My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
@Anders
Just to state for the record, I am not CANADAman, but just as you surmised, simply an ‘interested observer’. I have only posted to further the debate, offer info or oppose some (rather silly) opinions. I have no agenda. No bluff. No chips. No tent pegs 🙂
Notice we all use one name….
and I am in Virginia !
..and I can see Dulles from here.
I never knew that Emirates had a flight from DXB direct.
The wonders of modern fuel.
Anyways…carry on Flanders, since you mentioned my name in vain !
Does that mean you don’t buy into the bomb theory either Anders?
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Don’t know where you got than one Dopey. I do, as it ‘appens! 😉
Hence the trolls put in force since GuyF put it all together! 🙂
@hades
Just to state for the record, I am not CANADAman, but just as you surmised, simply an ‘interested observer’. I have only posted to further the debate, offer info or oppose some (rather silly) opinions. I have no agenda. No bluff. No chips. No tent pegs
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Ok this is the tell.
CANADAman has a very distinct writing style and is very clever. So are you, you DID have the same style, UNTILL I started sniffing around your droppings. Then, being very clever, you changed your style, but not enough to fool KEEN MINDS(tm) 🙂
Ok there is another tell, in the statement above, which dovetails with all the GLP postings tells. 🙂
Mum’s the word! 😉
Dopey…
T’was the fronts (a front) the witness had previously said.
And Flanders…. you missed the EK reference ?
Why ?
Are you a “spook wish I was” ?
The road does actually end for cars at that carpark, so they would have to stop and turn there regardless.
From what I have gathered, the road officially ends there for everybody but the forestry service and residents. Physically, it is quite possible to drive further and the road barrier was open on the day. Thus, they could have driven further and subsequently turned around (although I must admit that I don’t see why they would have done that), or they could have turned off this road further down the road and only driven up to that car park on their return journey.
Unless they were having a picknick there, I find it quite baffling why this family would have chosen to spend an hour sitting in their car in a secluded car park. Even if they were having a picknick, wouldn’t the kids have wanted to get out and play? Wouldn’t any of the adults have wanted to stretch their legs a bit? And even if Mr al-Hilli was planning a top-secret meet in that car park, surely it would have been better to act natural and allow his family to behave like real holidaymakers?
The whole idea that the al-Hilli family drove up to that car park, just sat inside their car and passively waited an hour or so for something or somebody to show up sounds totally off to me. Hence, the question that I am asking myself is: What happened in between the time they were seen drinving up the road and the time they were murdered?
@Anders
So I shared the opinion of someone else; that it might be worth looking into the BAE/EADS vs Boeing side. Doesn’t mean we’re one in the same. I didn’t exactly push the matter. Sure I have my ideas on whodunnit, but that changes minute by minute. I’ve at no point tried to derail the thread. The info I’ve given has been accurate and without prejudice. I don’t see what your problem is?
Peter…
If you watch this…you’ll get it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2BTtiv6xJk
Its like a “privado” sign…but if you live there.
The first bit looks down on the D’Ire Valley. Combre D’Ire.
@ pecker
The use of a silencer also explains why Mr Mollier appeared on the scene. If he had heard the sound of sustained gunfire, he would hardly have stopped to investigate, would he? He would have turned around and sped off before even reaching the murder scene. As it was, he probably failed to understand what was going on there until it was too late.
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Ummm noooo, it explains that the unsilenced SHOOTERS
PLURAL
Only began when Sylvain was in the kill zone.
@pecker
@Peter
Your “silencer” theory ignores the inconvenient fact that eyewitnesses heard approx 30 seconds of automatic gunfire, as widely reported in the media on Sept 7.
For example:
Witnesses reported hearing just 30 seconds of gunfire
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9527508/France-shooting-Police-probing-possible-family-row.html
Many more links exist to similar reports in other papers.
By the way, has the prosecutor confirmed officially that it was a Luger? Or this just another rumour in the mill?
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An inconvenient truth, eh??? 🙂
So I shared the opinion of someone else; that it might be worth looking into the BAE/EADS vs Boeing side. Doesn’t mean we’re one in the same. I didn’t exactly push the matter. Sure I have my ideas on whodunnit, but that changes minute by minute. I’ve at no point tried to derail the thread. The info I’ve given has been accurate and without prejudice. I don’t see what your problem is?
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I have no problem with you at all. I am just observing. 😉
Carry on.
Hi Peter
They could have done yep. I don’t think they will have though. Why? In a RWD car with low profile tyres you don’t go looking for trouble, ground surface wise.
In a 4×4 (or even FWD ie James brown Volvo) I may be tempted to continue up a road marked dangerous to vehicles. I wouldn’t with Saad’s car though, coz I’d be too worried about getting stuck.
Unless he knew that road ahead of course, and knew it was fine to continue for a while.
@Anders
With regards to peter, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Obviously two or more shooters. Obviously using 7.65mm Browning (KNOWN AS .32 ACP) eg BERETTA CHEETAH or other numerous modern handguns. I’m just someone who knows a little about a lot. Not CANADAman. Never even been to Canada.
Haden
“So I shared the opinion of someone else”
WRONG !
Flanders knows see.
D notice (wrong). LSGG flight (wrong). Laser (erm…. he’s right there)
So two wrongs DO infact make a right.
With regards to peter, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Obviously two or more shooters. Obviously using 7.65mm Browning (KNOWN AS .32 ACP) eg BERETTA CHEETAH or other numerous modern handguns. I’m just someone who knows a little about a lot. Not CANADAman. Never even been to Canada.
