I am delighted that a new canpaign has started today against the state enforced child slavery in the uzbek cotton industry, especially as this campaign originates in Germany, where a significant portion of society appears to have finally woken up to the reality of the German government’s appalling complicity in the Nazi style regime and atrocities of Karimov.
However in the UK it remains the case that since the coalition government came to power, there has not been one single government statement on the human rights atrocities in Uzbekistan or – even more damning of our sham democracy – one single statement or question from New Labour.
@ Nevermind : I think that in your haste to post you got your Vietnamese reference mixed up. Dien Bien Phu was where French foreign legionaires and south Vietnamese regulars got massacred (if you insist on using that word).
Anyone who equates the (horrible and tragic) situation of the Palestians to the Jewish holocaust is a fool.
It’s counterproductive to come out with nonsense like that, David. Sensible people, when they hear it, immediately discount anything else that’s being said by the same source on the Palestinian question.
PS – yes, I know, you’re going to reply that it wasn’t David talking, it was the former Shin Bet boss. But you’re presumably referencing him as a favorable witness.
Just in case anyone’s interested, here’s a count of this long thread:
—–
Apple 20:11:04 # ./auth-count CM-doc
Start count on CM-doc
131 Mary
114 Habbabkuk
85 Fred
63 nevermind
55 Villager
44 Mark Golding – Children of Conflict
27 John Goss
26 Macky
25 David
25 Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)
24 Uzbek in the UK
23 A Node
19 N_
19 Cryptonym
19 Clark
18 Arbed
16 thatcrab
15 glenn_uk
9 Lemon Puffs
9 Giles
8 Phil W
7 guano
6 doug scorgie
5 Kempe
5 Karel
5 Jives
5 Exexpat
5 English Knight
4 martin
4 BrianFujisan
4 Anon
3 wikispooks
2 mark golding
2 karel
2 jenny
2 anonymous
2 Noid
2 MJ
2 Jon
2 Jemand
2 Dreoilin
2 Dave Lawton
2 Courtenay Barnett
1 nextus
1 mike
1 me in us
1 john lapton
1 exexpat
1 cotton fool
1 andy
1 Vronsky
1 Runner77
1 Rose
1 Non
1 KingofWelshNoir
1 Jonangus Mackay
1 Jazzer
1 Jay
1 IrishmanAbroad
1 Ian Marsman
1 GyBf56d
1 GAIA HEPBURN (MRS)
1 DtP
1 DoNNyDarKo
1 Bryan Hemming
1 Blegburnduddoo
Apple 20:11:05 #
A revealing interview David, honest, almost a reparation for wrong and I guess part of a small light at the end of a very long tunnel.
Director Dror Moreh convinces us with his film ‘gatekeepers’ that Israel is on the wrong path. A path that can only lead to acrimony, antipathy, venom and decay.
http://movieline.com/2012/09/09/the-gatekeepers-director-dror-moreh-peace-is-possible-in-the-mid-east-but-israel-lacks-leadership/
Habby
It’s precisely because it’s said by one so familiar with both that neophytes like yourself should listen all the more.
And make sure and listen to the other interviewees too. They’re all Shin Bet, with a wealth of experience and knowledge that a propaganda immersed nobbin like you can only dream at.
http://mondoweiss.net/2013/01/occupation-interview-gatekeepers.html
Alternatively you could listen to any of the many other younger voices now emanating from Israel itself.
On your holocaust trick:
I’ve detailed the Rabbi’s errors, hypocrisy and humbug above and they ain’t anything to do with the holocaust.
They’re about his falacious notion of “normal war”, his hypocrisy in not mentioning the plight of the Palestinians as a people suffering and his humbug and platitudes without any direction of those words where he has some clout, namely Israel. On the contrary his only words about Israel are support.
So again, don’t try your cheap tricks here.
Chalk another one up for me Glenn UK! At least most of mine are informative and intended to be genuine contributions.
I thought we had had enough of royal celebrations, one way or another, inflicted on us last year. It turns out that we will be celebrating the coronation on 11 – 14 July. This time, instead of the costs being hidden, people will be charged to enter Buckingham Palace for £30 each. The evening galas @ £90 are sold out already so someone’s got money to spend!
http://coronation.seetickets.com/event/coronation-festival-at-buckingham-palace/buckingham-palace/675246
At first, I wondered if this highly commercial website was a spoof. Apparently not.
https://www.coronationfestival.com/
Ooops, caught out by HAL. Thank you for that Glenn_uk
Oh well, i tried earlier today (http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/01/uzbek-cotton-slavery-campaign/comment-page-5/#comment-390886) to engage in a very civil way with Habbabkuk re his sensibilities towards others, to no avail. The same superintendent approach continues leading one to question whether its not some kind of compulsive obsessive disorder.
