My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Watcher.
That’s fine by me. I have no problem with that at all.
James you muppet it shows the latest visitors on the website! Be told.
Ok , so if this IS the right Sylvain, and he’s a skilled bow hunter, he would have been used to the sounds of the forest and probably hunting rifles.
So if he was 300metres away at the time of the shooting (?) he would have heard the shots , therefore likely to have been a silenced weapon.
Otherwise he would have turned round and gone back down the hill, as upto 25 shots in fairly quick succession could not be interpreted as normal hunting.
Early reporting of Mollier in the French Press.
http://www.lalsace.fr/actualite/2012/09/07/le-cycliste-a-peut-etre-sauve-la-vie-de-la-petite-fille-blessee
Flags flown at half-mast at the factory. Family go to ground. Rest of town/factory tight lipped….
La famille de Sylvain Mollier, le cycliste savoyard retrouvé mort à côté de la voiture, à Chevaline, a choisi de rester à l’écart des médias et de ne divulguer aucune information, ni photo à son sujet. Une discrétion qui semble à l’image du disparu et qu’ont adoptée de nombreux d’Ugine (Savoie) depuis l’annonce du drame…
Sylvain Mollier, it is reported there,had also chosen to take 3 years’ parental leave!
@Straw
Interesting find re Mollier. Note though it lists on the archery site his location as Mandeure, at least 200k north of Geneva, his listed phone no. tallies with the location also. Unless the site’s out of date, probably not the same guy. Pretty strange coincidence I must admit. Also check the DailyMail if you haven’t already in the last hour. Looks like the press are only now picking up on the ‘he might not just be the innocent bystander’ tip.
James you muppet it shows the latest visitors on the website! Be told”.
But if it’s a VPN ???? Hey ho !
Anyhoos I have to sort out R91’s paperwork through the canal,
Bloomin nightmare the French are ! Xx
My immediate thoughts:-
3 years WOW
Unpaid?
Needs money?
Good find Haden,
I found the photo by searching from 2000 to 2011 so ignoring all of this.
@ james
But if it’s a VPN ???? Hey ho !
Then it just says “an awkward contrary git called “James” visited 4 seconds ago..” 😉
Now if we can be sensible…
“Sylvain Mollier, it is reported there,had also chosen to take 3 years’ parental leave!”
I also picked up on this “way back when”….and thought, wow, three years paid leave (or half paid).
But, is it lost in translation ?
As in “three children” ?
The longer time you get for “the third” ?
Then again, I have also read that Mrs Mollier had two “previously” and this was the “third” but the first to him ?
So simply put, it’s confusing.
How many do they have ? Are they all “their” own ? Was she remarried to him and had a child ?
Any thoughts
Then it just says “an awkward contrary git called “James” visited 4 seconds ago..”
Jeez, these interweb things are damn amazing !
And less of the “contray” you ! You’ve had your moment to I reall ?
“reall” is recall ! Typo on a funny keyboard.
Just Googled French maternity/paternity laws. They can take up to three years unpaid leave.
It is really very odd the way ALL attention has been focused on al Hilli and none whatsoever on the French cyclist. His house wasn’t searched in the full glare of the media nor his background exposed and relatives suspected. Instead, his family was afforded the utmost privacy Even rafman barely gave him a mention. Very very fishy if you ask me. They have succeeded in making al Hilli look like a terrorist in the public eye with their bomb alert and house searches.
Dopey
“Just Googled French maternity/paternity laws. They can take up to three years unpaid leave”
Then are early reports true ?
A chilled guy, three ankle biters….and chummy rides his bike for a couple of hours ?
FEEEELIX !
Thanks.
I thought I had read it.
Sylvain had chosen to take a parental leave of three years may be better able to take care of the child he had had with his wife, a pharmacist at Grignon, and two seniors, born from a previous marriage.
There we go. Three years leave and two born to a previous marraige !
BUT, why granted three years !!!!!
The “new born” is only two months old ????
BOOM !
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204165/Could-French-victim-Alpine-massacre-main-target-French-police-admit-cyclist-led-double-life.html
Here’s the mail article published earlier – suggests Sylvain may have had double life + possibility of team of shooters
That report just has to be wrong…..
OR
…if correct.
That’s why there are no pictures of him, family or etc.
OR… I am running up a blind alley ????
@Kathy
It could be seen to be odd. I think more likely it’s the fact that no-one in the british press seemed too concerned about him at first, “UK Family Massacred!!….oh and some french guy too”. Selling papers is of course the name of the game. The French investigators have been pretty tight lipped over the whole matter as well. Blood from a stone springs to mind. As I said to Straw earlier, the Mail (though I hate to source them) have in the last few hours run a piece posing some of the questions that have been asked about Mollier here.
Got to love the coincidences here if Mollier and ‘ex-RAF chap’ were both innocent passers by as we have been told.
