A particularly sickening trick from the BBC a few weeks back raised my blood pressure whilst in hospital and almost finished me off. A French Euro MP was asked for “the French view” on Scottish independence. She said that France would oppose it and the French government takes the view that an independent Scotland would be outside the European Union. I was absolutely astonished that the BBC had managed to find the only French person in the entire world who is against Scottish independence, and that she was telling an outright lie about the position of the French government.
Then I realised who she was – the former research assistant (and rather more) of New Labour minister and criminal invoice forger Denis Macshane. She worked for years in the UK parliament for New Labour, in a Monica Lewinsky kind of way. All of which the BBC hid, presenting her simply as a French Euro MP. There are seventy million French people. How remarkable that the one the BBC chose to give the French view of Scottish independence was a New Labour hack!
Today the news came out that Scotland contributes a net £3.6 billion a year to the UK government finances. Scotland’s fiscal deficit is an extremely respectable 2.6%, compared to 6% for the UK as a whole, or 6.3% for the rest of the UK excluding Scotland.
But even that is not the full story. These figures are based on a geographical allocation of oil revenue – but that geographical allocation is based on New Labour’s incredible gerrymandered 1999 England/Scotland maritime border which gives eight major Scottish oil fields to England, including two North of Dundee.
On a realistic maritime boundary, which an independent Scotland would undoubtedly win from the International Court of Justice, Scotland would actually have a budget surplus of £1.9 billion. Hurray, boys and girls, we are in the black! Remember I was Head of the FCO Maritime Section and I personally was involved in negotiating most of the UK’s maritime boundaries, including with Ireland, France, Denmark and Belgium.)
I know it is hard to believe, but that really is the England/Scotland maritime boundary which the revenue figures in the GERS report are based on. That is why England’s oil revenues are surprisingly high in the report – and Scotland’s surprising low.
But even on that boundary, the GERS report shows beyond any argument that Scotland’s public finances would be much better outside the Union.
Yet this morning the BBC choose to present the report as showing that because Scotland has a fiscal deficit, an independent Scotland would not be viable. Despite the fact that deficit percentage is less than half that of England. Despite the fact that every country in the Western world has a budget deficit.
The BBC have simply become addicted to the Big Lie when it comes to Scottish Independence. Talking of big lies – now they are even wheeling out Blair!
@ce
“I fear you misguided here.”
I sincerely hope you’re right. I’m simply describing the standard British process for dealing with these matters. The only important difference I can see between Scotland and Ireland is that the Scots have no (recent) history of violence in pursuit of independence, and that must make its introduction more problematic for Westminster. On the other hand, Scotland is vastly more valuable than NI from many points of view. I believe that military preparations were made back in the 70s when it was feared that independence would appear then, but I can no longer find links to that information.
Nevermind, great artistry as well as sound thinking. Apols for being O/T.
I gave up believing the BBC news reports many years ago. I saw a government minister being interviewed on reports that riot police had beaten up the boat people. He categorically denied it had happened. I turned to Sky news and there they were hammering hell out of unarmed men and women.
I’ve got news for you Douglas@11:09am, the BBC aren’t truthful, and neither are Sky.
Craig Evans @9:20am : Newsnetscotland censors comments heavily, seemingly arbitrarily, either from fear of litigation or plain old nasty west of scotland prejudice and numpty tribalism of those doing the moderating, it’s the pro-independence wing of noo-Labour drop-outs who hope to rise again after independence, still mired in divisive old divide and rule or religious discrimination/partiality and with a whiff of homophobia. Wings over Scotland has pompous contributors, it’s basically pro-independence with a gaggle of blue rinsed Tory ladies and spiv/yuppie elements, whose international perspective is still stuck in a half-century old ‘plucky little Israel’ and benevolent USA reality warp.
Try bellacaledonia if you want slices of insightful, witty and powerful writing.
Jemand TLH – your argument against independence seems to be that the English are cunts, so suck up Westminster’s policies or risk war. Afraid I’m not convinced.
