My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Today’s development of the bomb squad descending on the al-Hilli house does not in itself worry me enormously. You may recall the massive terror scare that was ramped up when some Muslim students in Manchester were found to own a bag of sugar.
In fact we have the opposite phenomenon today, with the spook-fed “security correspondents” on TV lining up to tell us it is probably just everyday household stuff. This deviation from the standard Islamophobic “Muslims = bombs” narrative is so startling it makes me wonder why the “move along, nothing to see here” line is being taken so quickly.
My own security services sources insist that al-Hilli was not a person of current interest to the UK intelligence agencies and was not involved in anything clandestine. I have no reason to disbelieve them. On the other hand, the limited and confusing information in the media is almost entirely from official sources. I find it very strange indeed how little attention has been paid to the murdered French cyclist, and how easily it is presumed he was just a passerby. Surely it is as likely he was the intended victim and the al-Hillis the accidental witnesses?
Please do read the comments on my first entry on the subject to see the debate unfettered by the censorship in the mainstream media. This is perhaps my favourite comment:
From Janesmith101
All comments regarding Sylvain, Al-Hilli and a possible nuclear link are being removed from sites I’ve posted on in The Guardian, Independent and Huffpo UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/09/alps-killer-motive-baffles-police
Here was my comment, I added as a point of fact it was completely speculative and an unproven theory in a later comment, also removed.
Sylvain Mollier, the ‘passing’ cyclist, was in fact a nuclear metallurgist who worked for a french nuclear company called Cezus (a subsidiary of Areva). Cezus fabricates and processes zirconium into metal and nuclear grade zircoaloy for nuclear fuel assemblies – it also has other applications in aerospace such as components and ceramics for missiles and satellites. Mr Al-Hilli was also a skilled aerospace engineer, on what looks to be his first camping holiday.
What is the probability that two highly skilled engineers managed be at the same remote place, at the same time, yet still managed to end up dead as a result of what looks to be a military style assasination?
As someone else pointed out in The Independent comments, the deceased were found by a ‘retired’ RAF officer who, we assume, will recieve perpetual anonymity as a witness. If the police are looking for a motive, try an intercepted rendevous by a security service fixated on denying a hostile power illicit nuclear technology.
http://wrmea.org/component/content/article/162-1995-june/7823-israel-bombs-iraqs-osirak-nuclear-research-facility.html
The Huffington Post UK reports that this wasn’t the family’s first trip to the camp site. An earlier report had asked other camp site visitors whether they had seen the family before and they had replied they hadn’t. If this isn’t wasn’t the first visit by Al-Hilli, it might slightly increase the odds that he knew or had met Mollier before, this being the last in a series of rendevous of a transactional nature. Mollier lived and worked locally.
Again, I’m not sure of the truth of these reports, there is some very sloppy journalism, as there is always seems to be. I’ve read for example Mollier’s company Cevus descirbed as a steel firm something which it is patently not, but perhaps it may have been a detail lost in translation.
An interesting comment summing up some of the strange coincidences, at least, surrounding these murders. My other favourite comment calls me a “macchiavellian shill”.
I have only one thought of my own I want to add at the minute. Al-Hilli was a Shia muslim and had been on pilgrimage to Qoms in Iran. What if it is indeed true that he was in possession of no especial nuclear or defence secrets to pass on to the Iranians, but the Israelis thought that he was? The Israeli programme of assassination of scientists involved in Iran’s nuclear programme is a definite fact. It makes as much sense as anything else at the moment, as a possibility.
I am not saying that is what happened. But the directions in which the mainstream media is being so strenuously pointed by official sources, like the massacre of an entire family over an inheritance, are certainly no more inherently probable. Certainly as we are now told all the shots were from one gun, for the assassin to get each victim in the head with none of them being able to escape, indicates real proficiency with the weapon and a very high level of training.
PS. I’m not “fishing” – I just ask about Mollier because to me he doesn’t fit into the puzzle if the answer is SSTL.
@ ferret
Re SSTL and where Molliere fits in – that I’m struggling with.
@Dopey
… hmmm… ok… thanks for that. I suppose it’s always worth keeping the options open…
My money is still on the Hafnium thing, particularly as that’s what’s under the radar at the moment, and claimed by some to be “pseudoscience” and “against the laws of physics”!!
Ye cannae break the laws of physics, laws of physics, laws of physics, ye cannae break the laws of physics, laws of physics, CAPTAIN
@dopey
I dont take that. A terrorist who is such dangerous that he could blow up a city like london (investigators said so) wont be released simply because he was a nice guy in jail.
Usually that is different: “buddy, work for us and we are going to protect you and we shall give you a new identity”
Of course a whistleblower is released from jail quickly because he would not be save in a jail. He is telling names and backgrounds and he gets a new name a, a new face and a new identity in return. That is how it usually works.
Has anybody seen met, or interviewed hicheur after him being released in may? Does he still exist as adlene hicheur? I bet no!
@Bluebird
Perhaps… Or maybe you are reading too much into it?
Remember, he was supposed to have been guilty of merely saying “well, if you’re so bloody interested in attacking something, why don’t you attack the barracks down the road from me, their security is pants” – or words to that effect.
