I am delighted that a new canpaign has started today against the state enforced child slavery in the uzbek cotton industry, especially as this campaign originates in Germany, where a significant portion of society appears to have finally woken up to the reality of the German government’s appalling complicity in the Nazi style regime and atrocities of Karimov.
However in the UK it remains the case that since the coalition government came to power, there has not been one single government statement on the human rights atrocities in Uzbekistan or – even more damning of our sham democracy – one single statement or question from New Labour.
“At this rate of inane questions, for some reason it rather does seem that you desperately want to put yourself forward !”
Another “don’t know” then.
For an expert on trolls you don’t seem to know much.
O/T
From a review of “We Steal Secrets: The Story of Wikileaks”, Alex Gibney’s new documentary:
http://www.screendaily.com/reviews/the-latest/we-steal-secrets-the-story-of-wikileaks/5050934.article
“… while also probing the sensationalistic Swedish rape allegations against Assange that coincidentally erupted at the same time. But the film shrewdly squashes the conspiracy theories and reveals the banal truths behind the sex case.
We Steal Secrets is impressively researched, including interviews with nearly everyone involved, from a former CIA director to Assange’s second-in-command to one of the Swedish women who accused Assange of rape. However, the filmmakers did not have direct access to Manning, who is in a military prison, and Assange, who is hiding out in Ecuador’s consulate in the UK.”
Interviewing Anna Ardin? Assange is legally barred from discussing the allegations publicly, so isn’t this film prejudicial to any potential future trial?
When challenged that the title of the film itself “We Steal Secrets” was not only factually wrong, but incredibly prejudicial given the ongoing Grand Jury investigation in the US, Alex Gibney claimed the title was actually a quote from the CIA’s Michael Heyden, who appears in the film at one point. He’s been roasted alive on Twitter for the absurdity of this statement.
Also posting this on the Why I’m Convinced Anna Ardin is a Liar thread – seems apt – and on the previous page, about the Sam Adams Awards ceremony at the Oxford Union, where Assange will be the subject of an LGTB-organised protest on the basis of Anna Ardin’s claims.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/09/why-i-am-convinced-that-anna-ardin-is-a-liar/comment-page-6/#comment-390114
One of our most eminent posters (at 18h45 on 22 Jan.), referencing a speuclative article in the Daily Telegraph – a MSM usually excoriated on this blog – writes in somewhat negative vein as follows:
“Even the singing of the American National Anthem yesterday was a sham. Beyonce mimed and the Marines Band pretended to play their instruments.”
This calls for two comments :
1/. So what? The Telegraph article makes it clear that songs at inaugurations are always pre-recorded and that Beyonce decided at the last moment to go with the pre-recording. So again : so what?
2/. The use of the word “even” would seem to suggest that the poster considers that at least one other feature of the inauguration ceremony (perhaps even many or all of them?) was also a sham. Which other element or elements did the eminent poster have in mind?
Just asking!
Nevermind; I guess the flick is critical of Assange, and I say, let the warts fly. The character flaws of whistleblowers (Manning) or Hackers like julian, make them more human. Very few persons in this role have pristine moral fiber and iron-clad behaviors. Daniel Ellsberg was accused of being a publicity seeking narcissist, but without concrete examples, other than his disgust with the machine he made his bones with in a previous life. I look forward to the film, as I feel that a search for happiness must include a search for knowledge. I feel sure it will be limited release, and will have to travel mucho kilometers to see, but whatever. Thanks for the tip.
Strike Nevermind, insert ‘Arbed’…..sorry Dood.
Guano,
Russia has signed a security Memorandum of Understanding with Iran. That was probably the limit Putin would go after I appealed to him to amend Iran’s SCO observer status to include protection and military aid afforded to full members. (Incidentally he did not reply to my letter)
Dodgy connections apart my motive and ambition is to anticipate and counteract the massacre of children on a scale of the outrageous and monstrous magnitude recorded in the recent history of Iraq.
