I am delighted that a new canpaign has started today against the state enforced child slavery in the uzbek cotton industry, especially as this campaign originates in Germany, where a significant portion of society appears to have finally woken up to the reality of the German government’s appalling complicity in the Nazi style regime and atrocities of Karimov.
However in the UK it remains the case that since the coalition government came to power, there has not been one single government statement on the human rights atrocities in Uzbekistan or – even more damning of our sham democracy – one single statement or question from New Labour.
@ Clark : whooops, sorry, I forgot to reply re. the autopsy reports!
The answer is that I honestly don’t know whether he did the right thing by publishing. Are autopsy reports generally available to the larger public? I don’t know that either. And I don’t know either how and by whom they got taken off his website – the Wikipedia article I translated for you all mentions the fact but gives no explanation of how and why. If anyone cared enough they could get in touch with the man and ask, I suppose.
As a general comment, however – not based on any particular insight – I suspect that so-called secret reports – and/or their alleged suppression – seem to be a staple ingredient of conspiracy theories.
Another critic of Israel forced to bow to British Zionists
David Ward MP (LibDem)
“I never for a moment intended to criticise or offend the Jewish people as a whole, either as a race or as a people of faith, and apologise sincerely for the unintended offence which my words caused.”
Guardian Online (27/01/12)
“Before turning to your first comment, let me deal with that rather jejeune post from Fred at 00h10. Of course liberty, equality and fraternity are wonderful things, but when used by politicians they are what Jamie Whyte in his book called “A load of Blair” would call “hooray words” – who could be against them? THey are also the motto of the French Republic – so presumably Fred, who approves of libert, equality and fraternity, would without hesitaation give the French Republic his seal of approval? I suspect not.”
So you think we should read through the list and if there’s anything we don’t like we use it to condemn him but to ignore the bits we do like because he’s a politician and they don’t tell the truth.
@ Fred : no, that wasn’t my thought at all. Look, don’t be a chump; if my point is unanswerable, just don’t answer it.
I often get the impression that some people – usually the same ones – simply don’t read comments properly before shooting off a reaction. But anyway, let let’s avoid arguments and stay with the substance, shall we.
@ Doug Scorgie
I can see how it fits your narrative to claim that the MP has prostrated himself before the forces of evil incarnate, but perhaps not so fast!
The above quotation has him expressing regret if he has caused offence to the Jewish people as a whole – he’s not apologising for causing offence to Zionists, nor to the State of Israel, nor even to Jews living in Israel.
And then I’m informed that he has not retracted his original words. And thirdly, he said that he will continue to be a vigorous critic of Israeli policies vis-à-vis the Israelis.
Again, as we say, close reading and intellectual honesty are required!!!!!
vis-à-vis the Palestinians, of course! Sorry!
Habbabkuk, 27 Jan, 9:17 am; here’s how it seems to me. There were various legal proceedings in Belgium. The possibility of a paedophile group of powerful people sparked enormous public interest, with around 3% of the population actually moved to participate in a demonstration.
The autopsy reports would have been vital evidence in those legal proceedings, and for a society to be free and fair, legal proceedings have to be public. So surely, those autopsy reports should have been published.
I know that it is possible to argue for the concealment of such documents on the grounds that the relatives could be caused further distress. However, that would lead to the further question of whether the documents should be concealed from the relatives themselves. If the documents are withheld from the relatives, the relatives cannot be assured that justice has been done. If the documents are disclosed to the relatives but not the public, an enormous burden is placed upon the relatives, negating the supposed benefits of concealment.
So I think that M. Louis did the right thing. That doesn’t imply that he did it for noble reasons. However, we have the testimony of the judge, Jean-Marc Connerotte:
You called M. Laurent Louis “a publicity-seeking hayseeed”:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/01/uzbek-cotton-slavery-campaign/comment-page-4/#comment-390637
but if Judge Connerotte is to be believed, M. Louis placed himself in danger by publishing those autopsies. That seems at least somewhat heroic to me.
“@ Fred : no, that wasn’t my thought at all. Look, don’t be a chump; if my point is unanswerable, just don’t answer it.
I often get the impression that some people – usually the same ones – simply don’t read comments properly before shooting off a reaction. But anyway, let let’s avoid arguments and stay with the substance, shall we.”
Don’t call me a chump shit for brains. You might think you can argue against what was said in a speech by attacking the person making it but don’t try it on with me.
I read your list and I think the man has some very good ideas there, particularly the first one. Getting idealistic dogma, ambition, megalomania and greed out of politics sounds like a good idea to me.
Clark, as an aside, since you have an understanding of these things, i have a tiny technical question. Every time i refresh the page to view a fresh comment, the page position returns to the top and one then has to drag and scroll all the way down. (except when one oneself has submitted a comment, in which case, the refresh settles the page aligned to that comment). Its a bit irritating. How might i resolve this, if i can? Is it something to do with my browser/settings or is it a technical issue in the way the website is structured?