I am REALLY interested in seeing an accurate map of the 1999 maritime boundary, as opposed to the sketch done by Craig.
The reason is, the sketch kinda resembles the ‘equidistance’ line that would allocate sea to whichever country was nearest. That line seems fair to me. The previous line was a straight latitude line heading east from where the border hits the sea, which to any objective person obviously gave an unfair extra share to Scotland.
So where can we see the actual 1999 maritime boundary!? It must be available for viewing somewhere!
Wait. Ahah. Coordinates are given here:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1126/made/data.pdf
Craig
“You ask what you are missing. The answer is baselines.”
But they would only affect the first part of the line wouldn’t they? You soon get to a point where the nearest point in England is Farne Island and the nearest point in Scotland is Buchan Ness. The vast bulk of the line is in the right place isn’t it? You are only disputing the details near land?
You do accept that the 1967 statute is still in place so any claims that that boundary has been moved are false?
Check page 9 of that document – you can see it shows that the new boundary is the equidistance line.
In other words, the change allocates the North Sea that’s nearest to England to England, and the North Sea that’s nearest to Scotland to Scotland. Doesn’t sound that unfair ;).
Naebd, don’t be surprised if there aren’t attempts to move the eastern end of the Scotland-England land border some 30 miles or so northwards then redraw the maritime boundaries again after that partition plan becomes an accomplished fact on the ground. There is serious skulduggery at work, as the Southern Borders becomes more and more detached in communications, infrastructure, economically and socially from the rest of Scotland and entangled with Newcastle/Northumberland. That region of the Borders doesn’t even get Scottish/STV television to weakly counter New Labour’s captive BBC Scotland, to add to the insult of paying for the BBC dross and propaganda, their ‘local’ news covers largely Durham and Isle of Man affairs.
@ Keith B (05h03)
That was interesting, thank you. You mention three ways – dissolution, separation and continuation and secession. Do you know which of the these ways the SNP and Yes people are in favour of (presumably not continuation and secession since you say this is the Westminster preference, but which of the first two?)
“Wait. Ahah. Coordinates are given here:”
Yes, I posted a link to the map at the end earlier. That is the map I downloaded an printed off. The line is equidistant from the nearest point in England and the nearest point in Scotland. Anyone who doesn’t believe me can check it for themselves.
It’s looking to me like the claims of theft of Scottish territory by Westminster are just more Nationalist propaganda and scaremongering.
@ Jemand (07h25) :
“As a distant outsider whose opinion is of little importance, unsolicited, unwelcome and of zero consequence, I’d like to impose it on you anyway.”
I liked that. 🙂 You have style! (But the Eminences will never admit you to their Egregiousness if you continue to show such levity…life is a grim business, you know!)
“What will ordinary Scots actually enjoy as a result of independence? Enduring pride? Enduring self-esteem? A sense of identity that is currently absent? A government free of corruption and incompetence? A cultural renaissance? Social justice? A never-ending stream of revenues from fossil fuels? Economic boom times?”
And I also think that your post makes a large number of very valid and sensible points. Congratulations!
*****
A nice addition to your handle, by the way, which has the virtue of not appearing as self-advertising (I will refrain from mentioning another, opposite example…)
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La vita è bella, life is good! (May the good Lord heal Mary)
Karel posted this at O8h01 :
“Halibabacus,
your irrational struggle against conspiracy theories rather annoys me. What would our life be worth without a delightful conspiracy a day? Not much, I guess. It may surprise you that you can easily participate in one conspiracy or another without having noticed anything. Simple chaps like you are easily fooled. This reminds me of a friend who may have a little errand for you to do that can earn you few shekels. It is very simple, even you can manage. All you have to do is to deliver a box containing four of the most delicious pizzas to an address in the West End. The box will be handed over to you in a pub called the “Gay Grenadier”. The address of the pub together with othe info. will be sent to you as a telegramme from Tel Aviv. I propose this rather cumbersome way as you admitted that you are already used to this sort of communication. I do not know yet where you live but if you have to travel from afar do not bother to buy a return ticket. You will not need it.”
