By chance I knew Margaret Thatcher rather better than a junior civil servant might have been expected to, not least from giving her some maritime briefings during the First Gulf War. On another occasion Denis and I once got absolutely blind drunk in Lagos – I had been given him to look after for the day, and the itinerary started with the Guinness brewery and went on to the United Distillers bottling plant, before lunch at the golf club. I had to reunite him with his spouse for the State Banquet and quite literally fell out of the car. Happy days.
I can say I was on first name terms with her – she always called me by my first name. Except unfortunately she thought that was Peter. I recall she came out to Poland when I was in the Embassy there and I was embarrassed because she knew me, and thus greeted me more warmly than my Embassy superiors. The problem was lessened by her continuing to call me Peter very loudly, even after I corrected her twice.
In person she was frightfully sharp, she really was. If you gave her a briefing, she had an uncanny ability to seize on the one point where you did not have sufficient information. She also had that indescribable charisma – you really could feel when she entered a room in a way I have never experienced with anybody else, not Mandela or Walesa, for example. You may be surprised to hear that in person I found her quite likeable.
Yet she was a terrible, terrible disaster to this country. The utter devastation of heavy industry, the writing off of countless billions worth of tooling and equipment, the near total loss of the world’s greatest concentrated manufacturing skills base, the horrible political division of society and tearing of the bonds within our community. She was a complete, utter disaster.
Let me give one anecdote to which I can personally attest. In leaving office she became a “consultant” to US tobacco giant Phillip Morris. She immediately used her influence on behalf of Phillip Morris to persuade the FCO to lobby the Polish government to reduce the size of health warnings on Polish cigarette packets. Poland was applying to join the EU, and the Polish health warnings were larger than the EU stipulated size.
I was the official on whose desk the instruction landed to lobby for lower health warnings. I refused to do it. My then Ambassador, Michael Llewellyn Smith (for whom I had and have great respect) came up with the brilliant diplomatic solution of throwing the instruction in the bin, but telling London we had done it.
So as you drown in a sea of praise for Thatcher, remember this. She was prepared to promote lung cancer, for cash.
John Goss 9 Apr, 2013 – 3:06 pm
Talking of Generals, she protected the mass murderer, Pinochet……
According to the Rettig Commission (1991), Chile’s struggle with terrorism resulted in 2300 (both sides) dead and missing. Raúl Rettig was a former ambassador of President Salvador Allende. Allende was elected for a President by the Chilean Congress in 1970. Three years later, the Chilean congress censured Allende for violating law and the constitution in order to “establish a totalitarian system absolutely opposed to the representative system of government established by the Constitution.” Allende was censured for “making violation of the Constitution and the law a permanent system of conduct” and for “systematically trampling the powers of the other branches of government” while at the same time “violating the civil rights of the citizens guaranteed in the Constitution and permitting and stimulating the formation of illegal parallel powers which constitute a grave threat for the nation.” The resolution condemned Allende for aiding and abetting the establishment of illegal armed groups that “intend to replace legitimately constituted powers and serve as a base for the dictatorship of the proletariat.” The resolution noted that this goal was publicly acknowledged by Allende himself.
“The censure of Allende called upon the military to intervene and oust the Allende government. Housewives, unable to find food for their families, had been calling for military intervention for months.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts189.html
http://www.policyofliberty.net/HPdA/RobertsAraujo.html
The book discussed above was published in Chile in Spanish by one of the universities in Chile, based on researching newspaper files, interviewing the generals, Pinochet, housewives, businessmen, members of the successor government, civilian members of the Pinochet government, surviving terrorists, including a former “most wanted” terrorist who ended up president of the Spanish-owned telephone company and a number of others who experienced the era.
http://www.opednews.com/articles/Is-America-Caught-In-The-C-by-paul-craig-roberts-110727-582.html?show=votes#allcomments
“Based on both left-wing and military sources, including testimony from both sides, the book covers the Chilean military’s efforts to put down Marxist terrorism in Chile. The actions undertaken to fight terrorism garnered the Pinochet government the reputation as a human rights offender. The international press never reported the activities of Chile’s violent left. Former leftist terrorists cooperated with the authors and told their story because they want their place in Chilean history…….
The Pinochet government was the most successful government Chile has ever known. Yet, the world views Pinochet as a monstrous dictator and Allende as a caring social democrat. The book tells the story of how the myth of Allende was created and shows its continuing deleterious effect on Chile.”