I think i shall go the way of N_, Macky, A Node and others and switch this very boring nonsense off. Others can end it too when they realise that intellectual sparring and intelligent dialogue are two very different things. Indeed intelligence and intellect are two very different things.
I shall end with a borrowed story:
“Let me refer here to a Royal Air Force practice during World War II. It was the custom in Bomber Command to spend a short time ‘training’ new pilots joining an operational squadron from O.T.U. (Operational Training Units). The final test after a week of varied flying exercises was to check the new man’s response to an emergency-landing situation. Consequently, a squadron pilot took over the place of the flight engineer, and so would be sitting alongside the ‘trainee’. On the approach, usually at around 2,500 feet, the squadron pilot would cut one engine and wait for the new pilot to respond. The accepted ‘drill’ here—for the pilot—was as follows: Press the fire extinguisher button for the ‘dead’ engine; ‘Feather’ its propeller; Re-trim the aircraft by raising ailerons (wing airfoils) and elevators (tail airfoils) to diminish drag and help bring the nose of the aircraft up; increase power output on the remaining three engines to prevent a stall. Now, airborne posture of the aircraft regularised, the new pilot must decide whether to ‘go round again’ and configure the aircraft for a new approach or, having corrected the airworthiness of the aircraft, judge whether to continue the present course and land.
Such are the Facts pertaining to the situation.
However, on the occasion to which I am referring, the ‘trainee’ pilot—who, as a civilian, was said to be the youngest university lecturer in the educational field—turned to the squadron pilot and said, somewhat flustered, “Have you got the Handbook…?”
Dang Glenn, I didn’t know it was a competition. : )
Wise decision Villager. Many want to give a Steve Howe kind of 2nd chance, but we know how that works out.
“A hard-throwing left-hander, Howe’s career was plagued by alcohol and cocaine abuse;[1] he first checked himself into a substance abuse clinic in 1983, but a relapse resulted in him being suspended for the entire 1984 season. Over the course of his 17-year career, Howe would be suspended seven times.”
WIKI
David – the only holocaust trick being played here is the one which claims that the fate of the Palestinians under Israel is comparable to that of the Jews under the Nazis.
Mary, you could add “and usually contain cheap sneers” .
PS – could however did the count of who posted how many times do the same for another couple of recent long/longish threads? Just in the interests of objectivity, of course!
PPS – I’ve already explained at least three times that I neither expect nor indeed wish for anyone to respond to any admonishments I hand out; I’d be delighted if people just took their six of the best like men (or like a woman in my friend Mary’s case).
‘Night all!
Ben,
Yes and Asia guitarist Steve Howe played baseball? No idea how he found the time although the drug use probably crossed careers 🙂
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Howe_%28guitarist%29
The Suppression of Artistic freedom !
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2013/jan/28/sunday-times-antisemitism-israeli-election-cartoon
“the only holocaust trick being played here is the one which claims that the fate of the Palestinians under Israel is comparable to that of the Jews under the Nazis.”
Yes, it is worse, it is the effect of the the intensity of the persecution, multiplied by the duration, in the Palestinian’s case it has been 65 years. The dead no longer suffer.
Sad you don’t see it that way, you’re in a shrinking minority.
1.8 GIGApixels? Holy Shite. This must be the transparency Obama promised…
http://chrisinmaryville.net/1-8-gigapixel-argus-is-worlds-highest-resolution-video-surviellience-platform-by-darpa.html
“David – the only holocaust trick being played here is the one which claims that the fate of the Palestinians under Israel is comparable to that of the Jews under the Nazis.”
http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2010/12/26/hashoah-vs-al-nakba/
“He received his first guitar, an f-hole acoustic,”
F-hole? Sex, drugs, rock n roll and baseball makes a nasty combo, Anon.
@ Cryptonym – so that’s more than 5 million Palestinians gassed, shot or otherwise done to death, is it?
Habby
When you’re done with your holocaust distraction tricks you can apologise to Mary for your deriding her accurate assessment of Chief Rabbi’s hypocrisy and humbug.
