Israel’s massive air strikes against Syria are, beyond argument, illegal. There is no provision in international law that enables you to bomb another country because that country is in internal chaos. Yet the reporting on the BBC, and indeed throughout the mainstream media, makes no mention of their illegality, and makes no mention of the people killed. Contrast this to the condemnatory tone of BBC reporting of North Korean ballistic missile tests, or of Iran’s civil uranium enrichment programme, both of which I view as neither wise nor desirable, but both of which are undoubtedly quite legal.
I have previously noted that Israel does not want the Syrian regime to fall. Tel Aviv has looked long and hard at the likely result, and decided that the risks are too great; an Israel-friendly Sunni strongman could yet be engineered, but a jihadist influenced government is a very real danger for them. This Israeli coolness is the major reason that the Obama government have stepped back from stoking directly the flames of war, although they continue to do so through their Saudi, Qatar and other allies.
But a Syria tearing itself to pieces is, so long as it lasts, pretty acceptable to Netanyahu. He can step in when he wants and destroy Syria’s military infrastructure, such as the defensive installations just wiped out in massive strikes around Damascus. This is very helpful to Israel’s long term military domination. Normally the scale of this devastating Israeli attack on Syria’s ability to defend itself against Israel air strikes would have brought the most profound world condemnation, but suddenly it is “humanitarian intervention” – and nobody in the western media has even felt the need to justify the narrative that Damascus’ air defences were a humanitarian threat to rebel populations.
In the meantime, a clear statement from the United Nations that the evidence points to rebels, not the government, using the chemical weapon Sarin in Syria, does appear on the BBC website but I have not heard it broadcast, and it does not figure in western media with a hundredth of the prominence given to the unsubstantiated claims of Assad forces using Sarin.
I am in no sense a supporter of Assad. I should dearly love to see his regime overthrown and a democratic government representing the Syrian people installed instead. But the attempt to subvert Syria and influence the country towards the installation of a US and House of Saud backed puppet regime, backed by an extraordinary barrage of distorted propaganda to fool western populations over the course and meaning of events, is sickening.
Good piece by Medialens on the chemical weapons claim
http://www.medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=730:this-madman&catid=51:alerts-2013&Itemid=202
and at the bottom they quote Craig
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/08/stephen-hawking-israel-academic-boycott
Good man.
@LWTC247
“a jihadist influenced government is a very real danger for them.” – I strongly disagree.
The so called “Jihadists” are NOT fighting their ‘natural’ enemy, not now nor before the implosion of Syria. No, they are fighting Assad.
Actually the amorphous nature of the so called “Jihadists” makes it all but impossible to ‘read’ them (and their goals), but it’s clear they are NOT attacking the Zionist entity an it’s not too hard to come up with simple and plausible reasons as to why that is.”
How can you say that? The Spring is Winter. All of these dictatorial regimes are falling and Islamist’s are replacing them with their version of communism meets fascism, sharia (hey brother, who is first among equals?). The Jihadists are obviously not focusing on their ‘greater jihad’ struggle for peace, humility, dignity, etc.
My opinion is that nations can appear to do nothing, but they should be doing something in the background to ensure that another middle eastern theocracy doesn’t appear touting it’s own brand of expansionism.
Resident dissident
Your phrase “The fact is that Israel, Iran, Syria and Hezbollah are in breach of international law on many counts is not in dispute” is not equivalent to what I said at all.
As for your examples (I note that you have included nothing on Iran by the way)
While I concede that it is possible to do my own research on the other examples, I am sure that Nasrallah has made many statements on suicide bombings in Israel, I feel entitled to know which statement you are alluding to. Whatever he is accused of saying, it is difficult to imagine that the criminality contained therein can be compared to the undisputed highly illegal smashing of Lebanese civilian infrastructure along with massive civilian casualties perpetrated by the Israelis.
After a quick search I have just found two Hama massacres, one in 1982 and the more recent one.
In the case of the more recent one (assuming that this is the one you meant) both sides are claiming that the other side perpetrated the atrocity. In light of the fact that many of the victims seem to have been alawites or government supporters, I am inclined to doubt the rebel claims. Given that these are the same rebels that set off car bombs in busy streets and execute prisoners, I certainly wouldn’t put it past them.
For your other example, after a brief search I found this regarding the most high profile of the assassinations (from Wiki as it happens):-
‘Hariri was assassinated on 14 February 2005 when explosives equivalent to around 1000 kg of TNT were detonated as his motorcade drove past the St. George Hotel in the Lebanese capital, Beirut. The investigation, by the Special Tribunal for Lebanon, into his assassination is still ongoing and currently led by the independent investigator Daniel Bellemare. In its first two reports, UNIIIC indicated that the Syrian government may be linked to the assassination.[1] Hariri’s killing led to massive political change in Lebanon, including the Cedar Revolution and the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon.’