Thank you, also for your contributions.
@village might be helpful to state which browser your on mate.
also thanks for your K links – you introduced him to me.
fyi i’m using latest chrome Version 24.0.1312.56 m and don’t have villagers problem
Exexpat i use an apple macbook pro and recently upgraded to the mountain lion OS, with Safari. I’m not tech-savvy–am i making sense?
And you’re very welcome re the K links–its my pleasure. I find him to be truly sane mirror to look into. At the risk of repetition or if you haven’t found it yourself, this is a good source:
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/video.php
Thanks again.
@ Clark : thank you! This is an interesting exchange. I was actually going to post a thought I had when I saw yours, so I now have the best of excuses :).
Firstly, I was going to say that I was interested by N-‘s comment at 08h39 that “It {ie, the autopsy} is perhaps not as powerful a bring-down-the-whole-tower-of-lies document as some have called it” and wondered whether M. Louis may not himself have taken it down from his website if he received similar comments from the public. Had he removed it under pressure, I imagine he would have made hay of this in some way or another. Anyway, I was going to say that if I can find the damn thing on this Cryptonome website I shall read it for myself and come back to validate or invalidate N_’s judgement.
Now to your post, starting with the easiest.
1/. When I referred to M. Louis as a publicity-seeking hayseed, I was thinking rather of his speech on Mali, the speech which has given rise to such frenzies of hero worship on this blog. Perhaps a little harsh on my part, but I have a certain aversion to politicians who can comfortably say what they want without there being the slightest risk of them being called to account for what they say anr of actually having to exercise power. Furthermore, I don’t think he’s running the slightest risk for having published the autopsies; so I’m not sure that courage really comes into it. It would be more courageous to leave the document on his site, thereby (1) defying authority (on the assumption that he was forced to take it down) or (2) allowing the text to be tested against the claims he was making.
2/. Next, a slight correction to your 1st paragraph, which could give the erroneous impression that the massively-attended “white march” was uniquely a protest against a possible cover-up. That certainly may been one element, but it was my impression that there were other, equally or more important elements, amoung which a feeling of disgust at these especially heinous murders and anger at what was correctly perceived as incompetence and bungling by the Belgian police and judicial authorities.
3/. The main point. BTW, this all took place some time ago, so I’m speaking from memory and must admit I haven’t dived into the raw material again. There was certainly the trial of Dutroux and consorts and there was also an in-depth investigation by a specially set up Parliamentary committee of inquiry (the proceedings were televised and widely praised). Now, I should have thought (but it’s true, I’m not certain) that the autopsies would have been available both at the Parliamentary investigation and at the trial – in fact, it’s inconceivable that they would not have been. I should also imagine that they were made available to the parents of Julie and Mélissa. But I don’t agree with you that they should necessarily have been made available to the wider public and am not convinced by the arguments you put forwward to support that position. For instance, justice must be seen to be done – this certainly applies to procedure, but does it necessarily imply that every piece of evidence should be made public? I’m not sure.
That’s it for the time being. I may come back to investigating magistrate Connerotte in due course.
***********
Word of advice to all the variously challenged ones : sit dowwn in a quiet room when reading this, and CONCENTRATE! No beer until afterwards, and REFLECT before you post. No coarse language either. Thank you!
“Word of advice to all the variously challenged ones : sit dowwn in a quiet room when reading this, and CONCENTRATE! No beer until afterwards, and REFLECT before you post. No coarse language either. Thank you!”
So you’re accusing me of being drunk now are you? Didn’t they try that one on Craig when they were doing a hatchet job on him?
If I use coarse language or not is entirely in your hands. So long as you stick to the issues and don’t go calling me names I don’t use coarse language. When I see you making personal attacks I assume you must like the coarse language so I oblige you.
Only slightly O/T
Today is Holocaust day and this year I will be only remembering the Armenian Holocaust.
The accession of Turkey, much prayed for here by some vested interest factions and forever sitting MP’s, should be closely linked to its humanitarian records, its ongoing bitterness with the Kurds who have lived for a very long time between countries, just as the Tuareg’s and Berber’s and their willingness to peace and reconciliation.
Further, Turkeys insipid connections between its police army and the criminal underworld has to be see for what it is, a powerful factor in society that has led to the Turkish dominance and control of Europe heroin production, markets and the human degradation to section of society in conjunction with the failed war on drugs and the existing legislative frameworks govern the use of drugs.
The Armenian’s have never got official recognition of the Holocaust carried out against them, they do not entice the building of dedicated shrines upholding the horror to reap constant guilt, all they do want is for Turkey, and the rest of Europe for that matter, to get real. The role of Churchill and Britain’s as well as that of German engineers in this much covered past is a substantially ignored blot in Turkeys history.