The ‘million march’ was not enough, capitulation and bowing to Blair’s warning speech of “bloody consequences” if Iraq was not confronted.
My case rests with the impotence and prostrate incompetence of the Stop the War Coalition, the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and the Muslim Association of Britain. Telum imbelle – The ‘Shock & Awe’ murders is your albatross, you will hold the bag of pain and misery until the end.
http://tehrantimes.com/politics/105095-iran-russia-sign-security-agreement
@Habbabkuk: First paragraph rewritten:
It would be unwise to just give a overall conclusion on whether a society is civilised or not, based on whether it passes a certain standard in each of the categories we discussed. Even saying that it passed a particular category is fraught with difficulty – is respect of human rights more important than respecting healthcare and social needs, for instance? Is openness of government more important than social mobility? Is sexism worse than racism? What I’m getting at is the difficulty of trying to objectively decide that a country is civilised, when there are multiple factors all of which require its own rating system.
And that’s only for the present moment – if we are to look at any country through its history, virtually all nations require nothing but the sternest condemnation. (Con-Dem-nation? That’s where we are now!)
*
Just briefly, on points B & C, or we’ll never get this over with…
B: Most of the development “assistance” we gave to other countries, such as India since we’ve been talking about it, has been designed to more efficiently remove the resources from that country. Not introducing structure out of our sheer benevolence – hence the railway system in India and so on. That’s not to say we were altogether bad, certainly we liked to introduce structures of government along our lines, and have them run by their people, on our behalf. This has to be better than the American style of imposing a filthy despot who will dictate to his people on the America’s behalf.
C: Indeed. Which is why we should heed the precautionary principle a heck of a lot more seriously than we do now, particularly in regard to GMOs, climate-changing emissions etc. .
Thank you for the opportunity for this discussion.
There’s a little bit of the troll in all of us, our inner troll, striving to get out, they’re mostly harmless Standard Trolls [1], hardy self-sufficient sons and daughters of the blog landscape. Here we face a differing mutant troll [2], sprung from collective Zionist troll farms, where working parties of bought and sold troll day labourers, shirtless peasants – as often as not revolting – troll to order for a begrudged subsistence from cruel troll-master factors, who live in contrasting splendour and ease, reaping undue rewards.
In due course these serfs of the troll czardoms will certainly strive to throw of that tyrannous yoke, if they ultimately fail in their rebellion, ruthless retribution might assail them and a newer even less appealing, uglier poor sort [3] might take their place.
[1] Trollus Mundanicus
[2] Trollus Feudalis
[3] Trollus Invertebrate
Concerning trolls:
The way it got explained to me, back in the day when trolls, Usenet and so on were fairly well unknown, was that “trolling” was the term for a form of fishing. Troll boats would throw over a whole bunch of lines, with many separate hooks and barbs attached, all at different lengths, often with diverse forms of bait.
This would anchor itself in a flowing river or motor upstream slowly. The point was to dangle lots of bait, to hopefully invoke many bites.
@DougScorgie 8.28pm
“Dear posters,
Those of you that think Habbabkuk is stupid must wake up and understand that s/he is as intelligent as others on this blog but s/he has an agenda and that is to disrupt this blog and perhaps other blogs that are of similar vein.”
Exactly right Doug. Habbabkuk is in fact VERY good at trolling, looking to see who he can get on his side and engaged with, while bullying and attempting to intimidate others. He is not just stupidly inflammatory like most trolls.
He is not a joke.
Fred – in case you really dont know a troll is someone whose aim is to disrupt a blog, to prevent discussion, and drive away its serious readers. Sometimes they are motivated by a perverse kick from annoying people, sometimes (as Habbabkuk) by a fundamental antipathy to the aims of the blog or the viewpoint of the community.
“The point was to dangle lots of bait, to hopefully invoke many bites.”
They call it ‘chumming” in the US, Glenn, but I don’t think it has any friendly intent.
Fishermen use the practice, because it provides results.
Question; Jon. What happened to my avatar?
