I am off to Baghdad on Sunday for an Arab League conference on Palestinian detainees held in Israel. This is part of my determination to devote more of my time to helping the Palestinian cause. It seems to me we are at a crucial point where the Palestinians are in genuine danger of an accelerated genocide, as Israeli intentions to annex Est Jerusalem and the West Bank become ever plainer.
In retrospect, my life has mostly been based on the idea that I may not be able to do much to help in a particular situation, but it is incumbent on me to try. So I am trying.
A “two state” solution has, from the start, been advanced in bad faith by promoters such as Blair and Bush, with the intention always that it would be a Bantustan solution. For those too young to recall, the grand plan of apartheid South Africa was that the black population would be corraled into a number of small regions which would become “independent states”.
I have said before that I am often pleasantly surprised by Sky News security correspondent Sam Kiley, who seems to get away with talking great sense by hiding behind a Ross Kemp style persona. A couple of days ago he reported from the West Bank that Israel was “moving towards an apartheid state”. There is no doubt that is true – even in Israel proper, there are over three hundred ethnically based Israeli laws prescribing different treatment for Jews and others, across almost every activity of the state. I fear Sam Kiley will not be on mainstream TV long – a tendency to tell the truth being career fatal.
Bibi’s desire to kill off the two state solution is a terrible, genocidal threat but strangely also an opportunity. Botha and De Klerk did not succeed, and Bibi may not either. I personally would have deplored a Bantustan based solution, with crammed and split Palestinian lands deprived of resources, water, communications and any hope of economic viability.
The ultimate solution must involve a proper single state in Israel/Palestine which is blind and fair in its laws to race and religion. That solution can ultimately bring security to the people of Israel, not based on their ability to kill or evict their neighbours and steal their land. The essentials of the agreement will have to be most people staying where they are – including most West Bank settlers – and very serious compensation to dispossessed Palestinians, with the settlements enlarged to become mixed communities.
On the Palestinian detainee question, for me it shows up yet again Israel’s extraordinary capacity for shameless sophistry in matters of international law. Israel justifies its naval blockade on the San Remo Convention, which is only applicable in times of armed conflict. Israel states that it is in a de facto permanent armed conflict. However it denies being in an armed conflict when it comes to its treatment of Palestinain detainees, captured outside Israel, who are not treated as prisoners of war. Both positions cannot be held simultaneously, but secure in the collusion of the West’s bought politicians, Israel does so.
People change over time. There is a polite myth that only a small percentage of Germans were involved in the major evils of Nazism. In fact it was a very large number of people indeed. Seventy years ago it did not seem remotely likely that Germany and the UK would have a future of cooperation and frinedship, but they do. My mother lost her only and beloved brother in the second world war, and I grew up in an atmosphere where extreme anti-German feeling was the norm. It dissipated.
The settlers are human beings, nothing more nor less. They are not devils. Evenly the most embittered conflict is capable of resolution. A single state solution is not impossible. On the other hand a two state solution is impossible, because Israel’s coralling of land and water resources has left no chance of a viable Palestinian state.
Nevermind
The propaganda against Palestinians and in favour of Zionism is so immense that we need a changing of narratives, before we begin debating the details.
This applies as much in the West as in Israel itself. See Jonathan Cook on this.
Finklestein has outlined a two state solution based on the 1967 borders, using the maps etc etc. Look it up. It ain’t rocket science, but Israel has no interest in this.
Until the narrative changes there’s no chance of any solution.
It’s precisely the propaganda which enables Israel to avoid a solution. That’s what it’s for.
“it shows up yet again Israel’s extraordinary capacity for shameless sophistry… secure in the collusion of the West’s bought politicians.”
What’s that, a fancy word meaning to deliberately deceive, mislead or misdirect, i.e. a liar? That must be a recent development because sixty years ago they never even knew what a lie was, according to accepted wisdom at least.
“The propaganda against Palestinians and in favour of Zionism is so immense that we need a changing of narratives”
I honestly don’t know what you could possibly mean…
“There is a polite myth that only a small percentage of Germans were involved in the major evils of Nazism.”
…oh, yes that.
Oniel, tel us what you have done to change the equation? do you get regularly searched and asked awkward questions when you enter Israel? do you have your laptop seized for days on end as other do?