WOW ! To adapt slightly a famous quotation from Mark Twain, a humourous piece by Karel is no laughing matter! 🙂
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La vita è bella, life is good! (and a laugh)
@ Mary (07h46) :
Nice to see you joining in the dishing out of irrelevant dirt on Chris Huhne, Mary, nothing like kicking a person you’ve taken against when they’re down, is there, eh what? Not very Saintly, for sure. Perhaps you should form a team with Vicky – and change your handle to “Mary – For Slime and Sly Suggestion” ?
By the way, you aren’t accusing Chris Huhne of having made his money in any way illegally, are you?
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La vita è bella, life is good! (fight slime and innuendo)
Craig, the Argyll oilfield is nearer to the English coast, no matter how broad a baseline you draw. A baseline from Arbroath to Dunbar will have no effect on the boundary at the distance that the oilfields are from the coast. And the point 56° 36′ 31’N 02° 36′ 26’E, which as you rightly say is north of Dundee, is equidistant from England and Scotland.
One of those drain company power flushing vans was parked outside the Brighton hotel where Cleggover staged his arrival just now. Most unfortunate.
Farron the party chairman, in an interview with The House Magazine, ‘likened the party to a “cockroach” for its ability to survive but said this should not be taken for granted.
He said “99%” of people “don’t care” about the sexual harassment claims against Lib Dem peer Lord Rennard.
But he said the Lib Dems “certainly appear to have let people down” over the handling of the allegations, which Lord Rennard denies.
Senior figures in the party are also facing questions about when they knew of allegations that Pryce had taken speeding points on her husband’s behalf.’
He has also referred to LD members as ‘nutters’. Spot on there.
Lib Dems gather for spring conference amid controversy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21710803
@Craig P
Well, the ‘English cunt’ is certainly a factor that shouldn’t be ignored. What I ought to ask everyone who supports Scottish independence here is – do you also support calls for Welsh and Cornish independence? And if you do, at what point do you withhold your support for independence from people who call for it? When the landmass or population is too small? When the people belong to a religious order who want their own homeland but do not reside in a properly defined geographic landmass?
I want to put a call out to all British Muslims.
Many of you feel like you don’t belong. Your religion, culture, lifestyle and expectations of the future are much more divergent from the ‘average’ Brit than that experienced by Scottish folk. You have a distinct identity, like Scots, and you have rights that are no less important. If Scottish people have a right to call for independence, then so do you. Everyone does. We can debate the merits but no one has the right to silence your call for an open discussion.
Your population in England and Wales is nearly 3 million people which is more than that of Singapore’s when it declared independence from Britain in ’63. Your population is growing at an impressive rate and will very soon surpass that of Singapore’s five million. Singapore has been a raging success and there is no reason why you cannot achieve the same if given the right opportunity. In the UK, you have vocal supporters of independence movements not just here on Craig’s blog, but in many corners of British society. The common theme in independence movements is that of democracy – self representation for those who seek it. Do you seek it?
The island of Anglesey, NorthWest coast of Wales, is about the same size as Singapore and could easily accomodate an equivalent population if managed with the same zeal. What say all of you who support independence for Scotland? Independence for British Muslims in the Islamic state of Anglesey? No fair-minded person could refuse such a request. Indeed, there are many wealthy Arabs who could purchase the land of Anglesy a thousands of times over and I reckon they’d be receptive to a business proposition where everyone comes out a winner. Let’s move this idea forward.
British Muslims inspiring a new generation.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3500/islam-growing-religion-britain
Singapore, success story, 5 million people in 710Km^2.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore
The new Singapore?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglesey
What I ought to ask everyone who supports Scottish independence here is – do you also support calls for Welsh and Cornish independence? And if you do, at what point do you withhold your support for independence from people who call for it?…
I’d guess that a good proportion of English people living outside London would sympathise with the idea of cultural and even economic independence from London. Perhaps the answer is to turn London into a state (financed , as at present, from money laundering and derivatives – a worthy competitor to an even smaller independent state, Lichtenstein.) I’d support that, for sure. I know that many are increasingly embracing the idea of independence from Europe. Personally, I would like to be independent of America.