@ Ben, 12.22am
Hi Ben, it wasn’t the character assassination that concerned me – all whistleblowers get that, kinda goes with the territory – it was the potential of this ‘documentary’ to prejudice future trials, US and/or Swedish. I’d be interested to hear what a lawyer makes of that – if we have any commenting here in Craig’s blog.
Hey Phil W: I think you’re wrong about the motives of some people here. While the subject at hand might be derailed for a moment, it’s not always because that’s all the wanted – to distract, derail. WRT Habbabkuk, I think it’s because he’s got his own agenda which he needs to have aired, and frankly he does argue his case with conviction and is pretty civil with it for the most part.
We’ve seen him before, but that’s not a problem.
His genuine interest in making us consider certain points is not trolling. Trolling is what we get from the teabagger Larry (and innumerous other titles), making strawman denunciations, simplistic wind-ups and insults. Others do it just for attention.
These threads do drift off with time, it’s not wrong to engage with a genuine individual as a sideline to the main conversation.
It resembles a relay event too. Fred has taken over from ‘Alan Campbell’ (formerly known as Guest) now responsible for random unhinged scathing barbs directed at the Scottish National Party; more happy though than AC was in playing a longer game, plus protracted diversionary bickering, rather than AC’s hit and run style incendiary attacks. Basically a Brit-Nat agent ultimately sold to a pro mainstream party (Labour Unionist) dire status-quo agenda, evidence of other confounding traits notwithstanding. Russian doll style complexity and multiple levels of almost convincing cover, before any real identity and motivation are uncovered, mark the subtler more sophisticated troll from the overt monomaniacal ones.
Re: Habba… (who IS stupidly inflammatory) and etymology, there is the ‘Habbad/Hassidic’ movement, lead by a rabbinical Fuhrer, a description of which I found in Israel Shahak’s ‘Jewish History Jewish Religion The Weight of Three Thousand Years’ a fine book found at that link Kempe kindly provided on the Sizer thread; the bizarre scary contemptible and inhuman beliefs of which movement I’ll omit, as they might appall gentler readers.
What’s in a name though?
Cryptonym: Good question – let’s ask him. Habbabkuk – can you briefly give us your take on the Palestinian question?
Bravo for Shimri, Shahaf, Mousa and good Hanin
Israeli citizens “donate” their ballot to Palestinians
The Lebanon Daily Star (linked via Reddit.com) reports news of the “Real Democracy” project – a joint campaign launched by Israeli and Palestinian peace activists, attracting “thousands” of participants.
As a Palestinian living in the West Bank, Mousa Maria has no legal right to vote in Israeli elections this week, but thanks to this campaign an Israeli voter, Shahaf Weisbein, will be casting a ballot for him for the Arab-Israeli party Balad. Shimri Zameret, a 28-year-old Israeli activist who helped Maria to set up the initiative, is donating his vote to a 19-year-old Palestinian.
Its candidate, Hanin Zoabi, the first Arab Israeli woman to be elected to the Israeli legislative body on an Arab party’s list, faced attempts to disqualify her from the Knesset last month: “The Israelis tried to stop her from being a member of the Knesset and I think that she needs support, and if she knows that some Palestinians support her too it will make her feel stronger,” Mousa Maria told AFP.
/..
http://civilisation3000.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/israeli-citizens-donate-their-ballot-to-palestinians/
A transcript here of the conversation between Amy Goodman, Jeremy Scahill and Rick Rowley at the Sundance Film Festival in Utah.
AMY GOODMAN: We have flown from Washington, D.C., from the inauguration, to Park City, Utah, to cover the Sundance Film Festival. It’s the 10th anniversary of the documentary track. And we’re going to start off by getting response to President Obama’s inaugural address. On Monday, President Obama declared a decade of war is now ending and that lasting peace does not require perpetual war. But he never mentioned the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan by name.