He was *NOT*, so far as I am aware, found guilty of planning, nor having the capability of the kind of thing you are suggesting.
In fact, AFAIK he reportedly *turned down* the invitations to join in a terrorist conspiracy.
So maybe 2.5 years served out of 5 years is “reasonable” (if indeed it was even reasonable to jail him in the first place).
There is a lot of anti-muslim paranoia/conspiracy theories in the mainstream at the moment. Most of them are just racist, ignorant bollocks.
Riki I see nothing odd about the passports being in the car, where else could he keep them safely,not on a campsite ?
Likewise the bags, if there were something of value, say a computer, in them,generally it would be safer to keep such items with you.
When you think about the dearth of info being given to the public, isn’t it odd that we were told about the passports ?
@ bluebird
Do some research on UK sentencing and the laws in respect to early release and parole.
In respect to his early release you are wrong.
He MAY have done a backdoor deal in respect to the sentence he’d get. Its feasable. Deals aren’t done in respect to early release. It could be that the sentence was given to take into effect the time he’d spent on remand (2.5 yrs) so he did a token couple of months inside whilst sentenced to appease everybody, rather than walking from court because he’d already been detained till the half way point in the sentence he was given, but in respect to the early release he was released no differently to anyone else with his sentence and who’d spent that amount of time on remand before his trial.
2.5 years remanded before trial IS unusual, very…but being detained under UK terror laws I believe gives them far more leeway in respect to detaining someone without trial.
Does Hircheur still ive in Annecy? was Al-Hilli waiting for him or was Mollier going to take him to a meet?
@dopey
I immediately stay corrected as soon as i would read an interview with a current picture and a hint about where he lives, about a.hicheur.
If a journalist would find him and interview him (no fake security service report!) then i stay corrected.
As long as the released hicheur isnt interviewed and as long as we dont hear what his new job should be, as long i am convinced that he is now living with a new identity and workung with a new face.
@dopey
You always have to release whistleblowers immediately. In jail they would not survive any longer than a month. Just my 2 cents.
I’ve just checked his sentence duration – in actual fact he received a 4 year sentence, not a 5 year one. He got 4 years, plus a 1 year suspended (9non custodial) sentence.
So he didnt even get out at the half way point but served 2.5 years of a 4 year custodial sentence.
@ bluebird
Rule 43, or kept in “the block” (solitary confinement)
You’re reading too much into where there isnt anything to read in to in this respect.
@Bluebird
I dont take that. A terrorist who is such dangerous that he could blow up a city like london (investigators said so) wont be released simply because he was a nice guy in jail.
So… you still stand by this? Or retract? No evidence of this, remember…
@Katie
Agreed – in fact it’s the law you must carry your ID with you in most countries in Europe. The UK is a bit of an exception in that regard.
I’m not sure if it’s strange or not about being told about the passports… but it is strangely remeniscent of 9/11, when an entire building was blown to dust (half a telephone was the largest piece left, barring the steel girders) but the so-called terrorist’s passport was supposed to have survived completely unscathed.
What was that last night about “irony”?
It’s worse that that he’s dead Jim, dead Jim, dead Jim, it’s worse that that he’s dead Jim, dead Jim, DEAD
@Bluebird
Your logic is self-referential.
“He must have been a whistleblower to have been released so soon.”
“You have to release whistleblowers immediately or they would not last a minute in jail.”
“There is a lot of anti-muslim paranoia/conspiracy theories in the mainstream at the moment. Most of them are just racist, ignorant bollocks.”
Ferret, if it were proven that Mollier had Algerian roots, that could well be the missing piece of the puzzle, he could be the link between Hicheur & AH they were conspiring to plot an attack & the assassin stopped it in it’s tracks.
Hicheur would have been watched to find out who his contacts were.
As for passing messages, would plod understand scientific lingo which the suspects would all understand.
Let the man out early, monitor him closely & he will lead you to his contacts.
@Katie I like your thinking if Mollier was the Courier this is the way the security services would track them just like they apparently did with Bin Laden (lets not gewt into that haha)
@ ferret
@Bluebird
Your logic is self-referential.
“He must have been a whistleblower to have been released so soon.”
“You have to release whistleblowers immediately or they would not last a minute in jail.”
…………………………
Yep. He DID last a minute in jail. In fact he lasted two and a half years in jail.
Think of the date too Ricki….five days before 9/11 & the biggest uprising of angry muslims in years,which was clearly co-ordinated , that film was a useful tool & an excuse to kill the US Ambassador + others.
@ferret
Lol! I did not say a minute but i said a month!
However he was released only 6 days after his trial. That is pretty quick in my opinion even so when he was waiting for more than 2 years for his trial.
His quick release stinks fishy to me.
Why gad nobidy si gar interviewd hicheur after he wss released in may? Perhaps he could tell press an interesting story about his life. Perhaos they could ask him what he zhinks about tha SAH case?
It would be interesting to speak to him. He is a free man. Or cant they find him ? Why?
