My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@ ferret
There is no doubt that Al-Hilli had a meetiung with somebody at the lonely parking lot in Annecy mountains, a very lonely and secluded environment. People living there said when being interviewed, that this is NOT AN area where tourists are usually going because there is nothing to see nor anything to do nor to walk at the end of that street. One of the local abutters said, that they had never seen any tourist families with children driving up that road because this is no place for children for walking nor for doing anything else there.
……………………..
Contrast that with RAFman saying the area was in fact very popular, and that usually 4-6 cars were parked in that car park. He said he’d been there at least 20 times over the years and been parked in that carpark himself with his own family once.
At the top end of the car park there’s a sign which looks to be like a route of walks type map. Other ornamental type small log type rails on the other side of the road to the car park do actually suggest its a tourist type spot.
Sorry if this is a duplicate post,but here’s the background to Hicheur.
Adlène Hicheur
Adlène Hicheur
Born 1976
Setif, Algeria
Residence Geneva, Switzerland
Citizenship Algerian, French
Nationality France
Fields Particle Physics
Institutions European Organisa
Nationality France
Fields Particle Physics
Institutions European Organisation for Nuclear Research (CERN)
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory (RAL)
Swiss Federal Institute of Technology
Alma mater Université de Lyon, Université de Savoie
Known for His accusation of terrorism while he was working as physicist at the Large Hadron Collider
Adlène Hicheur (born 1976)[1] is a particle physicist with dual Algerian and French citizenship.[2] After his master of theoretical physics in Lyon, he joined LAPP (Laboratoire d’Annecy le Vieux de Physique des Particules) to work on the BaBar experiment, located at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. His thesis, defended in 2003, was about the production of high energy Eta prime mesons in the decays of B mesons. After that he was a Postdoctorate in England at the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, where he worked on the ATLAS experiment at LHC. He then joined the high energy physics department of École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne (EPFL) and works currently on the LHCb experiment.
Adlène Hicheur was arrested in France on October 8, 2009, after police allegedly intercepted emails between himself and Al-Qaida in Islamic Maghreb, an Algerian based terrorist organisation. Two weeks after his arrest, the Algerian media [3] compared Hicheur to Lotfi Raissi, who was first suspected of terrorism before being released without charges. An International Support Committee was organized by Adlene’s friends and colleagues[4] to support Adlene and to request a fair investigation.
General director of the National Police Frédéric Péchenard stated in November 2009 that Hicheur planned to attack a base of the National Defence in Annecy, which harbours the 27ème bataillon de chasseurs alpins, involved in Afghanistan.[5]
Hicheur’s trial started on March 29, 2012, in Paris.[6] In May 2012 Hicheur was sentenced to “five years in prison for plotting terrorist attacks.”[7] On 15 May Hicheur left prison and decided not to appeal his sentence.[8]
^ Hadron Collider physicist Adlene Hicheur charged with terrorism, The Times, 13 October 2009
^ Transnational threat update, Center for Strategic and International Studies, October 2009
^ Adlène Hicheur: Une seconde affaire Raïssi ?, Le jour d’Algérie, 17 October 2009
^ Comité international de soutien à Adlène Hicheur
^ L’ingénieur du CERN soupçonné de terrorisme ciblait les chasseurs alpins, lemonde.fr, 17 November 2009
Say what now? You are assuming Mollier (the shot cyclist) approached the scene while the shooting was going on, or just after. Why? Maybe he was there when the shooting started!
You have got me there, @ Ferret. That was an assumption on my part. A fairly plausible one, but still just an assumption.
The video of the witness on the BBC says it sounded like “pah pah pah pah pah”. This would fit perfectly with a pair of automatic pistols.
Also correct. I must admit that I didn’t watch that video and merely went by the term “automatic gunfire.” Pah-pah-pah is indeed a perfect onomatopoetic description of rapid single fire.