There was also no mention about the secret drone war that’s vastly expanded under President Obama. On the same day he gave his inaugural address, a U.S. drone strike killed three people in Yemen east of the capital, Sana’a. Also Monday, President Obama officially nominated John Brennan to be director of the CIA, succeeding retired Army General David Petraeus, who resigned. Nicknamed the “assassination czar” by some, Brennan was the first Obama administration official to publicly confirm drone attacks overseas and to defend their legality. Four years ago, John Brennan was a rumored pick for the CIA job when Obama was first elected but was forced to withdraw from consideration amidst protests over his role at the CIA under the Bush administration. Obama also officially nominated Chuck Hagel to head defense and John Kerry to become secretary of state on Monday.
Well, joining us here in Park City, Utah, is Jeremy Scahill, national security correspondent for The Nation magazine. He is featured in and co-wrote the new documentary Dirty Wars: The World is a Battlefield. Jeremy’s latest book, with the same title, is due out in April.
We’re also joined by Dirty Wars director Richard Rowley, independent journalist with Big Noise Films. The film premiered here at the Sundance Film Festival in the U.S. documentary competition section. And when we flew into Salt Lake City last night, we went directly to the Salt Lake City Library, where there was a packed, sold-out crowd to see the—a showing of Dirty Wars. We want to congratulate you, Jeremy and Rick, on this absolutely remarkable film.
/…
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/1/22/dirty_wars_jeremy_scahill_and_rick
There is a clip of the film in the accompanying video.
Cameron’s EU speech is dominating the news this morning. Both news channels have covered it live to the exclusion of actual news. Now Cameron is calling for questions and is consulting a list of selected names of the various reporters there. Are they working from the script too? One of the last to be called was his stooge Nick Robinson of the BBC (see Medialens for info on him and his role in the propaganda machine). The speech was made at the London HQ of Bloomberg.
PS Cameron seems to have been trained up in the use of an autocue rather than reading from notes. I think that he really believes he will leave a legacy behind. Some sort of 21st century Churchill perhaps.
The eponymous Mayor Bloomberg meanwhile is attacking the livelihoods of those involved in the NY education system by attnepting to break a union.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/01/class-war-goes-from-classroom-to-school-bus-in-new-york-city/
Good morning to all here at Craig’s, but an especially good morning to the pure of heart. If you’re like me, you find yourself questioning your own motives from time to time; all decent people have to do this as a form of psychological self-audit.
To those here with impure hearts; you can become aware of your own impurity, because you know that the arguments you post here are secondary, fashioned to serve another purpose which you do not disclose. For some of you, I suspect, more direct evidence arrives periodically in the form of a pay-packet, and in your cases, the primary purpose may not even have been disclosed to you by your paymasters, who instead give you only “targets”, or maybe, if you have gained sufficient approval, “objectives”.
I’ll warn you; there is a force acting upon you, and it is the strongest force in all reality. It is not well understood, but it is the same force that has driven the development of our universe from a meaningless fireball into the gloriously diverse realm of which we are each tiny, yet highly meaningful parts. Sometimes it is called “love”, though base emotions have also been given that label. It is all-pervasive, somehow present even in the interaction between the strange patterns of pixels that constitute this text and the responses that they invoke in your being. It is the same force that acted overnight in my sleep to refresh me, somehow hauling me back from the brink of self-destruction, awaking me replenished, again ready to serve the greater good as best I can.
So fear not. We may be the tools and playthings of the powerful, but the powerful in turn will prove to be mere instruments of the great creative force. Destruction can be huge and terrifying, but it is only ever a step in the great journey of creation, just as the supernovae of the first generation stars served to disperse the higher chemical elements which were a prerequisite to our own existence.
Now, what shall I do today? Let’s see…
“Fred has taken over from ‘Alan Campbell’ (formerly known as Guest) now responsible for random unhinged scathing barbs directed at the Scottish National Party; more happy though than AC was in playing a longer game, plus protracted diversionary bickering, rather than AC’s hit and run style incendiary attacks. Basically a Brit-Nat agent ultimately sold to a pro mainstream party (Labour Unionist) dire status-quo agenda, evidence of other confounding traits notwithstanding. Russian doll style complexity and multiple levels of almost convincing cover, before any real identity and motivation are uncovered, mark the subtler more sophisticated troll from the overt monomaniacal ones.”
