a Defence Advisory Notice or ‘D Notice’ was in effect with regard to certain facts about this story.
No mention of his links to the Security Services
No mention of his links to Iran
No mention of his links to nuclear weapons research
No speculation regarding Israel involvement in the killing
Anders7777, do you ever sleep? Even lizards sleep. you know. This is the longest-ever thread on this blog (I think). A veritable serpent. 🙂
Stephen Dedalus…?
The family picnic is a well-used espionage cover. Whether we are talking a criminal or political assassination, it seems clear that whatever he was doing there, Al-Hilli thought he was completely safe, that he had been reassured by someone he knew and trusted. I’ve said this before on this thread, but there does seem to be a mixture of both untidy (and Peter’s input seems to suggest this) and professional aspects to this killing. Perhaps the killer wasn’t expecting the whole family to turn up, the kid outside the car, the cyclist (was Al-Hilli meeting with him?) possibly trying to escape. Either that, or they wanted it to look semi-professional, to throw investigators off the trail. If you remember, when MOSSAD killed the Hamas man in Dubai, they waved at the cameras. People – including me – were saying, oh it can’t be MOSSSAD, it’s sloppy, they wouldn’t identify themselves like that! Well, it turned out that it was MOSSAD and they were being arrogant, sending out a message of impunity and power and it may be that they change their modus operandum, varying what they do.
Nonetheless, this seems redolent more of mafia killings in Italy, say, Camorra, N’Drangheta, Cosa Nostra, or indeed Russian/Albanian, etc. mafia killings. One would’ve thought, though, that those organisations would’ve had a team of killers, machine-guns, or multiple weapons with silencers, or (easier still) a bomb under the car or even in his house in England, not just a guy with a gun, bashing a kid over the head and so on. This is more like the London underworld, or someone hired from there to do ‘a job’. But who knows? We’re all guessing, really.
@mark
The Mirror seem to blow apart the D-Notice theory today. They have a mate of SAH going on about his anti-Israeli rants and speculating that Mossad did it !
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Good thinking.
Any of the other UK mainstreams reporting the article too?
Could be the Mirror has already breached a D notice previously so, since its not getting its invites to press conferences and other snippets at the mo, is printing what it likes.
Or…there wasnt any D notice.
Just checked, and so far nothing in the UK is reporting that Mirror story.
This just out from the Telegraph. Saying gun was a Luger?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9545251/Gun-in-Annecy-killing-may-be-connected-to-the-region.html
DM aricle re MI5 investigating SSTL?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203934/Did-gunman-trail-Alps-massacre-victims-way-home-Britain.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
James Barnett at SSTL was reported as refusing to comment. This Telegraph article from the early days after the shootings quotes a “friend” called James.
I have a hunch the James is James Barlett.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9525672/France-shooting-Victim-Saad-Al-Hilli-was-a-bright-engineer-and-a-perfect-father-with-a-loving-family.html
Mark wrote yesterday:
Take a look at the topology of the place
Any water running down the mountainside will inevitably continue its way under the gravel (which — hey presto — is there in order to make the lay in dry) and into the stream, along which the road is built in the first place. Therefore any bare soil between the mountainside and the gravel are bound to be rather moist. I think any people living near mountains could confirm that.
Does anyone find it odd,that a computer whiz such as AH should write a dead tree letter to anyone ?
Why are there foot prints/marks on the bonnet of the car ? That’s what they look like to me.
This is Gary Aker’s employer I think
http://www.linkedin.com/company/atk
Found a reference too to Atkins (engineering/construction) so Gary Aked could work (or have worked) at Atkins or ATK…or both.
He’s listed as a senior engineer anyway
So the gun used was a P08 in calibre 7,65 x 21 Para
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9545251/Gun-in-Annecy-killing-may-be-connected-to-the-region.html
That is a historical weapon, a collectors’ item at least 67 years old (production ceased in 1945, and the Swiss Army replaced it in 1949)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_P08_pistol
Are there still any takers for the idea that this was a Mossad hit?
@Eman Ruse ”
Also, no photos of Mollier, comment from friends or family etc. Highly unusual if he was an innocent local in the wrong place at the wrong time who may have bravely tried to intervene rather than turn and cycle back down that hill like the wind.”
Not unusual his family have requested privacy,no reason to release his photo,considering all things I dont blame them for keeping out of spotlight.
“His family are not releasing photographs of him and they are not speaking to the media.”
http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/chevaline-the-forgotten-victim-sylvain-mollier/
There was no Cat D notice,it was just some paranoid blogger who started the rumour.
