My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
Right… Now that we have uncovered a possible Hafnium bomb scenario, and I’ve had a chance to post some juicy details on the finances of Brett Martin’s limited company…
I’d like to return to the question of the lack of blood stains in car, in the car park, and the general lack of brains splattered all over the inside of the car (yeuch, sorry).
Peter has said previously (15 Sept 10:19 am) that maybe this is just because shot people don’t bleed much.
Ferret: 5. Re no blood splatters, could this be explained by low-power cartridges in 7.65mm as per the Beretta’s used by Flight Marshalls?
Peter: IMHO, more likely explanation is that dead people just don’t bleed that much.
When I first read this, I was LMAO but now I’ve changed my mind. Peter, you are quite right: dead people don’t bleed. But surely dying people will bleed though… like A LOT. And brains will be blown out by close-range shots to the head, large exit wounds etc etc.
So… the simplest explanation is that they didn’t die in the car. They were shot somewhere else. Then put back in the car and the windows were shot out.
Hey… wait a minute… didn’t someone already post this theory?!?
@Peter
Spooky timing! Crossed posts about EXACTLY the same subject…
You’re going to carry three dead people..and herd to live ones ?
I don’t get that.
Where was the car ?
@James
You’ve got me there.
Mind you, it was a bit strange to notice that Peter’s reasoning seems to have changed. A few days ago dead people didn’t bleed that much, now they’re not lined up with the windows.
James?
The incident at Fessenheim happened before the shootings. http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Steam_injures_two_at_Fessenheim_0509122.html
Oddly !
The “head” or rather brain, is the first place blood flow (and is oxygenated. It smells sweet to, that is just a side issue).
If they were shot…and the blood (as it is “under pressure”) flys backwards….were is the blood on the back window ?)
Fessenheim time reported at 2:16pm http://enenews.com/ap-steam-blast-at-french-nuclear-plant-kyodo-2-employees-burned-6-others-reportedly-felt-ill/comment-page-1
Feret…
Seriously…. I still haven’t a damn clue.
My thing is the lasers, the Kelly sit rep previously, the build up in the gulf….and maybe that Mollier was going to whistle blow.
That’s as far as any evidence I can find…and even that is “sketchy”.
Mollier had “30” at his Sunday evening funeral.
That’s another damn thing. That’s odd, isn’t it ?
Peter I didn’t mean on the windows & mean on the upholstery. Didn’t they women have shots to their bodies as well as the head ?
The marks on the bonnet are equal to astride = two.not one,could some one have been standing on the bonnet taking off part of that roof rack ?
Also,is that white spot a bullet mark in the roof ?
@James
That’s my point exactly. Anyone remember the “brain detail” scene from Pulp Fiction???
No idea how you manage two live children with the 3 (or 4) dead adults, though.
It’s spooky and creepy – but I can’t think of anything else to explain it. So… I’m rolling it around to see if anything sensible comes up.
Plenty of people have mentioned the lack of bloodstains on the ground where Mollier and the Zainab were supposedly shot, and that PD saw no blood or injury on Zainab.
The idea that they were shot somewhere else would explain this.
“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.”
However if the women are Shia and wearing a turqa? e.g. headscarf + robes would there be any blood etc or would it be contained by the headscarf….
*I don’t remember seeing any press reports of this type of dress so may well have been enthusiastic foruming ?
Ferret…
The only thing I know about that is (and it is PURE hearsay)
I knew a family friend in the UK police force (so many years)..He ended up in a very strange job (can’t say…as I really don’t want to give to much away now…remember your question some time back…and YES is the answer now !)
…his job was dealing with crime. He once said (and I recall it as it was so damn awful) they cleared a scene of a shooting.
The blood from the head was A. all over. And B. Smelt “sweet”.
And that was in a house (room).
Here it is in a car. I could be TOTALLY wrong.
It could have just “gone on them” …but three heads ! In a car !
Surely that would be a mess ?
Ferret, this is reminiscent of Kelly & the lack of blood,killed elsewhere & then dumped in forest !
@Ferret – there would probably be no exit wounds from 7.65mm ammo. They are low power and wouldn’t have enough punch to enter and exit a skull. All the victims were killed very quickly, so their hearts would have stopped pumping blood out of their wounds.
A point that was reported earlier, was that a rear wheel was flat. Was this the rear wheel that we all thought was buried in the mud as a result of spinning? If so, I think we need to revisit the theory that the car was in gear with wheels spinning. It could have been in neutral with no wheels spinning. And was the wheel shot out from a distance to immobilise it?