Al-Hilli takes his family up this mountain road dead end for whatever reason. 4 year olds and seventy something grannies are not likely mountain hikers. They are up there for over an hour doing god knows what with no other passers by. Then up pops a gunman who shoots them all and within minutes of each other Mollier, ‘ex-RAF guy’ and 3 French hikers stumble upon the scene.
My gut feeling is that they were waiting to meet someone up there and the kill team was watching waiting for that person to arrive and when they did they struck.
If the Al-Hillis alone were the target why wait until they had been there over an hour before striking? The start of the hit appears to have been triggered by the arrival of Mollier.
@ Haden
Yes you could be right. Also, the Iraqi angle and the two children would add extra interest.
From the mail:
Could be more than 1 gun of the same type. We will know by October!!
Just as Zainab is saying there is only 1 bad man.
We havent had stories and information ever matching at the same time since day 1.
If it was Mollier to be hit…and by an old Luger, the press (other thyan local) would have not reported it.
“Cyclist shot with WWII weapon, manhunt for nutter”.
If it was the Al Hilli’s…why use such a small pistol ?
So Mollier ?
There was a report that he was on a “new route” ????
A local cyclist ? A known access point to “The Alps” and this is “new” ???
If this is the case…come back Anders, all is forgiven !
Right tent, wrong desert !
You wouldn’t need a big hit team for one man would you ?
I think the ‘New route’ that Sylvain was taking must have come from the wife at the police station with his photo when he was 5 mins late for his tea
@felix @anybody “Facts. All info about Mollier, where he lives, what he looks like kept secret from the French and world press. Period.”
Proof? Any reason why they should reveal any of the above? The family want privacy end of.
“Ditto photos of Mrs Dentist. Mrs Granny.”
Not relevant,the police/family dont need to release photos of every Tom DIck HArry just to please rabid forum nutters.
“Not so Mr Al Hilli.”
Bit difficult when they are pulling his house apart.
“Funeral of French citizen allegedly assasinated in cold blood kept secret.”
See my comment above. Why should they publish date ,time ,place of his funeral? Just to appease forum nutters? If you can give good reason, do so.
If Police wanted to keep cyclist secret the could have not mentioned him or no tnamed him.
“Move along please, nothing to see.”
Certainly nothing suspicious.
Still unreported whether or not sylvain mollier was a muslim. That is a key issue for most conspiracy theories regarding mollier. Could anybody find out? E.g.style of funeral or graveyard?
Regarding the girl hiding in the car: they were shias, that means that the women were covered top to toe with a black turqa. A little kid can easily hide below such a turqa fabrics.
About the elder girl. I guess that she was in the car. Likely the father in front was shot first. Girl panics and huggs her mother and gets the next shot into her shoulder. The little girl hidds below her mothers turqa. Then the two women were shot dead. Killer is not interested in the girl. While he returns to his car the elder girl leaves the car running away and runs into the car of the driving killer, being injured in her face and skull by the car.
That is just a theory but pretty realistic.
Mollier: i dont accept that he was a random victim. He would never have been that close next to the car if he were accidentally there. If he were exactly in front of that car by accident, the killer would have waited some minutes before he began with his assasination. In case he arrived during the assasination, then there are two unlogic facts why he would be in front of the car.
1. He would have seen the massacre at least 100 meters before he arrived. Usually, if you dont have a gun, you would try to escape as soon as possible. Runnung or cycling into the opposite directions or hiding in the woods. Whatver, but certainly not cycling right in front to the killer. 2. Also the killer would not wait until sylvain were in front of himself. That would get critical for the killer because he would definitely not like to wrestle that guy. Therfore the killer woild shoot him at least in a distance of 25 to 40 meters apart of the car.
That scene looks like sylvain arrived with a paraglider from heaven if in fact he were an accident victim. Given the position of his body in front of that car he was no accident victim, but he was part of the dcene, likely meeting al hilli for some reason and deliberately on the list of that killer.
Watcher,
“I think the ‘New route’ that Sylvain was taking must have come from the wife at the police station with his photo when he was 5 mins late for his tea”
It was an early report…and I thought “hello”.
And IF it’s true, it’s damn strange.
VPN remains on ! As if it is Mollier…and the Al Hilli’s got caught up in it, these guys mean serious business.
Where is Anders ?
@Kathy @Haden
“the Mail (though I hate to source them) have in the last few hours run a piece posing some of the questions that have been asked about Mollier here.”
So I guess one of the lurkers here is a DM hack ??
Perhaps it was still one man….but he had a couple of guns?
(now have visions of John Wayne wearing a double holster)
We still don’t know for defo it WAS a luger…or a Skorpion. Since we’ve had two reports on the gun now it could be either, or neither.
The Skorpion sounds more plausable than the Luger (and I can’t believe I actually now now the difference, and the pro’s and con’s of a bloody Luger)