I am delighted that a new canpaign has started today against the state enforced child slavery in the uzbek cotton industry, especially as this campaign originates in Germany, where a significant portion of society appears to have finally woken up to the reality of the German government’s appalling complicity in the Nazi style regime and atrocities of Karimov.
However in the UK it remains the case that since the coalition government came to power, there has not been one single government statement on the human rights atrocities in Uzbekistan or – even more damning of our sham democracy – one single statement or question from New Labour.
“We’re beginning to get a little bit sour now are we. With your anatomically expressed remarks like your latest “Fuck off shit for brains.”, Dr Shred you are making Mr Habbabkuk look distinguishably eloquent. Even he hasn’t fallen so low. Whereas you Fred, are spiritually bankrupt and verbally challenged. Good cop/Bad cop or not, you two do make quite a pair.
The good thing about long threads, especially twisted ones like this, is people have a long enough rope to hang themselves.”
Work it out for yourself fuckwit, he didn’t make the posts being complained about, shit heads like you made them.
@ Habbabkuk
I agree it was an inflated estimate and I agree you’re not the only one to blame for the situation (as my Mam constantly told my brothers and I, “It takes two to argue”). However, as you acknowledge, we do have a problem, and unless we want to be treated like naughty school boys, it’s up to us to sort it out.
Another straight question: What measures, if any, will you take to reduce your contribution to the problem?
The other one-third are about you, or are soon to be.
Btw ‘Fred’ can you put a condom onto your tongue please…and don’t make it shred. We shan’t puncture it i assure you, only your ego. By the way your vulgarities are quite impressively contemporary for the old shrivelled human being you are.
“Btw ‘Fred’ can you put a condom onto your tongue please…and don’t make it shred. We shan’t puncture it i assure you, only your ego. By the way your vulgarities are quite impressively contemporary for the old shrivelled human being you are.”
Go fuck yourself.
Fred: “Go fuck yourself.”
Oh no thats your patent specialisation when you say “_________ posts are bad, they direct our attentions inwards towards ourselves where there is nowhere to go but up our own arseholes.”
Perhaps you’ll link us a video of your performance? Either way, we’ll leave that acrobat as your intellectual property.
@ A Node : what measures will I take to reduce my contribution to the problem?
Well, I’m not sure why you’re asking me to reply to that question either first or even uniquely. To answer it first could be read as(or claimed to be) an admission that I am the starting point of the problem – an assumption with which I’d have some problems. It could also be misinterpreted as meaning that the problem is between me on the one hand and the other posters on the other, whereas I think it’s been amply shown that quite a few people are slagging off quite a few others.
If I were to take an absolutist position, I’d say that I have nothing to apologise about when I post to point out, in a civil way, the errors or plain silliness of some of the other posts or parts thereof. The fact that the posters I pull up are unable to overcome my brutual intellect and unanswerable logic and resort instead to wounded silence or vulgar aggression cannot be used to somehow cast me as the villain of the piece.
Happy Burns’ Night to Craig and all other Scots.
This one seems apt. Hope the spacing works.
A Winter Night
When biting Boreas, fell and doure,
Sharp shivers thro’ the leafless bow’r;
When Phoebus gies a short-liv’d glow’r,
Far south the lift,
Dim-dark’ning thro’ the flaky show’r,
Or whirling drift:
Ae night the storm the steeples rocked,
Poor Labour sweet in sleep was locked,
While burns, wi’ snawy wreeths upchoked,
Wild-eddying swirl,
Or thro’ the mining outlet bocked,
Down headlong hurl.
List’ning, the doors an’ winnocks rattle,
I thought me on the ourie cattle,
Or silly sheep, wha bide this brattle
O’ winter war,
And thro’ the drift, deep-lairing, sprattle,
Beneath a scar.
Ilk happing bird, wee, helpless thing!
That, in the merry months o’ spring,
Delighted me to hear thee sing,
What comes o’ thee?
Whare wilt thou cow’r thy chittering wing
An’ close thy e’e?
Ev’n you on murd’ring errands toil’d,
Lone from your savage homes exil’d,
The blood-stain’d roost, and sheep-cote spoil’d
My heart forgets,
While pityless the tempest wild
Sore on you beats.
Robert Burns
Beautiful stuff.
@Villager, two bits of advice, iro a of couple of Posters;
” Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
“Never wrestle with a pig—you get dirty and the pig likes it”
I’m sure you can decide which saying applies to which Poster.
Anyhow, further to your “re Campbell i did get a quick look and thank you. I confess i am not much of a reader”
Try this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQRQJpBnHyg
&
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7I5vvBjnaA
Thanks for your resume of how the issue of Uzbekistan’s murderous Karimov family and Government has enslaved children and, no doubt killed many.
