Presidential Debate Sends Me to Bed 291

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Am off to bed having seen 30 minutes of the first US Presidential debate. Anyone who wants to watch more of it should seek counselling. In terms of content it is impossible to distinguish what either of them is actually proposing on taxation policy. What comes over to me is the lack of any divergence from a neo-liberal economic model.

But in terms of style and presentation, which I presume this is about, rather to my surprise Romney is coming over the better. He is glib whereas Obama is stuttering a lot; they are both achingly dull, but Obama’s phrases seem curiously disconnected and there are gaps when you can see the gears meshing in his head. Neither of them shows any evidence whatsoever of charisma.

Four years ago Obama was talking with apparent belief about the need for change and inspiring people to follow him. He may even at the time have believed much of what he promised, but given the speed of abandonment of principle in office, I doubt it. Now Obama is just trying to present as a more managerially competent neo-con; a managerially competent neo-con competition is about the only one Romney can actually perform in.

I don’t really care who wins – debate or election.

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291 thoughts on “Presidential Debate Sends Me to Bed”

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  • JimmyGiro

    Glenn screeched:

    “Last time you said I “minced”, this time it’s “preened”. How old are you – 13 maybe? These school-yard homophobic slurs make you sound like a petty minded, bigoted simpleton.

    Seems you can’t stay on topic either. What do you blame for your homosexual tendencies then, Jimmy-boy? Was it the ritalin, or the gay propaganda?”

    If you believe what you say, then that would make you homophobic.

  • Mary

    Five suspected terrorists including Abu Hamza al-Masri have left Long Lartin prison to begin extradition to the US after losing a long legal battle.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Mary, yes, I heard about it. It’s interesting that on the BBC, every time, the story about the five people about to be extradited to the USA names only Abu Hamza. The rest are referred to as, “others”. Now, if they were white, I’ll bet the reports wouldn’t say, “and others”. This is probably racist but definitely disingenuous, as it makes it appear as though they are all like Abu Hamza – they are all not like Abu Hamza, eg. Babar Ahmed and Talha Ahsan are not at all like Abu Hamza.

    It’s a bad day for ‘British justice’ wrt these two guys esp. – all they’ve ever been asking for is to be charged by the CPS and tried in an English court. Six years and eight years in gaol without charge and now, maybe another three years in solitary confinement in a US gaol before any kind of trial. And what if, in the end, they are found to have been innocent (it is unlikely that this will happen in the USA, but…)? 10+ years in gaol. We – and the USA – tossed away Habeas Corpus and much else that was good. Shame upon us.

  • Ben Franklin

    “Terrible anti-Abu Hamza hate propaganda on BBC tonight. Ms Bruce said that he had been portrayed in the media as a ‘pantomime villain’”

    Mary; Just curious…what kind of man is he?. I used to engage a Palestinian man who was active in the Infitada which was known for sending children into the fray, while people like him supervised.

    I never got a straight answer from him on one salient question; Why wouldn’t you go yourself, rather than send a child?

    Hamza preened and cajoled others to do the dirty work, from his bully pulpit. Are you suggesting he is some kind of victim? I really cannot understand that point of view.

  • Abe Rene

    @Glenn: “It would appear that he’s very used to addressing a disrespectful audience!”

    If that were true (apart from isolated instances of heckling by Tea Party Loonies) would we not have expected a more vigorous performance during the first TV debate? But let’s see if things improve.

    @Craig:”I don’t really care who wins – debate or election.”

    This reminds me of the reaction by Kaarlo Tuomi, Soviet spy caught by the FBI, to the election fought between Nixon and Kennedy. He said to his FBI handlers “It doesn’t mean a thing. Both parties are dedicated to exploiting the masses. It doesn’t matter which wins.” But as the campaign went on, he became a fervent Kennedy supporter. When the result was announced late at night he rang up his handler Jack at 3.20 AM with great excitement. Jack replied, “You woke me up to tell me that? I thought it didn’t make any difference who won.”
    🙂

    (The story BTW is in chapter XII of John Barron’s “KGB: The secret work of Soviet Secret Agents”)

  • Jay

    @ Glenn

    Sorry, I am only saying that the world is seriously messed up and that sex in society is a very powerful emotion.