Rather unusual topic from the Mirror. But blunt and therefore refreshing:-)
The story about Al Hilli‘s utterings on the internet is rather interesting. Slightly unusual for a family man, I should think , to spend hours in chatrooms in this way, and nothing that he ever mentioned to any neighbour. [In the old days, you wouldn’t hide your political views for the people you lived amongst, but be proud of them and talk open about them. He seems to have been a misfit living in that posh area. I should think his posh neighbours would be rather interested in knowing his views about the Queen, for example, and why he did not attend the Jubilee celebrations]. This “misfit” role seems to have been enhanced after his fathers death and the troubles between the two brothers – stemming from the rather unusual situation that SAH as youngest brother ends up with the house and the greater wealth.
His best friend Gary knew about his views though, and suggests that someone on the net could have gotten really angry about them, and that this could be a motive for the murders.
Both the CIA and the British intelligence services would have followed him in those chat rooms.
Gary points to Mossad but in my view it is highly unlikely that Mossad would carry out such a crime [But they could have identified who those views belonged to and communicated it to the British and the CIA] if the only grunt against him were mere utterings concerning the plight of the Palestinians or the excessive influence of The Israel lobby on U.S. Foreign Policy and the like. After all these views are shared by many millions of people, not surprising for an Arab to hold, and they are perfectly legitimate to have. But it is anyway altogether new and refreshing that a mainstream media so bluntly should start babbling about Mossad and its role in the killings. As I said, its role may not be so straightforward as to be directly involved in the killings, but could have a role in the information gathering.
@ john
Not unusual his family have requested privacy,no reason to release his photo,considering all things I dont blame them for keeping out of spotlight.
“His family are not releasing photographs of him and they are not speaking to the media.”
There was no Cat D notice,it was just some paranoid blogger who started the rumour.
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You forgot to add the words “I THINK” there was no D notice…. maybe there was, maybe there wasnt. I’m waiting with interest to see if any other UK rags report on that Gary Aked article.
Not unusual for the family to request privacy.
HIGHLY unusual that the press haven’t printed even ONE photo of him regardless.
@ John
Completely in agreement re D notice (see my previous post)
Re Mollier Thought it may be family choice so thanks for the cvonfirm
@ Dopey
The wife (French) informs me that if they publish pictures of mollier the familly can sue and will win.
Nb she says so will Kate & Wills but here the paper thinks profits will outweigh the fine.
Eman Ruse,
What would the fine be for printing a photo of Mollier far less than Kate and surely a seller for papers in France and elsewhere.
@ srawberry
I dont think she meant it would be a smaller fine, just that so many people would by the magazine just for the pics it would be worth it.
I get the impression the magazine is akin to our more sleazy tabloids / gossip mags at their worst.
The french are also a little less tolerant of big brother and public naming. privacy is much more respected.
I suspect that 2 yrs ago it would have been in all the papers in the UK but following requests for Kates privacy and then the phone hacking business. I suspect the UK papers are concerned ther will be a massive public backlash.
@ eman ruse
The wife (French) informs me that if they publish pictures of mollier the familly can sue and will win.
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LOL. erm ok.
If the wife wants justice then surely releasing just one photo to the press would do nothing but help that aim? How can anyone in that area who may have seen him that day know it was Sylvain they saw, without a picture to give them a clue? Weird.
@ eman
I suspect that 2 yrs ago it would have been in all the papers in the UK but following requests for Kates privacy and then the phone hacking business. I suspect the UK papers are concerned ther will be a massive public backlash.
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err have you not seen the photos of a naked Prince Harry plastered all over the UK press pages in recent weeks?
An Italian mag has 200 pics of topless Kate and has a 26 page spread apparently out tomorrow.
There’s a big difference between publishing pics of a woman’s tits and publishing ONE pic of a murder victim.
You have a point and obviously who knows but pure speculation on my part.
He will be known to the locals – so picture not required and perhaps his photo was taken round the tourists by the French plod.
note though there are differences in culture to consider.
For example France does not have a crimestoppers programe and the police release nothing to the press if at all possible.
Even the suggestion of a crimestopper type programe is met with scorn “How do We know the press wont misuse this Etc”
The culture is very much not my business, so perhaps they feel the releasing the picture will not help.
How would the poor guy not rant about the Iraq war and rail against Israel? As an Iraqi, he was the victim, not the aggressor. It would have been remarkable if he had not spoken bitterly against it and ranting in chat rooms would be a way of venting his anger and letting off steam.
@ kathy
I agree Kathy. I was a tad more interested in the unnamed cousin mentioned in that article who said look to who he worked for to find who killed him.
I reckon he must have had to have security clearance to do work for Surrey Satellites. Looking on Linkedin I’ve found several engineers all working there who say they’re security cleared. One (Juan Pedro Mediano Alameda) mentions he had security clearance to work on the Galiano project with access to classified docs (bragging much Juan Pedro?).
If Saad DIDNT have security clearance, why not? In his line of work its highly desirable to currently have it, particularly for contractor jobs when clearance isn’t quickly got.