@ ricki tarr
The Baghdad cousin could perhaps be this guy – Ali Al Hilli?
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ali-al-hilli/29/1a7/226
Ferret, didn’t someone say they saw an earpiece in Martins ear during that interview, so, was he deaf or partially deaf ?
@peter
You are right that the road is straight. However, if he approached going uphill, the BMW would have been hidden from his view by that berm to the left of the BMW.
####
Correct. But he would have seen it at least at the position of where the front of that white truck is noe standing. Likely much earlier than that. The kids said that there wss a lot of noise as well.
I would have tried to run or cycle away as soon as i would have noticed the gunman. Perhaps sylvain was very brave. However, the killer, if he were a pro, would have shot at him much earlier because he would not risk a physical confrontation with a brave guy.
Therefore the theory about an accident when his dead body was in front of the car is totally unlogic. He was no accident bypasser, otherwise his dead body would have been at least 30 meters off that car.
@ katie
Hicheur was arrested two and a half years before his trial. If he was in custody for that entire time then by the time he was sentenced he had already been in custody for half of the sentence term so would be entitled to be released at the half way point.
Two and a half years before a trial is a very long time though I must say.
How much time he served isn’t as relevant as the lenngth of the sentence he was given. Was a 5 year sentence in keeping with sentences for similar “crimes”? That’s what’s relevant.
Also resident of Switzerland & note the location Annecy.
“Hicheur planned to attack a base of the National Defence in Annecy, which harbours the 27ème bataillon de chasseurs alpins, involved in Afghanistan.”
Coincidence again ?
@Katie
I have no idea if RAFman is supposed to be hearing-impaired or not… I did hear mention of something in his ear during the interview but think it was tongue-in-cheek rather than actual observation.
🙂
Thinking about this, if he were hearing-impaired, would he be able to use a mobile phone? Sorry in advance to any hearing-impaired people on this thread if that is a dim question, I certainly don’t mean to be insensitive in any way, just curious.
@ katie
Someone commented that we couldnt see that side of his head/ear so he could have been wearing an earpiece for all we knew.
No earpiece seen, just speculation he could have worn one and we’d be none the wiser.
I would have tried to run or cycle away as soon as i would have noticed the gunman. Perhaps sylvain was very brave. However, the killer, if he were a pro, would have shot at him much earlier because he would not risk a physical confrontation with a brave guy.
I disagree. The killer had his hands full at the time, moving around the car and shooting his victims inside at close range. He would not have heard that cyclist approaching and, as he was looking at the car and his victims, probably only saw him after the cyclist had already stopped. Maybe he didn’t see him at all initially. I suspect that this shout that the elder daughter heard
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/346307/Shout-clue-by-girl-in-French-Alps-murders
might have been Mollier shouting something along the lines of “Hey, what are you doing?” to the shooter.
Conversely, if Mollier was cycling at a stiff pace and minding his own business, not expecting to chance upon a murder, it would have taken him a few seconds to work out what was really happening there. During that time, he would have covered those thirty meters.
Mlle Claire Schutz. age 29 (undated) according to Copains d’avant..
Another online source,e-pro-commerce, however, says the director is Genevieve Schutz. Some photos here of the family….
http://www.pharmaciengiphar.com/minisite/schutz/index.php?mod=equipe
Is that SM’s wife there?
Id say if Mr Mollier took 5 in the back he was already there or the assasins where hiding until he was in a position to take 5 shots in his back!
@ Ferret
I know that there are hearing-impaired commercial pilots, but I don’t think that there are hearing-impaired RAF pilots.
Dopey, that’s not what I posted for, but his location , work & in the same company as AH.
They knew each other.
There’s an army camp in the region with many pro shooter.
might have been Mollier shouting something along the lines of “Hey, what are you doing?” to the shooter
…………………
lol …yes that’s what I’d shout too as I came across a gunman firing a semi automatic gun off at a car
@Katie,
Thanks very much for the info about Adlène Hicheur, much appreciated.