Once again. This is just my personal opinion taken by exprrience and logic. I certainly respect sny other opinions, too. We are no investigators, thanks god. However, prrhaps some of us have some idess or find some backgrounds that mihjt help them. Then it was worth every minute searching the web for old links and perhaps some evidence.
Shit. I hate swype on my mobile phone when i forget to change the language to english.
My weird sentence above should read:
Why had nobody tried to interview hicheur since he was released from jail?
Sorry for the stupid spelling above. It was my mobilephone’ keyboard …
Just a minor detail, but I now remember why I had forgotten about that article mentioning condition of the car including the flat rear tyre. In another article (which I cannot find a link to, though), witnesses from the al-Hillis’camping site were quoted as saying that he had been having trouble with one of the tyres on his car and had kept on inflating it.
If the BWM really had a slow puncture, the tyre would have gone flat by the time this aerial photo of the BMW was taken. Thus, there would not be anything remarkable about it. (And the damage to the lower bodywork could have been sustained months or even years before.)
I thought it was a code Bluebird. 🙂
I do miss an editing facility on this site.
Peter RE: the troublesome tyre.
I hadn’t forgotten that either, but thought it odd when hearing the interviewed postman saying that AH did repairs on BMW’s, so odd that he shot [ sorry 🙂 ] off to France without getting the wheel changed , especially in view of him towing a caravan…..
Where were the 2 tandems stowed, inside the van, because no ferry would take that height would it ?
Since the murders an awful lot has come out about SAH which leads to an amazing number of possible motives and murderers. The inheritance row and mad brother in law threads look like rank outsiders to me.
All the weird stuff at the scene such as:
– 8 hour lockdown to wait for forensics from Paris to arrive.’
– approx 20 UK diplomats / intelligence officers there within hours.
– Sir Peter Ricketts (UK ambassador to France) on scene and giving press interviews.
– opening up of scene to press so soon.
– convoy of mysterious cyclists and hikers who ‘stumbled upon scene.’
– chopping and changing by investigators over weapon, number of shots etc.
Would indicate that SAH was not just any old ex-Iraqi living in the UK, who happened to be watched during the last Iraq war, but rather someone who was current to UK SIS. I feel he may have been a former UK asset who had or was being turned.
I don’t think we are going to get much more on Al-Hilli as everything else will be too classified for the public to be ‘trusted’ with.
So for me the missing piece is how Sylvain Mollier fits in. In marked contrast to SAH absolutely zilch has emerged and the www throws up very little. Vague press mentions of cycling and rugby but not supported by any club websites or competition results. No record of him in social media. His partner shows up with photos on chemist website, social media and ski clubs but with no links to him. No details on what he did for his employer. Let’s see if details start to emerge as the media look for a new angle to explore.
Incidentally, and sorry if you guys discussed this some time ago, I was looking at the aerial shot of the whole murder scene where you see the tyre mark arc. Assuming, SAH was originally parked front in and was desperately trying to turn around to escape he would have stopped and gone into forward gear to get on the road before reversing so far and hitting the bank. So appears to me that he was fatally hit while reversing and hence the car continued in reverse on the same ark until it got wedged on the bank.
@Katie
Ferret, if it were proven that Mollier had Algerian roots, that could well be the missing piece of the puzzle, he could be the link between Hicheur & AH they were conspiring to plot an attack & the assassin stopped it in it’s tracks.
Ooooer. Muslims + bomb = the good guys blow them all away.
Not in a million.
Why not just arrest them like Hicheur?
@Mark
Where have you been?
Mollier worked at the nuke factory in Ugine, where there is a world class lab.
Access to world class secrets?
Hafnium?
Zirconim?
Many possiblities for Mollier…
Read back on this thread.
Not quite sure about this hafnium thing, is it radioactive..
But imagine if Mollier had something hidden on his bike, turns up at car park and dismounts. Al-hilli also has a bike on his rack. They aim to swap the bikes over.
Killer shoots Mollier and takes the bike which contains the material.
Of course this means that if the french guy had the ‘implanted’ bike then the killer would have taken this, and would have had to replace it with al-hillis bike that was on his roof rack as the frenchmans bike was found at the scene….were they the same type of bike? Did al-hilli travel down through France with a bike on the rack?
Also what kind of bike was Mollier and RAF man riding? Were they road racing bikes and is the road beyond the STOP sign suitable for that kind of bike? Or would they have needed a mountain bike to continue? If they were racing bikes and the road beyond was a pot holed country lane I would find it hard to imagine why they were both cycling up there in the first place.
@Bluebird
Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
🙂
Your logic reminded me of the “Not the 9 o’clock news” sketch where the police chief is tearing a strip off his subordinate…
Chief: Why do you keep arresting this man, sergeant?
Sarge: Because he’s a jailbird, sir – he’s in the cells right now!
Chief: YOU arrested him…
Sarge: Thank you sah!
😀
Re the month/minute thing, as English is not your first language, probably worth explaining that “won’t last a minute” is a colloquial phrase, meaning “won’t last a short amount of time” – not an actual minute. You will also hear “he won’t last a second” etc etc.)
Still circular logic, IMO.