Hardly conclusive is it? and who benfited anyway, not the Syrians thats for sure.
So to sum up:-
NOTHING on Iran
Some WORDS from a man who has just seen his country illegally smashed.
An ACCUSATION made by ‘rebels’ who are perfectly capable of comitting atrocities themselves and who may well be the real culprits.
And another tentative ACCUSATION based on an enquiry which is apparently ongoing.
Why don’t you get back to me when you have actually got something?
OK Mark – carry on believing that Iran, Syria and Hizbollah have not committed any serious breaches of international law – since I very much doubt anything will convince you otherwise.
And what about the first Hama massacre, which is the one I meant and where the facts are now pretty indiputable – lets just ignore that. And as for the Hariri killing your logic is comical – it was the pretty universal disgust with Syria’s involvement that forced them to leave Lebanon, I don’t think any serious commentator has denied Syria (and the Assad monarchy’s role) in assassinating those who objected to their involvement in Lebanon. As for Iran’s breaches of international law – might I suggest you look a little closer. Invading foreign emabssies, taking civilian hostages, supplying missiles to Hizbollah might be worthwhile Google search terms.
Unlike you I can see little difference between being blow up by suicide bomber on a bus in Israel – or by an Israeli shell fired into Lebanon. Don’t you realise that these things will only stop when decent people recognise that evil is being committed by both sides rather than trying to work out which sides evil bastards have the greater justification.
@Resident Dissident:
“Unlike you I can see little difference between being blow up by suicide bomber on a bus in Israel – or by an Israeli shell fired into Lebanon. Don’t you realise that these things will only stop when decent people recognise that evil is being committed by both sides rather than trying to work out which sides evil bastards have the greater justification.”
I totally agree, but what do you do when these regimes have taught in common day Islamic texts that Jews are pigs and monkeys? The people voted for Hamas, and they not only don’t recognize Israel, but want it wiped off the map. The last 40+ years these teachings have gone on in Islamized states, the worse it gets. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq all tried to defeat Israel militarily, and failed a couple of times. Terrorism really doesn’t work, and the chance of any of the actors coming to reach peaceful agreements will never happen as long as concessions can not be made on both sides. Whether you or for or against Israel, they’re not going anywhere.
Nobody’s innocent, and every nation state is above international law as it’s a joke. There’s no way to enforce it (sanctions, condemnation, etc). It’s like a security guard with nothing but a whistle saying ‘stop or I’ll say stop again’… Everyone will act according to their own interests, and nation states always want weaker states on their border.
Muir has been reporting from Beirut on Syria for a long time. All his reports have ‘cannot be verified’ or have similar riders tacked on the end. The BBC was banned presumably for producing anti-Assad propaganda.
The number of refugees is over estimated in a post above. The number is 1.3m not 2m. Would there be refugees if the West had not been ‘assisting’ the rabble rebels?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_civil_war
UK Media Helps Pave Road to War on Syria
The Editors, 8 May 2013
http://www.newsunspun.org/article/uk-media-helps-pave-road-to-war-on-syria
‘From now on, anything by anybody mentioning any supposedly prophetic documents, from whatever viewpoint, will simply be deleted.’
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
( the head in sand approach )
Indeed, well done Stephen Hawking for making this important deliberation about a free flourishing science, wherever it may thrive and whoever it may inflict with its yearning for learning.
Israel, just as Apartheid South America had to face up to, must realise that a world community is just that, a world community and to be the rogue within, pretend you’re better, will not work. If that means extending the boycott to Budweiser beer and Hagen Daaz, as well as Marks and Spencer’s money exchange and much more on their shelves, that can also be done. We can choose what we consume and equally some independent scientists can speak up for fair and equal speech.
Scientists do not have to involve Israeli universities in their peer studies, nor do they need to work with anybody who can not differentiate between science and politics, who become willing tools to ideologies that foster exclusion.
Resident dissident
I did try to get you to be more specific about your examples, remember, but you had to be bloody awkward didn’t you. From what little I have read about the first Hama massacre it seems almost certain that government forces were responsible. So what is your point? that Bashir Assad should be held responsible for the crimes of his father?
On the Iran issue, once again you start the clock whenever it is convenient for you. I think that it is more appropriate to start the clock with the overthrow of the secular, democratically elected government of Iran in 1953 and the installation of a tyrannical butcher and torturer ie the Shah of Iran. Let me tell you that if any nation were to launch a coup in this country and install a murderous dictatorship, I would have no respect whatsoever for their diplomatic privileges, would you honestly? especially since their diplomatic status was clearly being abused. On the second point, perhaps you would be good enough to quote that part of international law under which it is illegal to supply missiles to Hezbollah.
On your last point (Suicide bombers and shells):-
Firstly, I resent having words put into my mouth and then being criticised as if I had said, or written them.
