Drone Murder 222

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I had a half-formed post in mind to work on this morning, but then I read Glenn Greewald’s latest and concluded that if you are going to devote ten minutes of your day, nothing I could write would be as profitable as your reading him.

I would only add the obvious fact that Blair had already done to New Labour precisely what Obama has done to the Democrats; and that western “democracy” has lost its meaning because the institutionally entrenched parties offer no actual policy choice to voters, but are all neo-conservative.

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222 thoughts on “Drone Murder”

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  • Herbie

    Looking at various court cases and politicians’ uttterances (or refusals to utter, for that matter)over the last few months, I get the impression that the masks and gloves are really coming off. What passes as duly constitued authority is basically putting two fingers up at the citizenry.
    Who agrees?

  • John Goss

    @ 4.24 pm. Wonderful that Mark Golding. Could anybody portray the CIA other than negatively unless it is the CIA itself – and that’s disinformation.

    The plea-bargain aspect of the US legal system is its biggest shortcoming. Admit you’re guilty whether you are or not and you get a lighter sentence. Do not agree to a plea bargain and you’re locked away forever. That is why Theresa May has sent 5 UK Muslims who have never been charged in this country to the United States: so they can plea bargain their way into a guilty verdict, which could not happen over here. Doesn’t it disgust you?

  • BBC Man

    re the Savile case : BBC’s Helen Boaden steadfastly refuses to comment or give any statement about her role. Helen Boaden reportedly gets £354.000 a year (about 14 times average/median UK earnings)and, as she is paid by public funds, is a public servant. WTF ???????

  • Dreoilin

    “I am concerned about Clark. What can we do to get him back?”

    Somehow I don’t think he wants to come back – as a moderator. I hope he comes back as a commenter, if/when he feels so inclined.

    Meanwhile, I’d be concerned about the workload on Jon. The number of comments here seems to have increased enormously (?) – even leaving aside the */** and al Hilli threads. And there are still adjustments to the code being requested (including by me on occasion.)

    I think there’s an assumption, by some, that a mod is on duty ~24 hours a day. And that has to stop. The mods are only voluntary after all.

    Just my 2c.

  • Phil

    I agree. Moderating here must be a time consuming and mostly thankless task. So let me add my thanks to Clark and Jon.

  • nevermind

    You can only squeeze so much juice out of a cherry before it turns to mush, Dreolin, I join your concerns.

    Its not that there is a queue of IT savvy contenders for the job, well versed in most aspects of foreign policy, knowledgeable in open source software and encryption matters.

    What trust would we place in a completely new face we’d never knew?
    How would this change the unwritten symbiosis that seem to exist between us collectively, like a life form of its own?

  • Sadly not Ramon Zarate

    Sadly just because your right doesn’t stop you being cast as as a nutter. Ask around about who else went along with the Savile affair to keep their careers on track.

    best wishes.,don’t give up,

    SNRZ

  • Phil

    Mark Golding – Children of Conflict 24 Oct, 2012 – 6:33 pm
    “You are not paying attention – are you Phil”

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at mate. What have I missed?

  • daniel

    A recent study from Stanford concluded that drone attacks are counterproductive for the US in the sense that the killing of muslim civilians in muslim countries creates the conditions for the killing of US civilians by ‘terrorists’ on American soil.

    So how can we explain the US government’s continued justification for their use in a pragmatic sense?

    My only rational explanation is that the US government regards the killing of US civlians on US soil as ‘a price worth paying’ in terms of what are perceived as the implementation of wider US strategic objectives in the region.

    If there is any doubt that the US establishment regards the killing of all civilians as merely a footnote in the pursuit of their long-term aims, then Greenwald’s piece removes all doubt.

  • Mary

    Dave Lawton

    You mean this dangerous indivudual? I see he is an expert on Alki Ada too.

    http://henryjacksonsociety.org/2012/10/24/robin-simcox-discussing-drone-warfare-on-channel-4/

    I wonder if he would like some of the same medicine that is being bestowed on the innocents by the USUKIsNATO axis? He has hate in his heart for the brown skinned people.

    Robin Simcox is a Research Fellow at the Henry Jackson Society. Beforehand, he was a Research Fellow at the Centre for Social Cohesion, a think tank studying extremism and terrorism in the UK. He has written for the likes of the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, New Republic, Weekly Standard and the Guardian; and comments in the media for the likes of the BBC, Sky News, al-Jazeera and Fox News. Robin has spoken on a variety of platforms, including the British Parliament, US Special Operations Command and the European Parliament. Robin has an MSc in U.S. Foreign Policy from the Institute for the Study of Americas, University of London, and a BA in History (International) from the University of Leeds, which included a year at the University of Newcastle, Australia.
    #
    His output
    {http://henryjacksonsociety.org/author/robin-simcox/}

  • lysias

    Anybody know who the aide to the former PM was that Tom Watson said today at PMQ’s was connected to an international pedophile ring?