How can we forget the murder and massacring of Syrians in Aleppo, when we cannot acknowledge what happened there and all over Turkey in the past? The systematic genocide of a Christian people has been shelved, mentioned under the breath and disallowed to be remembered on Holocaust day. So there, I will remember it.
This excellent piece from Robert Fisk, written in 2007 is still excellent enough to educate those monkeys who cover their eyes and do not want to see.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-forgotten-holocaust-463306.html
This blog is known for its variety of news, O/T or not, it has dedicated threads and some do split into more than one topic, it reads like a newspaper without the lay out. It has got is recognition for talking about issues Craig raises which are not discussed in public as the MSM does not dare cover them, in favour of duffing their caps and that is why it has been called the third best political blog online.
It has attracted many posters from far and wide with interesting issue, long may it stay that way, and it has developed and pointed to facts surrounding Craig’s scoops and diverse insight and connections via core of dedicated thinkers and seekers.
We are not know it alls and we do not try and emulate the much spawned notions of political correctness, nor have we got any aspirational guile to copy the hum of an unaccountable minority of self interested and perverted boot lickers and back scratchers in a Parliament that suffered far too long from their poisonous emissions.
Guy Fawkes come back, all is forgiven.
What we do not do is try and tell Craig how to run his blog, control peoples diction and speech or fall into the traps of MSM homogeneity.
Its quiet funny to watch the threshing of arms and blubbering of minds from those desperate to shut the barn(internet) door, with no idea of holding a hammer or use a saw.
So instead they are reduced to creating malice amongst us, developing the fine discrepancies we have with each other views, in a desperate attempt to widen the latter, to split us up.
With that, enjoy the sunny day and refresh your Fisk.
Humanity being what it is, a fragile mind with an even more fragile body, living unsustainably on earth
Z-Day London 2013 – http://zdaylondon2013.eventbrite.co.uk/?ebtv=C&ebtv=C
Saturday, 16 March 2013 from 10:30 to 18:00 (GMT)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POkxC0oJWNo
Thanks for that Nevermind. This is the excellent Michael Parenti’s non-selective but inclusive view of man’s holocausts. A litany.
Holocaust And Extermination A Terrible Normality
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33728.htm
Villager, 27 Jan, 10:40 am: look at the rightmost end your browser’s address bar, select and delete the hash mark and everything to the right of it:
…#comment-390736
After that, when you refresh the page, you should be returned to where you were. However, submitting a comment will result in a new hash mark etc., so you’ll need to repeat the process.
The Serb won and the Scot lost. They went off with their massive cheques and trophies, wearing and displaying all the gear that their sponsors manufacture and the logos too.
Corporate spectator sport 21st century style.
http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/event_guide/sponsors.html
@ Fred – no, absolutely not accusing you of being drunk, just suggesting you remain sober until you’re read my post (and possibly replied).
I’m not sure whether you took my advice?
Have a happy Sunday afternoon!
re. Mary on the “Serb and the Scot” :
Is it not possible, despite the corporate logos and so on, to appreciate the power, grace and sheer artistry of a good tennis (or football, or cricket) match?
Why throw a little bucket of s**t over eveything?
Tenpting suggestion!
“no, absolutely not accusing you of being drunk, just suggesting you remain sober until you’re read my post (and possibly replied).
I’m not sure whether you took my advice?”
None of your business Sunshine, nothing I do is any of your business.
Stick to the issues, truth is truth as who says it.
@ Fred : by the way, I forgot to thank you for not using coarse language in your reply. Much appreciated, and I’m confident that, now you’ve seen it’s not necessary to be coarse when putting forward your point of view, you’ll continue in this promising vein.
Mary, that reply was funny and I liked it :).
“Why throw a little bucket of s**t over eveything?”
What does “s**t” mean?
“by the way, I forgot to thank you for not using coarse language in your reply. Much appreciated, and I’m confident that, now you’ve seen it’s not necessary to be coarse when putting forward your point of view, you’ll continue in this promising vein.”
I’ve known all along it’s not necessary to use coarse language.
When you realise it isn’t necessary to use ad hominem arguments I won’t be telling you to go fuck yourself any more.
number of comments on this page = 146
number of occurrences of name “Habbabkuk” = 51
number of un-named references to Habbabkuk = many more
“number of comments on this page = 146
number of occurrences of name “Habbabkuk” = 51
number of un-named references to Habbabkuk = many more”
That’s a few more.
Don’t worry about it.
What do you think of the idea of randomly selecting politicians then?
I long ago realised that our political system has a fundamental flaw, it favours the psychopath. The man who can tell blatant lies without thinking about it, stab his friends in the back without remorse, the man who can’t feel love so he lusts after power is the man most likely to succeed.
I don’t want people who can murder half a million Iraqi children and still sleep at night running my country. I don’t care how bad the randomly selected politicians are they can’t be any worse than that because that’s about as bad as it gets.
yes, but look at the other pages as and you’ll get a better overview of frequency.
Intellectual honesty again!!