    I am not at all Homophobic. I am just pointing that the media and society has us all going crazy with all these images and stories and pretensions. If life was simpler, growing up would be simpler. I understand now in schools they are teaching children about all the umpteen Gender Types. We are not children many of the basic principles and heading off into a good career, yet we teach them all the ways to be sexual.
    That can all come later.

    Compassion first, passion later.

    Sex is not that important, relationships are.

  • tony roma

    “Terrible anti-Abu Hamza hate propaganda on BBC tonight. Ms Bruce said that he had been portrayed in the media as a ‘pantomime villain’”

    abu hamza is vital to the uk for internal use.
    this silly villain is a perfect archetype,perfect distraction.
    this man will be kept in the uk as long as possible.
    the most perfect muslim hate figure.
    the hate projection and negative energy gets almost medieval when hooky is mentioned.
    bad news day wheel out asset hamza

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Abe Rene at 10:06pm on 5.10.12: Fascinating vignette and good book recommendation. Thanks!

    Ben, at 9:05pm on 5.10.12: Yes, Abu Hamza was utterly malevolent – taking over the mosque in London, inciting people to go off and commit terrorist acts and distorting religious preaching into a propagandistic brain-washing. He is a religious extremist. We really do not need yet more people like Abu Hamza in the Muslim communities of… anywhere. What he allegedly was doing was doing was illegal and morally, ethically wrong. He still is entitled to a fair trial, whether in the UK or the USA and hopefully he will get one – which is more than he would ever have given others, of course, but that is the nature of civilised society.

    But Talha Ahsan and Baber Ahmed were nothing like that, as far as I am aware. They should’ve been brought to trial in the UK, if the CPS felt it had enough evidence to do that (and if not, then not). If found guilty, so be it; if not, so be it. They have been treated shamefully.

    And so, when the BBC conflates all of the people facing extradition with ‘Abu Hamza’, it effects a gross distortion.

  • glenn

    Jay: In that case, I’m sorry I lumped you in with JimmyGiro’s homosexual panic, err, I mean homophobia. But seriously, Jay – nobody “gets the gay” like some sort of disease, because they’ve been exposed to it.

    Heck, maybe I’m gay but I only like girls and am a bit weird like that – who knows – maybe I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. But the gay friends my wife and I have don’t discomfort me on a sexual front in the slightest. The company of gay people has allowed me to appreciate that they were simply born a little different from hetros. And that’s no big thing, it doesn’t have to bother anyone, it’s not even an issue unless you want to date or have sex with someone of your own gender. The very notion that gays have been taken in by some predacious cabal who want to enlist more and more of them, is just so ludicrous.

    Look at this JimmyGiro freak – I dispute his hideous slurs against gays, so of course I must be one of them. Just like if I don’t like racism, I must be of an ethnic minority myself, or worse still, a “neegra-lover”. Out come all the old stereotypes, “screech”, “mince”, “prance” – all school-yard stuff for sure – but it demonstrates a fear and hatred that can only come from fear of oneself. JG has no evidence that I’m gay, it’s all projection. Anyone not sticking their chest out saying how much they hate gays, must therefore be gay – that’s the “logic” employed!

    *

    But yes, I agree with you that we’re over-sexualising children (if I’m reading you right). And not just for an acceptance for “alternative” lifestyles to the straight nuclear family. They shouldn’t have to be concerned with any of this while still children – god knows there’s time enough to be screwed up by relationship problems.

  • doug scorgie

    Ben Franklin

    You are obviously a right-wing troll and a pretty thick one at that.

    “Mary; Just curious…what kind of man is he?. I used to engage a Palestinian man who was active in the Intifada which was known for sending children into the fray, while people like him supervised.
    “I never got a straight answer from him on one salient question; Why wouldn’t you go yourself, rather than send a child?

    Hamza preened and cajoled others to do the dirty work, from his bully pulpit. Are you suggesting he is some kind of victim? I really cannot understand that point of view.”

    Firstly, Ben Franklin – to correct your grammar; “…what kind of man is he?.” The full stop should be in front of the question mark. Infitada is spelled intifada. “…one salient question; Why wouldn’t you go yourself…”
    After the semi colon the w should be in lower case.

    Also you say: “I used to engage a Palestinian man…” Does this mean that you employed him; in Israel perhaps?
    “… a Palestinian man who was active in the Infitada…” Did he admit to you that he was a terrorist?
    “…the Infitada which was known for sending children into the fray, while people like him supervised.”
    No evidence for that at all.