This pressure, just to bring this back on track after too much fuckwit&Co. it has to be mentioned that many/most foreign companies that invested millions in developing Uzbekistan have been bullied and harassed by these gangsters and since see Uzbekistan as the proverbial pits.
The risks involved in being done over by the dictators regime are too great for many and they have left. As soon as NATO countries have found other means of moving their hardware in and out of Afghanistan and as soon as karimove the elder is dead, the country will erupt and its neighbours might just want to help in that.
If there ever was a country worth overthrowing then its this festering sore.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/48736878/Hecker_The_Risks_and_Dangers_of_Doing_Business_in_Uzbekistan
“Another straight question: What measures, if any, will you take to reduce your contribution to the problem?”
Fuckwit.
Fred
25 Jan, 2013 – 7:25 pm
“Another straight question: What measures, if any, will you take to reduce your contribution to the problem?”
Fuckwit.
—-
A Node, its over to you.
” Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
Quite right, don’t bother trying to argue with them just tell them where to go in no uncertain terms.
Macky, thanks for your friendly advice and the links. Will definitely get a look at them and revert.
—
Apologies to all for the distraction but i think i’d vote for Runner77’s remark way up there that, as this thread shows, some very basic guidance for self-moderation would be helpful in maintaining the health of this blog.
Mary, Arbed, thanks for the video of Julian Assange’s Oxford speech. The best thing to do is to make this film suffer at the box-office by not going to see it.
The film John Goss is a precursor and advertisment for the game – expected to top the shoot-me-up and strategy gaming market. Some say, Well ‘wot’s in a film’ or ‘it’s only a game’ – sure for some kids that is 22% correct.
Instead of a shoot-to-kill game – this toy also makes a real good birthday present for the 3-12yrs old:
175 children are among at least 2,347 people reported killed in US drone attacks in Pakistan since 2004.
http://s1354.beta.photobucket.com/user/Mark_Stephen_Golding/media/predator_zps81ae58c5.png.html?sort=3&o=0
Oh sorry – you don’t know Albert Bandura Ph.D. et al. and their ‘Bobo doll’ type films, games and experiments.
http://psychology.about.com/od/classicpsychologystudies/a/bobo-doll-experiment.htm
@ Habbabkuk
I’m addressing you because I judge you to be susceptible to reason, please prove me right. However, what I’m about to say applies to a few others here.
We agree we have a problem.
Another thing we can surely agree on is that this blog is very unusual, a meeting place for thoughtful, knowledgeable discussion, frequented by some well connected insiders. I’ve been searching for a place like this since I got my first modem, somewhere I can learn and contribute. What makes this blog almost unique? I believe it’s largely due to its informal nature – no registration, very few rules, a very light touch by the moderator. It works because Craig and Jon treat us as adults, trust us to behave responsibly rather than dictate to us how we must behave. We have to justify that trust or lose this special place. Those who call for registration and banning of certain posters, are missing the point, perhaps deliberately so. They would regulate this haven until only approved ideas are allowed, throw the baby out with the bath water.
However this blog’s strength is also its weakness. The freedom here makes it very easy to disrupt. It’s a very delicate balance.
There are regular contributors to this blog whose purpose is to spoil it. Some are easy to spot, others more subtle, some with sock puppets may be both. One shill can cause an awful lot of disruption. That is why it is necessary for the rest of us to cooperate against them, exercise self restraint even when provoked, remain united in the face of cynical mischief. I would even say that it is important that we do so, that we preserve this rare oasis of cooperation and reason in a world which wants to destroy such places.
Are you a shill, Habbabkuk? I don’t think so, but I may be wrong. I think you’re just argumentative. I enjoy a good bicker as much as the next person, but that’s not what I come to this blog for. If I want slanging matches and flame wars, I have plenty choice elsewhere. I’m sure that’s true for the majority of bloggers here. But if you’re not a shill, it has to be said that a lot of your posts have the effect of one – disruption, division, distraction. You can also be clever, amusing and insightful. Please respect the wishes of the majority and concentrate on the latter. I don’t doubt you’d make a fine job of promoting your views, and there’d be a queue of people wanting to take you on. Then if you’re not a shill, your behaviour won’t make people think that you are. And if you are a shill, you’ll have a great platform to try and win us over by reason.
And BTW, my Mam wasn’t too impressed with the “He started it” defence either.
My little joke about Cameron filling his nappies trying to look serious about Europe has made me chuckle all day. Maybe people skip past my entries as I do these pointless personal squabbles.
http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1550664.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/David+Cameron
@ A Node : it would be remiss of me not to reply, but having done so – and perhaps after reading your response if you wish to make one – I think we should put an end to the exchange. I’m no less a show-off than any other man, but this over-attention from posters (even if only from a small minority of posters, to be completely accurate)is not very healthy for a number of reasons.