I hear what you say about the secret flights, but the motivation by many was not that they were harassed when the world community agreed to Balfours fine words, but hat many were enthusiastic and wanted to move to Israel.
Tell us what you did to protest against the breaches of international laws of the sea and do you see Melanie Phillips, calling peaceful dead protesters terrorists, as an adequate voice of the diaspora?
sorry to badger you with questions, but it is vital that one understands each others motives
Nevermind – In answer to your questions:
– I haven’t done much to change the situation. That’s not because I don’t want to, but because there is not much I can do.
– Yes I do get searched and asked many awkward questions on entering Israel, as do my whole Jewish family. I understand it’s a security issue, and so I don’t get too bothered by it.
– My laptop has been seized before, but only once and not for weeks. It was returned within 30 minutes. Again, didn’t bother me too much. I just sat there and had a coffee whilst I waited!
With regards to Melanie Phillips, I don’t think her approach is right, although I do agree with SOME of her views. Unfortunately, she does what some posters on here do: polarize the 2 sides further. Ultimately, we all just want to get along, and a middle ground has to be found by the moderates to gain support.
Please don’t apologise for the questions. I, too, am keen to understand opposing views
Good luck with your trip Craig. I don’t know if too many crimes have been committed by Israel on the Palestinians for them to forgive very easily, certainly in the short term. There is also the overwhelming support of Israeli Jews in favour of the aggressive tactics used by Netanyahu’s government which would also make it very difficult for there to be any prospect of living side by side. The first aim should be to try to alleviate the incredible suffering inflicted on the Palestinians, particularly the people of Gaza.
I am sure that everyone knows about this system in operation but in case not….
It was ongoing well before the date of this Guardian article, August 2010.
Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups
Two Israeli groups set up training courses in Wikipedia editing with aims to ‘show the other side’ over borders and culture
Rachel Shabi in Jerusalem and Jemima Kiss
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/18/wikipedia-editing-zionist-groups
Oniel waffles about the ‘middle ground’:
Israeli army officer in South Hebron Hills: ‘Today we demolish the mosque but as soon as we get the court order we will demolish your house as well’
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/israeli-army-officer-after-demolishing-mosque-in-south-hebron-hills-today-we-demolish-the-mosque-but-as-soon-as-we-get-the-court-order-we-will-demolish-your-house-as-well.html
What’s the middle ground here?
Mochyn69 – I never said that the Jewish persecution took precedent over any other injustices in the world. This is where I think people are getting it twisted. Naturally, Jewish people will feel an emotional connection to the injustices carried out against them in the same way Irish people will feel the same.
Unfortunately, I disagree with you about the victim card. Just because Israel carries injustices (which I condemn), doesn’t mean to say that the vitriol aimed at them from outside is proportionate to the crimes the commit. The Guardian for example seems to put so much focus on the Israel Palestine issue when there are far worse atrocities carried out elsewhere. Criticism is fine (and expected), but when worse crimes are carried out elsewhere with little to no condemnation, then it is understandable that Jews/Israeli’s question their Motives/agendas.
Cryptonym – Thanks! Enjoy your dinner.
Peace? Hopefully 🙂
Herbie, absolutely agree with your first sentence and for that reason, this blog, apparently the third most influential political blog there is, should not be seen to stoop to the same rabid level, can you not see this?
We ought to be able to see that a two state solution will never work, all the parameters for this to happen are impossible, only incongruence can help change now, because we are at a stage were the last springs in Gaza and the wets bank are diverted/ guarded by tanks.
I shall say no more, but I have not called for a garden party all summer long for nothing, there’s method behind my madness.
blows a raspberry
“The ultimate solution must involve a proper single state in Israel/Palestine which is blind and fair in its laws to race and religion.”
Yeah right. Good luck with that one Craig. Before you accuse me also of being anti-“a state which is blind and fair in it’s laws” I’m not; it’s simply that I’m enough of a realist to understand that it just isn’t going to happen. One side wants to destroy the other and making them live together in the same state is going to change that. Quite the opposite I’d have thought.
Yonatan 6.29 – Is that the worst you can muster? I’m not going to bore everyone here with some of the comments and speeches made against Israel in recent times by Arab leaders/politicians. If you want to go down the route of Who said what, then please continue. What do you think you’ll achieve?
