I avoided the Thatcherfest yesterday by flying to Accra, and landed slap in the middle of a State Visit by President Ahmadinejad. Any number of levels of irony there. I am however pleased to see President John Mahama – an old friend of mine – giving out a fairly clear signal he is not going to be a US puppet. That was reinforced yesterday by a high profile announcement from the Ministry of Finance of a new policy aimed at increasing the – hitherto very limited – social benefit from Ghana’s oil and mining industries. Just how much this will amount to in practice remains to be seen, but I am very pleased to see that, as John Mahama’s Presidency in his own right gets underway, the direction of travel may be more radical and aimed at social justice.
Another piece of good news from West Africa yesterday was President Goodluck Jonathan of Nigeria’s announcement of a negotiating committee to try to open negotiations with Boko Haram on the basis of a ceasefire and an amnesty. The committee’s remit includes a specific commitment to look at underlying grievances that had led to the unrest.
Nigeria shows much greater wisdom than the standard Western government line that the state can do no wrong and that all terrorist movements must be crushed by military force – something that often leads into an unending revenge cycle. Insurgency movements are indeed always caused – no matter how psychotic or vicious individual terrorists may be and no matter how evil some of their acts. For any terrorist or insurgency activity to have sufficient support in a host population to have a resilient existence, that population must believe itself to have a legitimate grievance. Ultimately the only way to overcome terrorism is to talk to the terrorists. Which is not to say I think this initiative will succeed; but it is certainly the right thing to try.
I thought that would happen Mary. your concerns and support for the Palestinian People is Nobel and just cause.
It suited the troll to twist things as much as possible. all the hounding has been just ugly and nasty, and if you leave it means bad wins over good yet again.
I hope you decide to stay, and hope you are ok.
@ All,
This declassified document tells quite a story. Pretty clear evidence, and it gets really interesting from page 8.
http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/wars/northwoods.pdf
Should make us think a bit more when next we are inclined to us the phrase “conspiracy theory”.
CB
Habbabkuk and Crew.
You’re clearly intelligent enough people.
As much as many of us decry you lot here there’s damn few of us who would ban you.
I would like to think that’s a mark of this blog’s tolerance-even when it gets shirty.
But,if i may…what you and your “organised” crew-and let’s be honest that’s what it is whether you deny it or not-have done since Craig’s blog was announced 3rd most influential political blog,has been nothing but a sinister,stalking attack on certain individuals who,last time i checked,were neither advocating violence or anti-Semitic.
Pretty nauseating and,frankly,worrying what you guys are doing.
What i will say,finally Habbabkuk-and cohorts-is this:
In your,perhaps understandable,fervour to rid the world of your greatest fears and historical enemies,please…?
Don’t become them.
Cheers.
I always thought NI was ‘resolved’ by the US strangling their funding making talking a way out and save face. So my question is how do you constrain funding of, and access to arms by, insurgencies?
Maybe guns should have built in planned obsolescence so later, when your funded freedom fighter becomes your terrorist insurgent he can’t shoot you with your own gun and their funds get rapidly depleted?!
I’m not exactly a regular poster here but I read most of the comments and would echo the comments of those asking Mary to stay. Please stay, Mary. That Habbabkuk has been relentless and cruel in his(?) trolling of you, but stay anyway. Don’t let the trolls win.
In fact, don’t let the trolls post. Being banned from this site is not a curtailment of free speech, while online bullying may well curtail the appetite for speech of those that are bullied, as is happening here right now.
They’re not here to make their points in a civilised manner, they’re here to disrupt and cause distress. This place should be for discussion, not abuse, and anyone that abuses should be given the heave. They can go and discuss things with like minded individuals somewhere else, in the unlikely event it thrills them to do so.
Mary has been here for a long time and the stalking of her by certain posters is saying that the moderation does not care much of what happens here.
I would like to thank Mary for her conscientious posts and her support for the struggle of Palestinians against all odds.
Like Chinese water torture, drip by drip by drip, her resolve has been whittled down with petty insinuations and cyber stalking. If social responsibility is just a word, this blog moderation proofs it.
Getting a thicker skin is not for all. So who will this interloper target next if Mary’s gone? Is this just about cutting people down? is it aimed at Craig or is it aimed at us, with Craigs knowledge.
Whatever it is, its downright dirty, seemingly a trait that is acceptable here, odious and pervasive, lingering like a blanket of putrid smoke that refuses to lift.