Talking of which, did you know that the Cezus plant where Sylvain Mollier worked in Ugine also has a world-renowned R&D lab, as well as factory for producing Zirconium and Hafnium?
If he worked there, and wasn’t just a production-line factory worker, he may well have been party to some highly sensitive secrets. He may even one of their top scientists… who knows?
CEZUS, DEDICATED TO ZIRCONIUM, KEY COMPONENT OF THE NUCLEAR FUEL
CEZUS, a proud member of AREVA, is a key component of the nuclear fuel cycle. Cezus is fully integrated in the manufacturing of Zirconium for complete mastering of the final product and performance.
[…]
CEZUS has its own R&D center (“CRC”) located in Ugine, France. This center is dedicated to R&D on Zirconium alloys, focusing on process and metallurgy :. It is the cornerstore of innovation and is known worldwide.
http://www.areva.com/EN/operations-942/cezus-specializing-in-zirconium.html
@Peter
I know that there are hearing-impaired commercial pilots, but I don’t think that there are hearing-impaired RAF pilots.
Good point
No blood or very little.
No screams heard at all. They couldnt all be killed simultaneously.
No proof of anyone being shot.
All we have is a car with windows shot at.
The crime scene immediately frozen. Only the head of police or someone of power could stop everyone trying to save the occupants.
Bretts most believable lines ‘like Hollywood’ ‘just like CSI’ the whole scene is a fake. With a few witnesses to confirm/confuse.
The 1 blood spattered stone in the photos of the crime scene why would that be left behind. Had a lot of blood on it.
What blood type is fake blood?
Claire Schutz was posted the other day somewhere, it had her facebook profile and a link to Molliers (under a slighly different name like Mollier-…..
Funny enough her profile has dissapeared?
@Strawberry
Astutely observed, as ever.
🙂
Yes Ferret that was the first thing I found at the start of this mystery all on my own blog.
For me the only piece left in this puzzle is the question …was Mollier a muslim which Hicheur must be ? We have no photos to go on.
The 1 blood spattered stone in the photos of the crime scene why would that be left behind. Had a lot of blood on it.
Yes, it beggars belief that a forensic team would have left that behind. Just as it beggars belief that they would open the crime scene to journalists for a while before sealing it off again.
http://www.areva.com/EN/operations-917/cezus-ugine-activities-melting-and-forging.html
Regarding hafnium and cezus:
Cezus in Ugine is melting and packaging the hafnium coming from grenoble.
Actually if you need to shop hafnium in europe you would have to go to Ugine because that is the place where you might get it.
Of course that hafnium is not usable in the weapon industry unless you have the knowledge of how to create the necessary hafnium isotope. Hicheur had this knowledge, mollier was in the production line and sah was the laser technician to practically create that isotope?
Peter, how long has Martin been an EX-rafman , was he invalided out ?
Did the Camp sites have Wi-FI access?
@Ricki
Thanks,I had meanwhile found it and added a bit more. He could have had a double life unknown to his wife/partner. Someone in the wrong place at the wrong time would I reckon not have had such a news and publicity clampdown.
Good Nature(2009) piece on Hichere from his wiki page
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/091013/full/news.2009.999.html
The Rutherford link only “emerged” a few days previously.
@Peter
The crime scene was opened to journos for a purpose, blood, glass and all, to get the official narrative over to the masses.
@Bluebird
Of course that hafnium is not usable in the weapon industry unless you have the knowledge of how to create the necessary hafnium isotope. Hicheur had this knowledge, mollier was in the production line and sah was the laser technician to practically create that isotope?
My thinking exactly. Except to add that perhaps Mollier wasn’t just “in the production line” and may have been highly skilled in some way too.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110207093142/http://bis.gov.uk/~/media/BISPartners/ukspaceagency/Images/homepage/working-on-nx-sstl-210.ashx
Is this Al-Hilli?