  • mike

    Sorry for O/T: No mention just now on the main BBC news of Tom Watson’s question at today’s PMQs of a paedophile ring liked to the aide of a former Prime Minister. And yet they talk about an erosion of trust in the corporation! You really couldn’t script it.
    It’s also very convenient that CC Bettison has chosen today to resign. Another lying copper. Another generously feathered early retirement.
    The BBC’s piece on Savile tonight was rushed, stressing that the various inquiries should be allowed to take their course. A line is being drawn under this, and it may well be because it doesn’t stop at Savile. Who knows, it might make the Hollie Greig business look like a little local difficulty (except of course to the woman and her family)

  • Karlof1

    The best parallel with drones are the Terminator movies and the dystopic world they present. Given the fact that those building them desire drones to have the ability to “think” independently, that wolrd is a very distinct probability, and sooner than most think.

  • lysias

    Speaking of drones, I’m just now reading Daniel Klaidman’s Kill or Capture: The War on Terror and the Soul of the Obama Presidency, it’s far too favorably in my opinion to the Obama administration, but it’s nevertheless very informative. What’s particularly depressing in it is that, if the book is right, the Obama administration backed down on things like closing Guantanamo and trying accused terrorists in normal civilian trials because it saw too much political danger in it, because people in Congress opposed such plans because they believe the American people opposed them.

  • Komodo

    “Anybody know who the aide to the former PM was…” (Lysias, 10.07 pm)

    However, The Independent understands that Mr Watson’s comments were not aimed at either Sir Edward (Heath) or Sir Peter (Morrison), but at a living person associated with Margaret Thatcher’s administration.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/was-there-a-paedophile-ring-in-no-10-mp-tom-watson-demands-probe-8224702.html

    The name of Leon Brittan has been borne to some on a light and deniable breeze. Allegedly.

  • lysias

    According to Wikipedia, Leon Brittan returned to government in August 2010 to act as a trade advisor to the new coalition government. Is he still serving in that capacity?

  • Jay

    Like you say Craig, the article says it all.

    How have we got to the posistion. Nothing can be done I fear,

    I am so ashamed that it we behave in this manner.

    Words can’t describe the content of that article.

  • Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    “However representative democracy (what is broadly understood by ‘western democracy’) has nearly exhausted its potential for further improvement.”

    Ev;

    Yes, the Great Experiment…. There is support for the notion some devolution is going on in US democracy, but let me ask you; When Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon man were competing for dominance of their environment, did Evolution stop? I suggest it is ongoing in spite of the premature obituary.

  • lysias

    Democracy does not have to be representative democracy, or at any rate democracy through elected representatives. Although the highest executive officials were elected in ancient Athens, the rest of the government was either direct democracy (all adult male citizens could attend the Assembly, and in practice an awful lot of them did) or representative through representatives chosen randomly, by lot, from all male citizens above the age of 30.

    I think Western countries should seriously consider adopting at least some of that system.

  • Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    Lysias;

    Many of the same hijinks occurred in Grecian politics. Plato, observing wealthy candidates campaigning poor districts said:

    “Your vanity shows through every hole in your garments”.

  • evgueni

    Ben F, Lysias
    Indeed – I have been banging on about it for years now. Representative democracy (parliamentary democracy / parliamentary rule or whatever else they call it) has been superseded, has evolved if you like, in some places. Most notably in Switzerland where they refer to their political system as Direct Democracy. The name is a little misleading since the Athenian democracy is the classical direct democracy. The Swiss system is in fact a representative democracy with direct democracy superimposed as back-up. It is a very effective system of government whatever metric you choose, when compared with the bog-standard ‘regular free elections + free speech’.

  • Ben Franklin (Anti-intellectual Colonial American Savage version)

    Ev;

    Athenian democracy excluded women, and those without military service, from voting. I understand now, that you mean the current dynamic of democracy has reached it’s peak of competence. What, short of Revolution, are the options?. Most I assume would require Amendments to the Constitution (a VERY high bar for our constituents), would they not?

  • evgueni

    Jon, Clark, Mark G – thanks for your encouraging words on a previous thread. I, too, would like to stop by here more often but have very little time to myself these days. Clark – hope your troubles blow over soon, take care.

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