The principles you advance are of course sound. But, as always, the problem lies in their translation into concrete facts or events and in the interpretation of the latter. In other words, the theory is fine, the practice rather more complicated.
Let me try to obtain guidance by putting two questions based on conbrete examples of previous posts.
1/. You’ll remember that as part of her reply to someone else’s post, Mary asserted that the UK was not a civilised country. I found this objectionable and so asked her to name, by way of illustration, a couple of countries she did find civilised. As it happens, she didn’t reply, but i tecall that a couple of others stepped into the breech and attempted to fling a few pails of dung over me. Question : should I not have posed that question? Or should I have phrased it differently, eg “Mary, why do you find the UK not to be civilised”?.
2/. Someone produced a list of 12 crimes the US was responsible for in Afghanistan (it was something like that, anyway). Noting that on this blog the US invariably gets stick, whereas President Assad rarely does, I pointed out that 1O of those 12 crimes had also been/were still being practised by President Assad and wondered aloud whether the poster to whom I was replying would also now condemn President Assad in the same way as he had just condemned the US. Question : should I have refrained from sending my post?
Glad to hear your reply if you feel like it.
Mark Golding, it’s a problem, playing games in particular, since most children play them, and the developers make them gratuitously violent. How do you stop it? Society is breeding the individuals who sit behind joysticks in military offices killing people in far-away lands, they’ve never met, whose families they have never met. Even these cowards will probably end up on a psychiatrist’s couch in later years when something registers in their pea-brains.
@Guano loved it – and great choice of picture
The earliest manifestation from Habbakuk, yes it was not Habbabkuk then, was on the Jimmy Savile Low Hangig Fruit thread back in November. Wonder what drew him in then? These are the first exchanges which started with a go at Craig himself. Judge for yourselves.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/11/savile-and-the-low-hanging-fruit/
~~
Habbakuk
2 Nov, 2012 – 5:38 pm
I agree with Lysias above.
Add Oscar Wilde and various other Victorian characters. And what about all those modernday politicians who were named, shamed, and resigned (the Tory who was caught under a bush in one of the London parks with a guardsman, the Labout minister who had the moment of madnes, etc, etc, etc…)?
BTW @Mary : oysters are not, repeat not, fattening
~~
craig
2 Nov, 2012 – 6:10 pm
Habbakuk Don’t be daft. Of course in matters of human behaviour there is no general rule to which there is not the odd exception
~~
Mary
2 Nov, 2012 – 6:19 pm
BTW @Mary : oysters are not, repeat not, fattening
I did not say that they were. The writer on the Scarborough Maritime History Centre website said it.
~~
Habbakuk
2 Nov, 2012 – 9:43 pm
Craig, I think it’s you who is being a bit daft this evening. Or showing your FCO training.
Oldest trick in the book :
A makes an assertion
B contradicts that assertion, setting out some facts
Craig says oh, no, A’s assertion is correct, the facts that B brought into play are just exceptions to the general rules as set out by A.Habbakuk
~~
Habbakuk
2 Nov, 2012 – 9:45 pm
Well done, Mary, always vigilant, aren’t you.
But a bit to touchy and self-righteous for my taste.
BTW, how’s your garden getting on, and the hens (or was it cocks)?
~~
Jives
3 Nov, 2012 – 1:56 am
@ Habbakuk,
That’s a really bad post you directed at Mary earlier.
You may disagree with her-fine- but the latter tone of your post was ugly,personal and,as i read it,almost sinister in its personal dimension.
Who the fuck do you think you are?
~~
nevermind
3 Nov, 2012 – 12:23 pm
habbakuk, the non person, is able to solve the captcha, so he’s in, well done.
There is no need to fight, rancour or colour favours here. We do at times let rip, dearest newbie, but try not to get personal. I know how hard it is at times.
Mary happens to be a wealth of information an asset prone to CSI, I bet she has to bath her fingers in asses milk every evening to attain their usual subtleness thereafter and she does not need such jibes.
So leave it out.
~~
Habbabkuk
3 Nov, 2012 – 1:49 pm
Thank you for that post, Craig.
And now, how about a response – or better still, an apology – from Jives?
~~
Komodo
3 Nov, 2012 – 2:42 pm
I think Jives is still waiting for a response from you, Hab. Namely, who the XXXX do you think you are? One from me – have you anything to say on the topic? Or are you only here to troll?
Probably best not to feed you. Ends.
~~
Habbabkuk
3 Nov, 2012 – 4:00 pm
@ Komodo : “who the XXXX are you” was your question. I think Craig answered that one, didn’t he?
I shan’t bother to ask you who you are (note the absence of the XXXX)
~~
Jives
3 Nov, 2012 – 6:10 pm
Habbabkuk,
1. No,im certainly not going to apologise to you.
2. Your post to Mary was patronising and then simply got weirder.You said she was “touchy and too self-righteous” for your taste but offered no counter argument or salient points.After your characterisation you strangely enquired after her garden. So,from a personal slight to a personal question do you really expect to be viewed,or answered favourably? Really? To me there was something unsettling about the style and tone.