Margaret Thatcher was apparently right in her regard for Pinochet.
Glenn_Uk,
Forgive my late reply – naturally I have been slurping Bollinger all day and laughing at plebs.
Hitler/Stalin comparison – patently absurd. They didn’t win any arguments – they killed those who disagreed with them.
Thatcher won the argument. She destroyed socialism by the ballot box. The reason you see this level of hatred from the left is because she finished them as a political force. Street parties and other pointless and gratuitous celebrations of her death are all you have left, and it shows. There is nothing you can do that would further prove she was right than engaging in this idiotic behaviour.
Even the fiercest critics of Thatcher admit things could not carry on as they had before she came to power. This is is a tacit approval of her policies. One major criticism is that she changed the country too fast, without feeling or compassion. Again, this is a criticism of the manner in which she did it, not that the direction was wrong. New Labour sold out because after Thatcher, Labour was no longer electable.
Anyway, Thatcher gave us the Single European Act, and that resulted in fewer turds floating around off Blackpool, which I know is the foremost reason for your support of the European Union, so for that, at least, you should be thankful.
So keep on raising those pints and by all means piss on her grave, Glenn_UK. The only death you’re celebrating is that of your own kind.
I grew up in Fife through the Thatcher years and watched two industries totally disappear.They never came back.
She used our Police forces against us as a paramilitary during the miners strike. She split communities and impoverished thousands.All of Scotland and northern England were her targets.Yuppies appeared and money was worshipped.
Our MSM are not permitting comments for obvious reasons. Censorship to make her look more popular than she was. War in the Falklands, war in Ireland, and war on the streets of England and mass unemployment.Britain was grim.
If there was anything to cheer after this long winter , it’s her demise.
Her legacy is greed and a banking sector that is robbing the country and her citizens blind of pensions and savings.
Auld Nick will have his work cut out.That’s if he isn’t made redundant first and Hell sold off.
Levantine, don’t know who you are but you live in a world of make-believe history. Any success Pinochet had was because of support from CIA-funded operations like the overthrow of Allende and US money backing his extreme right wing policies. I suspect if you had been one of his torture, murder or rape victims you might have a different view on history. He wasn’t Julian Assange. Spain had a cast-iron case against the dictator. Thatcher protected him from facing trial because of helping her with her unnecessary war in the Falklands. I don’t normally entertain trolls. I write under my own name. I suspect you wrote the book you quote from yourself because I cannot think of two people having such a misguided view. No wonder you support Thatcher.
B.Liar was probably having thoughts about the aftermath of his own demise. There will definitely be no grand funeral for him, just as there should be none for Thatcher.
‘Mr Blair, who, like Baroness Thatcher, won three general elections, told the BBC: “I think that’s pretty poor taste. You’ve got to, even if you disagree with someone very strongly – particularly at the moment of their passing – show some respect.”
He added it was “part of modern political life” to make “very difficult” decisions.
Mr Blair also said that “when you decide you divide and that’s just the way of it” and that Lady Thatcher would be “pretty philosophical” about any criticism following her death.’
9 April 2013
Tony Blair: Margaret Thatcher death celebration parties in poor taste
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22080238
The BBC seem to be giving him many opportunities to voice his opinions. Is this a result of his pal Purnell who now within the BBC as strategy director easing the way for B.Liar.
Reminder of Purnell’s Friend of Israel connection.
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/544102_10200607873615514_590435015_n.jpg
The growing Pinochet dictatorship toll up to last year.
“Last year, President Sebastián Piñera’s government officially recognized 9,800 more victims of the dictatorship. That increased the total list of people killed, tortured or imprisoned for political reasons during Pinochet’s regime to 40,018. The government estimates 3,095 of those were killed.”
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/12/19/reporters-investigating-pinochet-abuses-have-homes-robbed/
How many of those 3,095 were tortured John and how many of them were dropped into the Pacific from helicopters and aircraft? May their souls rest in peace. We can only weep.
So how much are they going to milk us all for this one? Giving her what pretty much ammounts to a State Funded wake is obscene.
Whatever it is clear that the followers of the Thatcher Cult have no grasp of reality much like the fact that British Nationalists still refuse to waken from thier Dream State in which the Sun Never Sets and so on and Brittania Rules the Waves.