The bottom line is that if the Scots want it, and can do it, they should have it. Isn’t that what freedom and democracy are all about? Or have I missed some subtle shade of meaning to those words?
“The bottom line is that if the Scots want it, and can do it, they should have it. Isn’t that what freedom and democracy are all about? Or have I missed some subtle shade of meaning to those words?”
Then hold a referendum, hold it next week not at some time to coincide with the anniversary of some battle. Just have two words on the ballot paper, “Independence” and “Union”. Don’t alter the voting age to include those considered too young to vote in a normal election.
I’m all for democracy let it rip.
@Komodo
“The bottom line is that if the Scots want it, and can do it, they should have it. Isn’t that what freedom and democracy are all about? Or have I missed some subtle shade of meaning to those words?”
. . .
Yes, that’s the idea. There’s no subtle shade. It’s quite clear. But I don’t think this is about freedom and democracy. It’s about power and control and the marketing of political dynamics. Ask what’s in it for the average Scot. What does he and she really want and expect? Is it the same thing? Do I, as a voting citizen of an independent Australia, have more say in the running of my country than Angus MacAdder? From where I sit, I’d say no. Our resources are being plundered by multinational corporations whose shareholders repatriate their dividends off-shore to Swiss bank accounts, villas in the South of France and ivory backscratchers made from the tusks of slaughtered African elephants. The solution to the problems experienced by Scotland is not to recreate the corrupt processes at a local level but to transform those processes to be more accountable and equitable. How do we do that? I have no idea.
There’s a lot of silliness about. If the UK wasn’t run so badly from Westminster, so undemocratically with so much corruption, so keen to be a “world power” with nuclear weapons and so eager for wars against foreign countries, there wouldn’t be so many Scots who wanted independence.
Scots, the Welsh, the Cornish and the Irish aren’t the problem. Westminster, and its collusion with the City, the financial sector, the US and Israel are the problem.
Fred posted at 16h33 :
“Don’t alter the voting age to include those considered too young to vote in a normal election”
I understand that 16 year olds are to be allowed to vote in the referendum. Does anyone happen to know SNP policy on what should be the voting age in normal elections (whether local or national)? Is it also 16?
Clark (THe Mad Clerk) posts at 17h10 :
“Scots, the Welsh, the Cornish and the Irish aren’t the problem. Westminster, and its collusion with the City, the financial sector, the US and Israel are the problem.”
Yes siree, it’s the Jews again! Must every single phenomenon of which you disapprove be linked to Israel, or the Zionists, or the Jews ????????
I really wish the moderators or Craig himself would start taking a tougher position against the hate-mongers, because it’s getting to look pretty sick.
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La vita è bella, life is good! (Habbabkuk Against Hate Mongers Posing As
Seekers Of Truth And Freedom)
“There’s a lot of silliness about. If the UK wasn’t run so badly from Westminster, so undemocratically with so much corruption, so keen to be a “world power” with nuclear weapons and so eager for wars against foreign countries, there wouldn’t be so many Scots who wanted independence.”
What makes you think there were more people opposing the Iraq war in Scotland than England? I have found by far the majority around where I live were pro war and are pro Israel. Hell I keep getting banned from local forums for criticising the invasion of Iraq and highlighting the Palestinian cause.
I would say that would be motive for the very few, if the Nationalists win it will be down to tribalist instincts and greed.
@ Habbabkuk (13:29)
I must have over-edited that bit out, apologies. I think dissolution is a non-starter as it needlessly causes pain not just to the UK but all other nations we interact with. The Yes campaign appears to be arguing for separation (though not liking the word itself) as it disadvantages both nations the least. The Yes campaign argues that negotiation would be needed on the terms of membership of various organisations, but these would be carried out as existing members.