3. Dont tell me what posts i should or shouldnt react or respond to.Or how i should be responding.I’ll make my own mind up,thank you.
4. I refuse to take linguistic wrangling advice from someone who refers to themselves in the third person,thank you very much. Now,there’s nothing wrong per se with illeism. It doesnt necessarily imply a psycholigucal or self-reality disconnect or narcissism it just, sometimes to me, suggests a sljght strangeness of tone. Which is OK but it nevertheless leaves a certain impression when used in a dialogue.
5. We’re a broad church in this blog. There is no clique or strategic alliances. Long time posters disagree all the time. That’s healthy and is one of the reasons this is such a popular and vibrant blog.
6. Dont be so thin-skinned about swear words-or at least possibly pretend to be. We’re all grown ups. Some of the nastiest barbs in this blog never use swear words when a snarky supercilious tone is far more wounding.
Finally, apologies to all other posters for dragging this post O/T. I was called on a point of order and felt it worth replying.
Cheers.
~~
etc etc and so it continues. There was a name change half way through which has stayed the same since.
Quod erat demonstrandum and just for the record.
Fuckwit.
I know you are, Fred, but what am I ?
@ Habbabkuk
I can’t make my point any clearer. The behaviour of you and others is spoiling this blog.
Your reply is very clear too. You are going to continue that behaviour.
All I can therefore do is draw my own conclusions, ignore you, and hope you go away.
I beg of EVERYONE else to do the same.
“Fuckwit.
I know you are, Fred, but what am I ?”
Some retard from 4chan?
(before you all get your knickers in a twist that’s a term of endearment}
You for freedom of speech or against it?
Mary asks “Wonder what drew him (ie Habbabkuk) in (ie, to the Jimmy Savile thread) then (ie around November)”.
Could it be something as simple as having discovered Craig’s blog round about then?
Conspiract theorists – AT EASE !!
BTW – the “damning evidence” you present in quotation is about 20% Habbabkuk and 80% other people. Was that the best you were able to find? Not very convincing. (And note the early use of a four letter word when replying to Habbabkuk).
@ A Node – would you like to answer the three questions I put to you, please? Shying away from doing so doesn’t increase your credibility as an honest broker (which I had thought you were trying to be).
But in any case, understand this : I already once invited Mary to put some question or other about me to Craig himself, but of course she didn’t do so, at least as far as I can see. If and when Craig reproaches me, I shall give his words very serious consideration, because I have trust in his bona fides but little trust in yours. There, it needed saying bluntly!
I have just watched a 20 minute video of an MP making a speech to parliament, and by half way through, I had cheered him several times. At the end, I applauded my laptop. Of course, it wasn’t a British MP. He’s Belgian, explaining why he wouldn’t support a proposal to send Belgian troops into Mali. I can only dream that one day one of our spineless wonders will stand up and also tell it like it really is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkzXTgslFNE&feature=player_embedded#!
Click the subtitles button if you don’t speak French.
You won’t be disappointed.
Arbed, just read the letter to the full, slightly changed it and send it to my MP.
Should he understand the implications, without sending it to the FCO and asking for guidance, I’ll let you know.
Happy Burns night.
This from our southern fringes in Vienna. Normally they are not adverse to walking round in Lederhosen shorts and being as loud as the welsh, its the mountains, they have to, so it comes natural to wear a kilt, although there is a wee bit of ribbing involved me thinks, why else would you swing it in the fresh….
slantje
http://www.robertburns.at/photos.html
John Goss – good question – Gratuitous violence. We stop it by understanding exactly what the problem really is.
Part of the problem is easily witnessed here, just now, on Craig’s blog. We note the juggling who and what is right and who and what is wrong.
What is ‘right’ we can call ‘civilized behavior’ and ‘civilized’ can be understood as ‘advanced, ie showing evidence of moral and intellectual superiority, – ‘educated, ie intelligent enough to figure consequences,- ‘refined, ie learned from past experience and humane.
‘Humane’ I find difficult to define let alone judge. Humane is at the core of our existence and how we appraise mercy.
Some of us here and elsewhere can hear the screams for mercy – those shouts of pain – those weeping mothers, hollering fathers – those wailing children, their skin black and peeling from fire and heat, not in tens, not in hundreds, not even in thousands – tens of thousands. A cacophony of pain and despair.
Who did this crime. Who? – was it Iran or Syria or Palestine or Pakistan or Afghanistan?????
No, it was us, British – we did it, and we did it on a lie. Is that civilized?
Some retard from 4chan?
I know you are, Fred, but what am I ?