    Hamza may well be associated with terrorism but there is no evidence that could convict him in the UK. He has spent eight years in prison without charge. Look up habeas corpus (it’s Latin by the way).
    Whether Hamza is a terrorist or not isn’t the question; its habeas corpus and the one sided extradition treaty between the USA and UK.

  • Suhayl Saadi

    Doug Scorgie, 11:30pm on 5.10.12:

    “Whether Hamza is a terrorist or not isn’t the question; it’s habeas corpus and the one-sided extradition treaty between the USA and UK.”

    Absolutely.

  • doug scorgie

    Garry McKinnon extradition:

    Now that the extradition of Abu Hamza to the USA has been decided there are two ways that Theresa May might jump: allow the extradition of Garry McKinnon to the US, as I am sure is her (and the government) instinct; or block the extradition on compassionate grounds to make her and the Tories look human.
    Abu Hamza is a terrorist after all and Garry McKinnon is a mere dysfunctional man who deserves leniency and pity. Has the USA said to May: Give us Hamza and you can keep McKinnon?
    We have to wait and see.

  • glenn

    Hey Suhayl… so you’ve been on the ‘Al-Hilli’ thread – didn’t know that was still going! Clark and I’ve been bogged down trying to inject some semblance of science, sanity and reason onto the “leave-of-absence” thread. Heavy going. Let me check that ‘Al-Hilli’ thread – good, is it? Still, neither of them could be as popular as that famous Mother-Of-All-Threads which probably shouldn’t even be named here.

  • Jay

    Thanks Glenn.

    Enjoy your Autumn, and don’t work to hard. Save some effort for winter.

    Aren’t we the lucky ones.

  • Mary

    Thanks Doug. I was not going to reply to BF when the deep hate of the Muslim is so apparent. The Muslims are as ‘specks of collateral damage’ as they are incinerated by the Hellfire (well named) missiles sent down fron Obama’s drones.

    BF should read:

    Picking Off the Taliban
    http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1349447464.html

    I see the video that is linked has attracted a mere 198 views in over two years. Yet videos of antics of kittens and puppies get millions. Says it all about Yankeeland.

    ~~~

    The logistics of the extraditions were treated in a very light hearted way on Radio 4 Today by Humphrys et al. ….They’ve arrived in NY from Mildenhall in the US aircraft on standby since last Tuesday, will be taken to a secure prison in New York and the trials will last up to three years… and so on.

    ‘They’ are: Abu Hamza, Babar Ahmad, Syed Talha Ahsan, Adel Abdul Bary and Khaled al-Fawwaz. Described as terror suspects on the BBC website. God help them in the ordeal that lies ahead. This is the US version of justice where the President holds a law degree.

    Absolutely no irony.

    Born in Honolulu, Hawaii, Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he was president of the Harvard Law Review. He was a community organizer in Chicago before earning his law degree. He worked as a civil rights attorney in Chicago and taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. He served three terms representing the 13th District in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004, running unsuccessfully for the United States House of Representatives in 2000.

  • Mary

    St Theresa attempts to reveal her humanitarian side here by showing her concern for the unborn foetus.

    Home Secretary Theresa May told the BBC ministers could have “personal views” and she also thought the limit should “probably” be changed to 20 weeks.

    Her colleague Maria Miller now in charge of the DCMS and described elsewhere as hunourless and steely would have the limit set higher.

    BBC website
    ‘Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt has said he would favour a change in the law to halve the limit on abortions from 24 weeks into a pregnancy to 12. His comments to the Times came after Women’s Minister Maria Miller called for a 20-week limit.’

    Maria Miller, a very modern feminist? Don’t make me laugh
    The minister for women lacks the courage to be pro-life, but can’t understand why less privileged women choose abortion
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/05/maria-miller-feminist-abortion?newsfeed=true

  • Guest

    “That I think is the political issue at the heart of this: why is our government simply not trying to stop tax avoidance, as increasing evidence suggests is the reality? Is it that they really want a deficit, and a gutted tax authority, too under-resourced to ever collect the tax owing so that there is no option but cut services? That looks to be the case to me”

    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2012/10/05/the-problem-with-tax-avoidance-is-not-the-bbc-but-that-the-government-will-not-tackle-the-issue/

  • clark

    What? Looking at the comment times, there is no site outage. But there is for several regulars, including Mod/Jon.

    What’s going on?

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