It is the 21st Century but from watching any of the Brit Media and dipping into any of its Press I suppose we could be fooled into thinking it was another Century or a parallel universe that has collided with the UK. I cant make up my mind if it is fantasy or science fiction that I am viewing. I think I will ignore it all and go back to the 21st Century, perhaps the rest of the UK will catch up but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Why is it that Allende fans never mention the money he received from the KGB to get into power? Seeing as you lot are so fond of “links” and “connections”, surely Allende being “linked” to quite possibly the most murderous regime in human history would be of some passing interest, no?
” How many of those 3,095 were tortured John and how many of them were dropped into the Pacific from helicopters and aircraft? May their souls rest in peace. We can only weep.”
Like you really care, Mary. Had it been done by one of your favoured regimes we would hear nothing at all from you. The only reason you pretend to care is because Pinochet was “linked” to Thatcher.
“Just the expected drivel from a disinformer. ”
Pretty rich coming from yourself but anyone can check for themselves and will see that what I posted is true and can be verified as such which is more than can be said of anything you’ve written.
To be honest I don’t know why I departed from my usual tactic of ignoring you and responded at all. I don’t think you believe a word of the tripe you write; I think you just enjoy laughing at the poor saps who do but there you are, I have risen to your bait just this once.
Good Thatcher story. Her support of thugs the world over, I think, tells us about who she really was. Pinochet, Saddam, Suharto, even Pol Pot (yup, even he, according to Pilger). Basically, she hated the left, to an extent that was borderline, if not actually, pathological. A willingness to turn a blind eye to some of the worst human beings, all because they ‘controlled’ communists and other unspecified ‘left wing’ types was the true mark of her Government, and her personally. She may well have been charismatic and intelligent, though I never saw it personally, but her record was dismal, at home and abroad. Bluntly, her record suggests a woman with a personality disorder, but we can never prove that, just speculate.
As to the point about Allende, that’s just purest conspiracy theory. Not that I mind conspiracy theories, but they are so named because they can’t be proved. I submit to you that Allende got no KGB funding at all, and the CIA just spread disinfo that he did; also a conspiracy theory, and just as, if not more, likely. Whatever. He still won the election fairly. If sources of funding were a factor in what constitutes fairness (and they may well be), all US elections would be void. Not such a bad thing, perhaps.
“Spain had a cast-iron case against the dictator. Thatcher protected him from facing trial ”
Not quite true, whilst she campaigned not to have him extradited the British courts ruled he should go but it was Jack Straw who let him off the hook on the (false) grounds of ill health.
22_09_1986 Tell Sid about the British Gas share offer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nedVpG-GjkE
80s advert BT shares sale
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VpuTmdKK_E
etc
etc
etc
etc
Brendan,
“I submit to you that Allende got no KGB funding at all, and the CIA just spread disinfo that he did”
http://www.cepchile.cl/dms/lang_2/doc_1140.html#.UWR-57uXstY
‘Like you really care, Mary’ That I resent.
I care and have spent a lot of my adult life caring for others. There are no degrees of caring. You either care or you don’t.
Care for whom, Mary? If you are a carer then I respect the work you do. And naturally you will care for your friends, family and others in need. But your “care” as exhibuted here follows your politics. Do you really lose sleep over the Belgrano or the victims of Pinochet, or are you motivated by hatred of Thatcher?
@ Craig :
Apologies for not yet responding to your invitation to discuss; I’ll do so tomorrow.
*********
One might be forgiven, after skimming through today’s posts, for gaining the impression that Margaret Thatcher was descended in direct line from Attila the Hun, Savonarola, Uncle Joe and Pol Pot. I think it would be difficult to find a more concentrated expression of vindictive hatred and a greater outpouring of bile on one single page of a thread.
It might also be worth reflecting that the UK is a country (one could wish it were not so) where people are able to hold “street parties” to celebrate the death of a former Prime Minister without interference. I wonder how the authorities would have reacted to similar events in Moscow in 1953 or in Pekin after the death of Mao….or how they would react in Havana once the boss dies.
Just more crap from you, Kempe.
Howe was sacked, the biggest disappointment of his life, and committed him to get back at ‘Iron Lady’ for the most unexpected dismissal – what made him ultimately dismiss successfully the PM.