The situation where we are now is only the way it is because of people who look forward and only see their rear view mirror. If anything is ever going to change, we need to sit down and discuss the way out of here. Unless, of course your only dream is to see the end of Israel – regardless of how many Palestinians suffer in the mean time?
Oniel
“Ultimately, we all just want to get along, and a middle ground has to be found by the moderates to gain support.”
No, no and again no.
This is alwayts the recipe cooked up by the dominant group as they sense a lessening of support for their barbarity.
The Palestinians and Zionists are not equals in this dispute, nor are they equals morally nor in barbarity.
There is no solution until Israel faces up to its crimes, as many many Jews internationally have done. It’s a necessary step.
Peace is only ever made between violent and sworn enemies, not between piggy in the middle people who want to be thought of as “moderate”.
I also find it odd that you’re proposing a single state as a solution for Palestine and Israel yet separation for Scotland and rUK.
I don’t think this has much to do with religion Most of the founders of Zionism were atheist and the Orthodox Jews saw Zionism as blasphemy. Religion is a convenient method of crowd control, as always it is about power and domination.
One state or two I would be happy if it is a lasting solution, I just don’t want the west deciding on the best solution for themselves then bribing and bullying the Palestinians into accepting it, I can’t see that lasting.
Anyway guys I’m off to go and cook the Mrs some well deserved dinner.
Cheers to those of you actually interested in getting out of this mess 🙂
Good night
Whatever anyone says, the killing, shooting and kidnapping of Palestinians by Israel goes on. These statistics are shocking so soon after the Pillar so-called ‘ceasefire’.
[..]
In related news, Israeli soldiers shot and injured a 16-year-old Palestinian from the Al-Boreij refugee camp in central Gaza.
Medical sources in Gaza reported that Jihad Sawarka suffered minor injuries and was moved to the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital.
The attack comes two days after Israeli soldiers shot and injured two Palestinians who allegedly approached the border fence, in eastern Gaza.
Also on Saturday, a 21-year-old Palestinian man died of wounds suffered by Israeli military fire on Friday evening. Another Palestinian, identified as Mustafa Abu Hassanen, died of injuries suffered during the eight-day Israeli war on Gaza.
On Friday Eleven Palestinians were shot and wounded by Israeli military fire; five of them were shot in northern Gaza, four east of central Gaza, and two in southern Gaza.
At least 40 Palestinians have been shot and wounded by Israeli military fire since Egypt brokered the cease fire deal that ended the recent Israeli war on Gaza, and more than 30 Palestinian fishermen have been kidnapped.
The number of Palestinian killed due to Israeli fire and shells during the war, including those who died of their injuries after the ceasefire agreement was reached is 178, most of them were civilians, including children, infants, women and elderly. More than a thousand Palestinians have been injured, also most of them were civilians, including children.
http://www.imemc.org/article/64684
I believe there are few people in this world who fight against injustice in many forms. Craig, I salute you and your efforts. You are a good man.
Craig 5 Dec, 2012 – 6:02 pm
“a two state solution is impossible, because Israel’s coralling of land and water resources has left no chance of a viable Palestinian state”
Both solutions require israeli concessions, which would be better secured in a two state solution. Any one state solution, outside of utopia, could only now happen with a built in dominance. Without that security the us will not let it happen. So it won’t happen and israel continues as it does.
Please take the time to read Chomsky about this. He is hugely informed having fought for palestinian rights far longer than most. He wishes for one state and was arguing for that for many years. He now believes two state is the only way to secure any palestinian rights in the world as it is. He accuses one state liberals of complicity with the us/israeli agenda. He even suggests there is propaganda intended to attract liberals to one state. It’s possibly what gets them invited to conferences. Come on Craig, it’s the arab league. The palestinians will not be freed by the arab league.
http://defenseoftheisraelipeople.wordpress.com/2012/12/03/report-israeli-apostate-blamed-for-uk-anti-semitism/
Apparently Gilad Atzmon has created a new form of anti-Semitism.
Thanks for your replies Oniel. The middle ground, if at all, exists in isolation, is not visible and if you count yourself within, then it is time that the middle ground makes moves to heal the wounds within Israel’s society, tries to negotiate between the two factions, break down the hard ground that has been trampled upon.