I’ll be reminding you until you do.
She’s at it again, the old pisse-vinaigre (excuse the slight vulgarity, but it’s really the only word which does justice).
“I thought we had had enough of royal celebrations…inflicted on us last year”
Errrr, not actually, I and lots of other people quite enjoyed them and are looking forward to many more.
“This time, instead of the costs being hidden, people will be charged to enter…”
I should have thought you’d approve of the idea that those who want to go should pay rather than have everything paid from general taxtion, ie, by all of us. Bit like going to the theatre or cinema, really, isn’t it?
“The evening galas @£90 are sold out already so someone’s got money to spend!”
Even though the old £’s no longer what it used to be, I’m rather reassured that people do still have the odd £90 to spend as they please. A phenomenon to be welcomed, surely?
David, do please remind away, and if you remind enough you too can get to the top of the posting league table as kindly drawn up by Glenn (I’ll even let you count half of my posts as yours if that would help?)
@Habbabkuk: You asked for the same sort of breakdown of comments on other longish threads. Here’s a selection:
==============================================start
Baghdad Conference Photos:
96 Mary
48 Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)
28 Fred
26 Clark
20 mark golding
17 Habbabkuk
15 nevermind
15 Anon
13 Kempe
10 macky
9 thatcrab
8 John Goss
8 Jives
7 Jay
6 doug scorgie
5 norse
5 Yonatan
5 MJ
5 English Knight
4 glenn_uk
4 Vronsky
4 Jonangus Mackay
4 Arbed
4 A Node
———————
Swing to Mahama Across Nation:
50 Mary
49 Dreoilin
27 Uzbek in the UK
21 thatcrab
16 Habbabkuk
14 Herbie
14 Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)
10 Duncan McFarlane
10 Cryptonym
8 Phil
8 Clark
7 nevermind
7 John Goss
7 Fred
6 Arbed
4 guano
4 doug scorgie
4 craig
——————–
Palestine:
47 Oniel Samuel
36 Herbie
33 Mary
30 Fred
28 Komodo
28 Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)
24 Cryptonym
13 Jon
12 Habbabkuk
12 Clark
11 macky
11 Phil
11 Ferret
10 nevermind
10 Kempe
10 Anon
9 lwtc247
8 craig
——————-
BBC Vomit:
94 Mary
64 Komodo
50 Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)
36 Herbie
28 nevermind
21 Anon
20 Habbabkuk
19 Phil
18 N_
16 Mark Golding – Children of Conflict
16 Dreoilin
16 A Node
14 Vronsky
13 John Goss
13 Jay
11 oddie
11 mike
9 guano
==============================================end
No one has a monopoly on Holocaust`s Israel needs to wake up and smell the coffee.Since the advent of
the internet more people are becoming aware of history.
http://www.twf.org/News/Y1998/19981213-UkraineHolocaust.html
To check your file on the Police National Database will normally cost you 10 quid.
It is called ‘subject access request, and you can write to or ask
your Central/Main plod station for a copy of your personal file held on the PND quoting your right under the Data Protection Act.
You should/will receive the response, “Which police force arrested you?” To which you politely respond, “I have not been arrested I am checking for erroneous entries.”
You will receive this response or similar, “If you have not been arrested you will have no record.” -Of course you would persist.
Exemptions:
You will not get your personal record with or without redaction if the file contains information linking to another person or information that relates to ongoing crime or tax fraud. Also exemption applies in relation to:
* national security and the armed forces;
* personal data, such as criminal checks processed for the purposes of making judicial, Crown, or Ministerial appointments or for conferring honours or intelligence checks by a government approved agency and more.
Not an easy way to spend a tenner!
“so that’s more than 5 million Palestinians gassed, shot or otherwise done to death, is it?”
In Palestine, the infant mortality rate is seven times higher than that of Israel. In fact, 30% of Palestinian children die before the age of five.
http://childrensrightsportal.org/palestine/
Glenn; Nice to see I can be a thread-hog, but my averages leave me too thin for the slaughterhouse.
Huzzaaaahhhh…
@Mark Golding: “To check your file on the Police National Database will normally cost you 10 quid.”
A friend emigrated to Aus a few years back, and needed this information from the police for his visa. It duly came back, and said he’d been convicted of numerous petty crimes – receiving stolen goods, burglary, car-theft and so on, all centered around some town up north, Grimsby or somesuch.