The House of Commons Scottish Affairs Committee has reported on “The Referendum on Separation for Scotland” . One would think/hope they would know what the word means. 🙂
Ed Miller Band – he’s an irrelevance and he knows it.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100206135/ed-milibands-zionism-lasted-less-than-24-hours-but-hes-made-it-clear-he-is-a-friend-of-israel-and-thats-enough/
Down at the British Board of Deputies at the premises of the Royal College of Surgeons.
Miliband event delights Jewish audience
by Vivian Wineman posted in Community
http://www.bod.org.uk/live/content.php?Item_ID=130&Blog_ID=789
The Board was delighted to host a packed evening with Ed Miliband last night with our media partners the Jewish News. A total of 300 people from across the Jewish community attended a 90 minute event at the Royal College of Surgeons, which included a moving speech about Ed’s family history and his vision for the United Kingdom should he become Prime Minister in 2015.
The Board’s President Vivian Wineman said: “After speaking movingly of his family’s experiences in the Holocaust and Israel he answered a range of questions demonstrating support for Israel, Zionism and Jewish practices in this country. “
From the blog of the good man Martin Linton who was the MP for Battersea.
March 7, 2013
·
Record number of Questions on Palestine
Pressure builds for a total stop on settlement trade
Will the Government put any economic pressure on the Israelis to stop expanding their illegal settlements in the West Bank so that negotiations on a settlement with the Palestinians can resume?
In Tuesday’s Foreign Office questions there were a record number of questions – 7 out of 15 – focused on the Israel-Palestine conflict and all but one of them critical of the Israeli government – a sign of how opinion is shifting within the House of Commons.
But the answers brought no more clarity about the Government’s intentions. The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, placed all his hopes on an American effort to revive the peace process when President Obama visits Israel and Palestine later this month.
He also repeated his promise to “incentivise” and if need be “disincentivise” either side from actions, such as building illegal settlements, which were an obstacle to the resumption of negotiations.
Middle East minister Alistair Burt repeated his mantra that “we do not believe in a boycott”, but MPs were left guessing what the difference might be between a boycott or sanctions and “disincentivisation”.
/..
http://martinlinton.org/2013/03/07/record-number-of-questions-on-palestine/
“I would say that would be motive for the very few, if the Nationalists win it will be down to tribalist instincts and greed”
….the mantra sold to the nations of Britain has been: ‘Welsh and Scottish nationalism (and English) bad and grubby – British nationalism great and just’ – a message pushed by the likes of the repugnant Marxist Zionist Milliblands as well as the far right neo cons. I think we can safely assume that British nationalism and the Anglo American imperialist eugenicist programme is the most racist, sick and twisted form of nationalism seen in modern history and that Wales, Scotland and England have far more to offer the world as autonomous states working together
I found the reliance on that little sideways photocopy poor, no wonder it wasn’t pointed out when i asked.
Here is something more respectable to judge:
https://www.og.decc.gov.uk/information/bb_updates/maps/infrast.pdf
I can see the 1999 maritime border extends out fairly perpendicular to the straight-ish section of coast extending about 50 miles either side of the land border.
In respect to this local section of coastline it can be seen to be roughly equidistant on either side.
Since that section of coast is pointing more northernly than any lower section of English coast, and since the Scottish coast directly above gives way to the firth of Forth, it is a measurement that is loaded most heavily in Englands favour.
It tries to ignore the fact that the English coast below is less northerly facing, and the long coast directly above the firth of Forth leans out into the North Sea facing southeast.
The result is clear to see, a bump of territory cutting into the area surrounding the scottish landmass – a bump with no corresponding english coast or mass behind it. It is the result of choosing to extrapolate from that small section and ignoring the big picture. Its not fair at all, and the sort of arguments i have read to support it including “England can do what they damn well like” are not fair minded either.