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Then we are similar, and we agree,
I like to shoot handguns, and AKs etc, and I pretty much know my stuff.
@pecker is a fraud.
I have PROOF but the mods are asleep.
Peter, the more I look at the car…I have it enlarged on my screen, the more it looks the worse for wear.
I can see no blood splatters through the smashed window,just one small dark patch…as already been said, but see the boot marks/scratches [?] on the bonnet which I’ve mentioned before, could someone have dropped down onto the bonnet I wonder, take a really close look at it.
What is the mark above the front left wheel too which lines up with bonnet marks ?
If one tyre was shot at, the car would spin /swerve/ if travelling at speed …wouldn’t ?
Sorry if this seems mundane
new types of compact weapons being made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd6ix6swkXs
Hafnium + X-Rays = Electric Generator?
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/07/hafnium-x-rays/
Dopey…
They are NOT “low profile tyres” by any stretch of the imagination.
They are “standard” 5 Series “SE” type tyres on that vehicle.
Infact on a 5 you can have the option of a “booster” seat. (Don’t know if he had that….then again I don’t know if he order it new)
But that may explain also why only one child seat.
I have to get back to Flanders now…he’s had a whisky..and things might get good !
PS…don’t believe me…check it out.
@ katie
I’m sure others with more knowledge can confirm, but I read elsewhere that its very difficult to shoot out a tyre.
If I fancied a covert trip to the middle east from that part of France wouldn’t a ship from Marseille to say Tunis be a good option ?
@pecker
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/sailor-boy/jacktar/16312758/the-type-of-gun-used-in-the-al-hilli-killing-maybe/
Sources close to the investigation have disclosed that Saad al-Hilli, a British engineer, his wife, mother in law and a French cyclist, were shot with a Luger P08, a highly-distnctive weapon which was standard issue to the Swiss Army.
AFAIK, that is the closest to official confirmation that has come out yet. Note that this quote implies that a Swiss Army “Pistole 00″ in calibre 7.65 x 21 Parabellum was used – that’s the calibre that the Swiss Army used – not the far more common Luger in 9 x 19 Para. Investigators have said from the start that it was 7.65 calibre, so that would fit.
Some people have earlier posted links suggesting that this gun was as common as sand and spare magazines for it easily available. Whilst that is true for the nine-millimetre version, it certainly isn’t for the 7.65 x 21 Swiss Army pistol. Getting hold of spare magazines for one of those would require a lot of time, money and effort.
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Still promoting the lone gunman crapola in the article he wrote for the Torygraph! 🙂
Don’t deny it pecker, you are a ballistics journalist, as you said in your first fe posts, trying to establish some wiki ballistics bona fides! 😉
Lol! 🙂
Flanders !
“I like to shoot handguns, and AKs etc, and I pretty much know my stuff”
So we have….
1. A V8 Merc
2. Motorbikes
3. Moutain bikes
4. A well travelled contractor (Where was it France and the M.E)
5. Raced Caterhams
6.. Worked once for an airline (bt couldn’t say which one.
7. A shooter of AK’s and hand guns.
Or are you full of B.S. and ppl have decide just to play with you ????
All thise Flanders facts…and more are available here on this thread…and on DVD coming out at Christmas !
@ james
Arent they? They look like it to me, but then I’m not a tyre guru and can only go by the fact they look the same as mine and others elsewhere said they were.
Regardless, I still wouldnt willingly attempt dodgy terrain in a RWD.
@ watcher
If I fancied a covert trip to the middle east from that part of France wouldn’t a ship from Marseille to say Tunis be a good option ?
………………..
With the whole family?
It doesnt look that “dodgy”. Tarmac to a Carpark !
PD drove up to !
But they arent “LP’s” mucker.
They look like (and are) the standard tyre on a 5 series touring.
IF you had LP’s on…you’d worry about every bump ! Ya don’t want to “ding” an alloy.
@Dopey, was thinking more getaway/exit policy for the killer(s)
But I do think big bags and passports sounds like a last meeting before ‘doing a flit’ somewhere
And as for mud on the tyres.
Flanders laughed (as he does) at the topography of the place.
…although he did “cut and paste the wrong spelling of the word ! But hey)
Lets look at that.
Actually….lets not. Lets look at “it’s a forest” !
Trees ground because they have water !!!!
So yes, underneath there is water (or muddy ground) especially in “the woods” !
@ james
I’m not on about the drive up to the car park. I’m on about the drive PAST the car park….which Peter mentioned.
I can see no blood splatters through the smashed window,just one small dark patch…as already been said, but see the boot marks/scratches [?] on the bonnet which I’ve mentioned before, could someone have dropped down onto the bonnet I wonder, take a really close look at it.
Why would there have to be blood spatters on the windows? One would only see blood spatter if the victims’ heads were exactly aligned with the windows through which the bullets exited. However, the victims must have known what was coming and hunkered down, trying to take cover as best they could. Thus, except for Mr al-Hilli (who, as the driver, would have been the priority target), I would expect to see very little blood on either the headrests or on the side windows.
I have commented on that mark on the bonnet before. To my mind, that looks like smudged bloody palm print, caused by the shooter leaning on the bonnet, angling his master hand upwards and shooting the driver straight in the chest or face. Given the information posted earlier, that the al-Hilli’s car might have been in some sort of collision, the shooter *might* have been bleeding because of that collision, not because he cut himself whilst sticking his arm through the side windows.
You cant drive past. There is a barrier.
You can if you have a chalet there (did you see my Pointe De Velan video) ?