How about a link for Howe just being involved in a Cabinet reshuffle?
And still no explanation from you about Younger’s surprise retirement from the Thatcher administration.
I believe everything I write, especially in this case where we all well might have been incinerated in a surprise nuclear war which was to be triggered by the assassination of a democratically elected stats minister whose unnecessary murder is still unsolved, and there were about a dozen or so double agents and spies killed in the process, about 16 Norwegian engineers killed in the fallout, Soviet spies who saved our lives being imprisoned for life so that the real story doesn’t leak out, etc., ad nauseam.
I am totally committed to exposing this and other covert plots which usually result in devastating disasters.
Afterthought : I’ve come to the conclusion that what motivates the Eminences on this blog is a hatred of their country. They post not to engage in discussion or to learn or even to inform but to externalise that deep hatred within them. And, of course, Margaret Thatcher provides an ideal focal point for their hatred at present.
“It might also be worth reflecting that the UK is a country (one could wish it were not so) where people are able to hold “street parties” to celebrate the death of a former Prime Minister without interference.” — Habbabkuk
Hardly …
“Disunited in mourning: police fear Thatcher funeral may turn into security nightmare
“Fears of civil disorder in capital as plans are revealed for partially state-funded ceremonial funeral.
“Meanwhile lawyers warn against pre-emptive arrests as police scan social media to identify likely protesters”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disunited-in-mourning-police-fear-thatcher-funeral-may-turn-into-security-nightmare-8566452.html
Dreoilin – wholly understandable given the pissed-up “protesters” hurling abuse and missiles at police. Any excuse for a fight and the chance to scream “Fascists”, eh?
@Giles
Are you saying you approve of pre-emptive arrests?
“Michael Oswald, from Bhatt Murphy Solicitors, which represented 15 people who were arrested on [sic] during the Royal Wedding, said: “There must be a concern that the events that took place in Bristol and Brixton last night will be used by the police to justify the kind of tactics that were seen in the run-up to and during the Royal Wedding. Whatever one thinks about the rights and wrongs of protesting during a funeral the law protects people’s freedom to voice their opinions publicly in a peaceful manner”.”
People’s ‘freedom to voice their opinions publicly in a peaceful manner’ seems to have virtually disappeared, in the USA and in the UK. Taken off the books. (And yes, I am aware that hurling missiles at police is not included in that ‘freedom’.)
Trowbridge H. Ford. I bet Howe never forgave her for that time in a cabinet meeting when he was expressing an opinion and she interrupted him with “Shut up Geoffrey” according to the Guardian I think.
Frazer wrote “The Belgrano was steaming full ahead just outside the 12 mile limit and had been repeatedly been warned to reverse course..it did not so it was torpedoed….end of story really!”
http://belgranoinquiry.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/TEZ.jpg
The Belgrano was outside the 200 mile TEZ when sunk, steaming towards Argentina. Geez, you mistake 12 miles for 200. What are you? Military Intelligence?
No, I’m not. The article you quote talks of a potential “security nightmare” and “civil disorder”. Under such circumstances the Police would have to maintain order, and events yesterday show that violence is a distinct possibility. Nobody is suggesting a clamp-down on people voicing opinions.
I don’t know why the death of a hated old lady with dementia should spark “protests”, as I had thought you were all happy she was dead, but, hey, we live in a free country! Maybe you miss her?
“I’ve come to the conclusion that what motivates the Eminences on this blog is a hatred of their country”
The very opposite is true. What Thatcher did to OUR country and the people was abominable.
A case in point.
The destruction of public science: an Indian scientist records one aspect of Margaret Thatcher’s legacy
April 9th, 2013 by PCU
The positive and negative aspects of Margaret Thatcher’s legacy are being aired. For the writer, the damaging effects of privatisation, mass unemployment, waste of North Sea oil revenue, financial deregulation and outsourcing far outweigh the rapprochement with Gorbachev – the only positive which comes readily to mind.
Dr Devinder Sharma writes today:
http://political-cleanup.org/?p=6996
“but, hey, we live in a free country! Maybe you miss her?”
Giles, I’m Irish. I’ve never lived in the UK, and no, I don’t miss her.
I’ve never celebrated anyone’s death, either.
Sounds like there’ll be overtime for Met officers.
And if anyone is thinking of effigy-burning, better not discuss it here.
‘night