Oh, btw Anders – you know fuck all about guns. All of the info and ideas you got about guns was stolen from other people, and you didn’t know that the Beretta 70 series takes .22 ammo – not .32.
Mind you, it was a bit strange to notice that Peter’s reasoning seems to have changed. A few days ago dead people didn’t bleed that much, now they’re not lined up with the windows.
I am here to learn, to try to get to the bottom of this riddle, and to share the few ideas and insights that I may or may not have along the way. If my reasoning changes along the way, that just means that my time spent here has not been wasted.
@ Ferret
Bleeding and blood spatter are two separate issues. Dead bodies don’t bleed much, because their hearts have stopped pumping. Simple. Conversely, you would see quite a lot of blood spatter even if you shot a dead body in the head, because the human head contains an awful lot of blood and this blood remains there even after death. However, you would expect that blood spatter to follow the trajectory of the bullet (a little spray going into the direction of where the bullet came from, but the bulk of it exiting through the exit wound, along with the bullet.)
Ferret…
“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”
Mr Holmes, you are correcticus.
But what is left ?
The blood ?
The roof rack ?
The car position and motion ?
The jobs of the two main deceased ?
Title: Chemical accident sparks alert at French nuclear plant
Source: Reuters
Date: Sep 5, 2012 11:00am EDT
Watcher,I think you mean a Burka,…the dress, but the scarf is called a hijab.
I’ve wondered if that is why we’ve seen no photo’s, not wanting to inflame the ‘religion of peace’.
No I didn’t mean Burka, someone was using terminology Turqa or similar, so just paraphrasing someone else that may have been incorrect
Oh OK, well I hope he’s read this . 😉
@Ferret – there would probably be no exit wounds from 7.65mm ammo. They are low power and wouldn’t have enough punch to enter and exit a skull. All the victims were killed very quickly, so their hearts would have stopped pumping blood out of their wounds.
@ Bajer
I am sorry to say this, but you are totally off on that one. Even regular 7.65 calibre bullets are more than powerful enough to penetrate a human head. The calibre that is in issue here, 7,65 × 21 mm Luger, is more than twice as powerful, almost on a par with 9 x 19 Parabellum.
And..
If it is a Luger…and no one knows (and if they say, who’s to know !)
But he’s not in a hurry, lets face it.
He has 9 in the first “go”.
Drops the mag, and reloads…and puts that mag away somewhere.
Then he fires another 8.
Then drops the mag…and reloads mag three.
Unless he manual refills the mag each time !!!
And that’s crazy.
Therefore I am unsure that the gun is a Luger at all.
But a “24” plus mag, with one in the spout…and may have had a jam.
@pecker
8 shots under 1 second
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DpCellB_UQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player
@pecker
Dave Sevigny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtRh-uAmgpw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
And
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=Ls4Uq1aCiTA&NR=1
The the fastest reloader in the west !
But through a window ! With a Luger !!!!
“It was James, in the pantry, with the luger….and he was blindfolded with his own undercrackers whilst holding a candlestick Mlud” !!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204459/French-Alps-massacre-First-pictures-Zainab-Zeena-al-Hilli-survived-brutal-attack.html?openGraphAuthor=%2Fhome%2Fsearch.html%3Fs%3D%26authornamef%3DPeter%2BAllen#ixzz26j5R5ajy
why is there a tandem on the roof of the car or do I need glasses?
@Peter – I did not say that the bullet couldn’t penetrate the skull, I said that it probably wouldn’t be powerful enough to enter and exit the skull (exit wound). It has not been established that the weapon was a Luger. Some people claimed it was a Skorpion (but I think that the newspapers in question just arrived at that conclusion based on reports that a Baltic looking man was seen at the campsite. A more reliable source has reported that the weapon was possibly a CZ50. And if it was a Beretta, it really would be unlikely that there would be exit wounds. I reckon that the fact that all the victims got two shots to the head is testament to the fact that the killer was using a low power weapon, and knew that two to the head was required to guarantee the kill.
John O’Connor, ex Scotland Yard commander also stated that that calibre would be unlikely to penetrate the windscreen.
America is crackers !
Peter’s teletubbies backstory is that he is a German journalist specialising in ballistics and counterterrorism!
Right!
He has obviously never seen an expert fire a gun rapidly!
What a to*I am surprised so many are still talking to him after all the pastings I’ve given his crap since the toadstool emerged overnight!
Check out this 37 seconds video, the man shoots 8 rounds In under one second, Dave Sevigny switching magazines in milliseconds…
Two shooters…
Not the same trip but is Iqbal a cyclist with her hubby?