So you see a troll as someone who puts the facts in the way of the propaganda.
I don’t know that I have been more critical of the Scottish government than I have of the British government, or the Blair government or the American government or the Israeli government.
Strangely enough everyone else who didn’t agree with Cryptonym’s politics just happened to be a troll as well.
Watch what you say about the SNP folks or Salmond’s black shirt will be giving you a going over.
Ben Franklin, hello – you were misspelling your email address very slightly. I suspect you have a previously-used items feature in your browser, and are selecting the one that is missing a letter! Fixed a few just now.
Clark, hello – good to see you pop in.
“The way it got explained to me, back in the day when trolls, Usenet and so on were fairly well unknown, was that “trolling” was the term for a form of fishing.”
Ah the good old days before they invented html and the internet went downhill fast.
This is a fairly comprehensive list of the other people used to post there too:
http://www.messybeast.com/dragonqueen/newsgroup-users.htm
Thanks for that immensely moving post Clark and I’m so glad that you have managed to fix your computer, you are such a clever man.
I could not agree more with you, love is so much more important than anything. Love works best with if there is trust and mutuality, it can not work as a commercial concept. You can love as a single entity, as two of you, or as a group, all are powerful because its love that counts.
If we here want to reach the bits we never reach with words, i.e. actions, then we have to love people, care for them and their issues and stand up for humanity, being interested is not enough, imho.
This sentence was particularly striking on the site you linked to Fred.
“”Warning. Brain Overload. Cerebral Breach Imminent. Cerebrum Will Now Be Ejected.”
It points to the nature of the dragon beasty, but s/he seems lively enough and with something else to to for ‘balance’. thanks
Good morning Jon and Nevermind.
Nevermind, I haven’t yet fixed my computer problem, and I still can’t access e-mail easily, but I’m using the freedom enabled by free software, booting up on a LiveCD so that I can do everything else; as usual, standing upon the shoulders of giants confers a huge advantage.
This is obviously adapted from Star Trek, and reminded me of one of my own:
” warning: this parsec contains flip flopping multidimensional nanojoules that could destroy your warp drive”
Jon, thanks for the advice about Birmingham snow conditions. There are a few other concerns in cold weather when you reach my age, like how the joints are affected. The bike’s only been in the garage for a week, and I nearly always cycle to the pub quiz on Wednesday nights, when I go, which I did last week. It’s a Dawes Discovery 501, the bike that took me through Belgium, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania in 2001. By that time I had worn out a Saracen which had done my long journey and the North and South Islands of New Zealand.
I’ll soon be back to my evening spin round by Wythall and past Kings Norton Golf Course, about 12-15 miles depending on which route I take. Not very far I know but helps keep the heart pumping. Glad to hear there are other cyclists in Birmingham.
Its the day for dreamers, whilst Cameron sweaty dreams of roaming backbenchers and UKIP monsters led him to make the promises for a referendum today, s usual without nay meat to it, bar his preferences,….
there is another bunch of dreamers who, since the world is surrounded by more and more space junk orbiting this beautiful planets like angry and dangerous Mosquito’s in all sizes, hope to mine asteroids and other nearby passing space objects.
Now that humanities unsustainable actions and degradation of this planet is coming into its final phase, don’t get me wrong, its just us that will demise, not nature or some diversity, these dreamers are looking to mine precious metals and such from our solar systems errant visitors.
what fun. Should they be allowed to do this, or add more space junk to the already congested stratosphere? Are NASA and ROSCOSMOS to be trusted, responsible enough, looking at their past record of crashing satellites,to clean up the rubbish they left, which is effectively making space flight and exploration a dangerous gamble for all nations?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/across-the-universe/2013/jan/23/asteroid-mining-deep-space-industries