He contacted them at once – he’d never been convicted or charged with anything! He’d never even been in the vicinity of these alleged offences! He’d never heard of these supposed accomplices, never been arrested, and certainly had not failed to pay child support to children he’d never heard of, to mothers he didn’t know existed!
The answer came back in due course. “Oh, so you didn’t do these crimes then? Fair enough – we’ll get them erased.” And that was that – they erased them, and provided proof that he did indeed now have a clean rap-sheet.
It might well be worth everyone spending ten quid to examine their record. Not sure what’s the more worrying, that all this crap can end up on your record for no reason, or that they’ll wipe it clean on the say-so of the alleged offender.
One more:
================================================start
CIA Plot Against Correa Funded by Drug Money
1,271 Comments
154 Mary
143 Komodo
126 Ben Franklin (head honcho CIA Office for Craig Murray Operations)
93 Dreoilin
74 Anon
51 technicolour
43 nevermind
42 clark
30 N_
28 Herbie
26 Habbabkuk
24 A Node
23 John Goss
21 Mark Golding – Children of Conflict
17 Phil
16 thatcrab
16 Hang ’em High
15 guest
15 Suhayl Saadi
15 Chris Jones
13 doug scorgie
13 Michal
12 Cryptonym
12 Courtenay Barnett
12 Clark
11 craig
11 attila
11 Jives
10 mike
9 Villager
9 Jay
8 oddie
8 Kempe
7 rich
7 karel
7 Jon
5 giles
5 Vronsky
5 Mochyn69
5 English Knight
5 CheebaCow
5 Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (unleaded version)
[…]
===================================================end
Ben Franklin – if you’d kept the same name, you still would have been in third place, so no reason to regret it.
Komodo is doubtless currently hibernating, finally resting after his thwarted efforts to gain first place. He’ll never manage it in the heart of Winter. The warm-blooded Mary is up hours before a weak Sun allows Komodo to struggle into action.
Keep it up folks.
We are the noble ones, we have the simple understanding that all things are not quite as they should be.
We may have not found satisfaction, what we have is a realisation.
We are not the great ones, those have mostly come and gone.
We do not trivialise, if there are issues to be argued by some hear on how we operate, I suggest you write in to the BBC and add account for there realisation.
Common sense is not a destructive gene.
+ another one. I see we are in the entries number game big time now and not so subtly creating division. Very clever gadget in use there. I only know control + f to collect the total counts which on the previous page give me 46 and Hab 61 so who’s counting.
Glenn probably perceives Hab as a welcome arrival here having been engaged in friendly discussions recently.
Q How can we be sure that there is no doubling up of user names? 😉
~~~~
Professor Andrew Williams, a law professor and the author of A Very British Killing: The Death of Baha Mousa was in discussion on Radio 5 this morning speaking of the atrocities that our troops committed in Iraq and which are the subject of an action in the High Court today. He said we should all feel shame for what happened. The malpractices were systemic. The troops are trained to kill and there was insufficient training beforehand and lack of control after the invasion and occupation to prevent the torture and abuse of prisoners taking place. He said that there were over 800 further cases which had not yet seen the light of day and that nobody had been punished apart from the doctor involved in the Baha Mousa coverup being struck off and Cpl Payne who was jailed for a year and dismissed the service.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/19/britain-guilty-systemic-torture-iraq
Yet the real criminal is still free and struts the planet accruing personal wealth.
His successors Cameron and Hague are sending ‘trainers’ to train the Mali army and other African armies I read. Oh yes? We know what mission creep is.
Mission to Mali: UK to send 200 troops to Africa just days after 5,300 are axed
29 Jan 2013
The deployment marks a major ramping up of UK efforts against the Islamist groups behind the Algeria hostage massacre and Mali rebellion.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-to-send-200-troops-to-mali-1561035
Is it mission creep or has it all been planned earlier?
The Daily Telegraph 14/01/13:
“The Government insisted that British support for the French intervention would be limited to “logistical” backing, including the transport planes. Ministers ruled out sending troops to take part in combat operations alongside the French.”
The Sun today:
“No 10 insisted the UK forces would NOT be sent into actual combat — but would defend themselves if attacked. More than 400 troops could be involved in total with the logistics HQ in Mali and the training missions across the region. A small infantry detachment may also be included to guard them.” [between 100-250 troops].