Mary’s posts have value to me, they are informative, whilst those who bicker and stain this blog with nothing but ‘their opinion’, some never to post a link, are acting like a gang of school boys on heat.
Mary, are you really going to let these bullies, not to forget the lax moderation, chase you out of town?
@ Mary:
” I see that the current comments have even been given the seal of approval by the main offender.”
Very embarrassing, that. Colour me embarrassed. But even a troll has to get it right sometimes.
Jon: do the multiple bag ads above have an Israeli IP?
Ghana: this prompts a quiet ‘hmmmm?’ :
http://www.ghanabusinessnews.com/2013/04/19/foreigners-to-pay-120-for-ghana-registration/
Certainly, keeping free speech in its entirety on the board gives Craig a distinct moral edge over the Guardian and BBC, which tremble at the thought that recipes for bagels may be construed as antisemitic…..but if a troll is consistently harassing other posters, and using insults and mockery to do so, I don’t see any reason why it shouldn’t be ejected. Not that this will stop it registering as something else and returning. So ejecting it in the absence of continuous moderation would be a waste of time.
Earlier comment re EK – if the troll wants to close this blog down, all it has to do is post ‘Mein Kampf’ repeatedly. It is an insanely boring piece of work.
I’m very sad to see Mary leave the comments section. She provided a very rich seam of links which must have been hard work to provide. I think the best way to deal with trolls is to ignore them. I’ll continue to read Craig’s posts but don’t think I’ll bother with the petty bickering on the comments.
@Courtenay
Exactly NI saw progress when people decided to sit down and talk.
Just been watching the latest on Boston on BBC….. Why all the Military personnel? Surely what happened is a Police/FBI matter.
@ Jim Mcd :
Are you sure they’re not National Guardsmen? I find nothing surprising in their presence, in the same way asI f ound nothing surprising (or objectional)in the use of army units to provide security at the London Olympics. You use whatever manpower’s available, surely.
Although quite often I disagree with Mary, I would least want her to leave this blog. She makes useful contribution to the various issues and seems to be passionate about what she believes in.
The general problem on this blog is (sometimes) that participants (probably due to being very passionate) start insulting each other. Moderators need to be keep an eye on such issues as even freedom of speech needs to have its boundaries. Everyone is entitled to have their opinion, I repeat Everyone. Difference of opinions is clear indicator of that we represent vibrant society where everyone have their own opinion and being able to speak about is what matters. Nobody should have right to abuse someone just because they disagree with their opinion. Abusers need to be excluded. If person cannot argue in civilised manner then they should probably learn to do it first.
Mary: fwiw, I don’t think you should be bullied off the board either.
Uzbek: well put, thanks – seconded.
One way to encourage your voluntary moderator would be to read what he writes and act on it. Jon wrote (18 Apr, 11:37 pm):
so the discussion about moderation should continue from here:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/04/crass/comment-page-5/#comment-403660
Mary, are you giving up? I am not a permanent stand owner on this blog like many people here are. However, I read it often whenever I am back from business from Central Asia, and your comments make much sense in understanding the current trend of political and social affairs around us. I have lived times in the Soviet Union, and I must say, Britain and other Western countries are sliding slowly into soviet style politics. During the soviets too, many people gave up standing up against injustice and chauvinism of the political right wing. Do not let this happen here.
American puppet or not – this is seriously weird:
http://www.spyghana.com/its-a-shame-to-name-a-highway-after-george-walker-bush/
Hobnoxious
Even if Saddam and Mrs T and Tony B were at my door, which I think I can safely say is unlikely, I would give them a cup of tea with full hospitality in a fellow human being capacity. Your technique of personal attacks on an individual is obnoxious, and the criterion for you being deemed a troll.
@ Clark –
Hesitation may not be a problem with us, but repetition and deviation are endemic…
Well put Victor. It is sometimes misunderstood and could be quite confusing to Westerners that despite being the only socialist superpower on earth USSR was run by extreme right wing politicians for whom left ideas were just tools of keeping control over the people and resources. Some argue that USSR lasted so long not just because people were giving up, but because numerous Stalin’s purges wiped out soviet intelligentsia in the early days and replaced it with half robots who had knowledge and expertise but lacked intelligence.
Another thing to mention is that Western societies had their worse times before. Remember McCarthyism in US? Communist scare in Europe?
Being ‘Sorry’ on a blog that attempts to counter tyranny is of course not quite good enough. The success of this effort depends on a number of important factors. Craig Murray has excellent contacts that he can sometimes use to initiate and verify his comments.