We here are inconsequential to your real target, your own people which need persuading, not us, we are malleable and will take peace at it comes and is acceptable to both sides, that we are flagging up the possibilities and have discounted, well most here have, the two state solution as unsustainable and unobtainable comes natural to us.
I’m surprised that you do not know who owns the Guardian Oniel, a loss maker of late, surprised that some outfit actually wants to use this abandoned vehicle at all, a mere shadow of its former self, closely following the BBC.
You say that ‘there is not much I can do’, well if that is so, why the discourse here? with people who are actively engaging and want to see ‘Palesrael’, forgive, succeed as one land and one country.
Why speak to us when you could be speaking to Miss Leibovich? or Gilad Sharon, why expose yourself and attract comments that are although well informed, are seen as attacking you? Does thst make good PR for you/Israel?
I agree with Mochyn on the victim card, the vitriol, as you call it, is well deserved and grounded.
Now that we have come to the point were the ICC is a relevant issue, Israel wants to be able to access EU markets and most likely will try its best to divert from answering to the court, the victim card becomes significant in publicity terms, does it not?
Unless there is a completely new agenda, visible to the world and well meaning, which does not need our input here, until this agenda is discussed openly, water for all, an end to road blocks, meeting with the neighbours, etc. I’m afraid your time here is merely chit chat.
tonight is the night of St. Nikolaus when children out their polished shoes out and wait for either sweets and fruit, if they have been good, or a birch if they acted devious. just sayin.
Oniel:
“I’ll leave you guys to it.”
Cue a stream of further blatherings. Seems you major in Zionist negotiation strategy, being able to continue advancing after having announced your retreat.
Give you a few more hours and you’ll be building an illegal settlement on this thread and claiming half of Craig’s blog as your own.
I just want to endorse others’ sentiments in wishing you good luck in this altruistic vision of yours. It is so good too to see you active on the blog again, Craig Murray, and hopefully fully recovered. Safe journey.
Oniel
I don’t believe the vast majority of Jews who went to Palestine in the decade or so before partitioning actually wanted to go there. I believe that they had national identities, that they felt themselves a countryman of the country their ancestors had lived in for generations. I also believe that many of them would have been professional people or artisans and the only work available in Palestine at the time would have been agricultural labour. They moved because they had to move and they went to Palestine because they couldn’t go to New York.
I don’t believe the people of Palestine wanted huge numbers of Jews moving to their country but they didn’t have a lot of say in the matter, Palestine was a British protectorate.
There are two criminals in this story, our western and east European leaders and the Zionists the rest, I believe, are innocent, victims of circumstances. I don’t think much has changed since.
Lest we forget the pain and suffering still ongoing.
http://electronicintifada.net/content/did-israel-fire-chemical-weapons-gaza-last-month/11973
WRT a single state solution, it seems to me that the most elegant way of dealing with the problems of settlers on forcefully acquired land is by leaving them there and raising a Georgist land (and aquifer) tax.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
“Georgism (also called Geoism or Geonomics) is an economic philosophy and ideology that holds that people own what they create, but that things found in nature, most importantly land, belong equally to all.[1] The Georgist philosophy is based on the writings of the economist Henry George (1839–1897), and is usually associated with the idea of a single tax on the value of land.”
Concern about chemical weapons. The USS Eisenhower carrier group now in the Eastern Med. Patriots for Turkey. Troops in Jordan.
This is another Iraq, right in front of our eyes. “We” had enough proxies in Libya to do the job, but there clearly aren’t the numbers in Syria. So it looks as if “we” are going to invade. It’s based on humanitarian reasons of course, even though the rebels (jobbing fanatics financed and armed by foreign powers) are doing all the un-humanitarian stuff, like slaughtering schoolkids. Where have we seen that recently?
This is the old imperial juggernaut, on shock doctrine steroids, as it has been since October 2001.
Oniel Samuel left us by saying that he wass off to cook his wife some supper.
Since then, there has been silence from him.
Is it too much to hope that he might have got food poisoning?
Agent Cameron’s speech to his paymasters. Supping with the devil.
http://www.redressonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cameron.pdf
{ http://www.redressonline.com/2012/10/who-does-agent-cameron-work-for/ }