Most times however the best posts are the result of ‘crunching the numbers’ and plain old hard work in digging data or information while following a logical process of collection and verifying.
Certain ‘base’ documents such as the pdf from Courtenay push home that need to inquire and report using our insight and awareness. That process of course relies on talent, will and perseverance.
In our blog play-ground nobody dominates and any imperious assault on any of our players is enigmatic to fairness and liberty, is oppressive and must cease forthwith.
If somebody leaves as a result of harsh treatment then we, as a group, have failed to uphold the point of this place.
Am I the only person who thinks that the Police/Military lockdown of the whole city of Boston to catch one man is a bit overkill? Could this be a practice for things to come for the American people?
Mary, please don’t allow yourself to be harassed or intimidated out of commenting. I for one appreciate your comments and relevant links. I suspect the attacks are being directed by those who find your pro-Palestinian comments and links are just a little bit too effective (and may be being paid to troll).
No Jim – the wheel is turning as our consciousness shifts to another gear; exactly mother(nurture)nature’s intention to ensure survival of her culminating mutation, us!
That shift means we evolve and here lies a problem. Control becomes anathema to us especially control by fear.
Laws, regulation, money, fallacious events and trained military/police/territorial army in the discipline of crowd control, have all grown, boosted to hold that new alertness in check.
Happily a Chief constable admitted if the number of people arrested in a demonstration exceed 10,000 the government falls over-night.
Sorted!
@ Mary :
Life (unfortunately) teaches us that magnanimity is often perceived as a sign of weakness and turned against the person showing magnanimity.
Nevertheless, I’m willing – at least for a ‘trial period’ and while firmly rejecting the charges of ‘bullying’ or ‘stalking’ which some people delight in levelling at me – to go easy/easier on you, as I understand that participating in this blog is important to you and it’s not my intention or my agenda to drive you away from it.
This approach would of course be facilitated if you were to indulge in a bit of gentle self-moderation in the future. Staying more (I don’t expect complete abstinence) on topic and also avoiding irrelevancies such as pointing out that someone happens to be someone else’s “third” wife or the Jewishness of certain public actors or of someone they might happen to be acquainted with, etc, would be helpful in this regard.
It would also be helpful if some of your supporters showed greater civility : while I would prefer an answer from you if I put such questions as ‘how is this relevant..etc..’, I have no particular objection if one or more of your supporters answer the question for you, provided however that they speak to the substance and moreover do so in a civilised manner (Nevermind, Doug Scorgie et al please note).
Last but not least, I do believe that you need to develop a somewhat thicker skin and not to assume automatically that anyone who criticises one of your posts is a troll intent on disruption; people should be allowed to have a different take on something or query the legitimacy or factuality of one or the other of your posts.
Forced multiculturalism, millitant feminism, free love, sexual degenerousy, egalaterianism,lowering moral codes, displacing virtues, openenly deconstructing tradditionalism,
All from the left. So what does right wing mean. This is a liberal blog not one that should just adhere a anything goes mentality.
We were talking about free speach can we not at least adhere to some sort of protectionism; of values that have been dissappearing consistantly in the recent passed.
No wonder liberalism is now defunct cause it moved so far left it is twisted?
What’s next polygamy?
Craig has mentioned he is not bothered, so its a free for all?
Go to a commune or a succesful state or institution for guidance.
‘Nevertheless, I’m willing’
That should read: ‘I promise I’m going to .. in future’ to be even remotely convincing. You are still talking as though there is some validity in your unprovoked personalised comments. Picking on people personally is totally out of order, without a full and comprehensive apology that shows you understand how unacceptable your picking on Mary in a personal way has been.
Fact is you don’t understand. Your intention is to hurt because you cannot stand listening to truth.
Off topic (whatever it was):
Ammonium nitrate is known to be unpredictable, and responds to very small levels of impurities by decomposing violently (going bang). Your opinions on the mentality of those who placed a school and an eventide home within a mile of a bulk NH4NO3 storage facility would perhaps be of interest to someone?
Oh, and if you see a pretty fire burning at a fertiliser plant near you, probably best to get behind something solid…
http://globalnews.ca/news/491042/photos-videos-of-texas-fertilizer-plant-explosion-2/
Chechnya?
Hmm. Guano?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/19/17817173-one-boston-marathon-suspect-killed-second-suspect-his-brother-on-loose-after-firefight?lite