Secondly, I would go further even than you have. Not only would I condemn unequivocally any deliberate targeting of civilians, but any and all extra-judicial killings of any type whatsoever. Are we able to agree on this?
Resident dissident.
One other thing.
If you really wanted to pin something on the Syrians, why not go back just a few years and recall that the UK, under the Blair administration I believe, was sending prisoners to Syria (and Libya if I recall correctly) to be illegally tortured. No prizes for guessing why that one somehow eluded your selective memory.
Mary/April Showers
And why don’t the vast majority of the Syrian refugees share your view as to the cause of their plight???
MarkU
Glad that youy agree that Syria clearly broke International Law during the Hama massacre – I’m afraid I’m not able to see much discontinuity between Bashar and the slobbering Dauphin, who certainly hasn’t had the good grace to denounce the sins of his father or do much in the way of clearing state structure which he inherited.
On Iran – you still seem to be falling into the trap that one breach of international law can be a genuine justification for another (and that is not putting words into your mouth but my interpretation of what you are saying).
“While I concede that it is possible to do my own research on the other examples, I am sure that Nasrallah has made many statements on suicide bombings in Israel, I feel entitled to know which statement you are alluding to. Whatever he is accused of saying, it is difficult to imagine that the criminality contained therein can be compared to the undisputed highly illegal smashing of Lebanese civilian infrastructure along with massive civilian casualties perpetrated by the Israelis.”
These are your words – i’m afraid that i see little point in drawing a distinction between the morality or legality of Nasrallah’s and his organisations support for suicide bombers and the actions of the Israeli security forces against civilians. You might also wish to look at the number of shells Hizbollah have fired against civilian targets – I’ll let you work out whether supplying missiles for such a purpose to an organisation such as Hizbollah with aims that would clearly breach International Law represents a brach of international law.
@Hasbri:
“I wonder if a ” a jihadist influenced government is a very real danger for them” (for Israel),. I think it is a good thing for Israel,, jihadists allow ‘the war on terror’ to go on indefinitely, and the ‘war on terror’ is a good thing for Israel. The ‘jihadists’ we are told, are funded by Saudia and Qatar, these two countries do not breath without permission from the United States. How is it they are funding perceived ‘threats’ to Israel, America’s ally in the neighbourhood. Doesn’t make sense at all, and nothing is haphazard in this region, everything always makes sense. They all work together, America, Israel, Saudi and Qatar”
___________________________
Really now? America controls Saudi Arabia? America makes her rich, has a business relationship, but how do you explain issue’s such as An American women who married a Saudi man in the US, moves to Saudi with her children, finds out he has another wife living at his home, divorces him, Saudi courts allow him to keep her American children from a previous marriage. She hasn’t seen them in 10 years…. the US State Dept. won’t say a thing due to the Oil relationship the US has with the Saud’s… How about their grotesque human rights record? Exportation of Wahhabism? You’d think the US would tell them to stop and they’d do it because the US controls them. No, the US really wants this to go on, in the name of Imperialism. The US wants to keep spending billions on low level intensity conflicts right? It’s great for the military industrial complex……
How about Israel? Yeah every country, especially in a region where all of your neighbors want you wiped off the map, loves a destabilized nation on it’s boarder. Especially when it will probably end up with an Islamist theocracy ruling it. I’m sure the new rulers will be better than Hamas, right?? It’ll be business as usual once the current regime is toppled. They’ll get along just great.
Lube for you
I agree that there has to be recognition that Israel (or Palestine for that matter) is not going anywhere. Perhaps, those who recognise the resolution of the Palestinians to reclaim what was theirs before 1948 – might even if they want to deny Holocaust just bear in mind the numbers of Jews that have also been driven out of their homes elsewhere in the Middle East (remember that there are now just 7 jews in Baghdad, which use to have one of the largest Jewish populations of any city in the World)
I don’t think that there are any quick or obvious solutions to the prejudice that has been allowed to build up on both sides(and I am pretty sure that there are plenty of Israelis who use unpleasant names for Arabs) – but I am sure that a universal respect for human rights and seeking to engage and encourage the more rational elements on each side is more likley to be of use than the sterile continuation of the blame game. And to be honest I am beginning to think that forums like this are more part of the problem than the solution.
Perhaps the new Zio Wahabi movement identified by PressTV shows that reconciling the irreconcilable is really not that difficult http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/05/06/302121/usled-ziowahhabis-wage-war-on-syria/
Or perhaps Guano has got a new job with PressTV
Resident dissident
You still haven’t told me what Nasrallah is supposed to have said. In any case is verbal support for a breach of international law actually a breach of international law in itself? If so a lot of Israel supporters are in deep shit.
“You might also wish to look at the number of shells Hizbollah have fired against civilian targets – I’ll let you work out whether supplying missiles for such a purpose to an organisation such as Hizbollah with aims that would clearly breach International Law represents a brach of international law.”
Link please unless we are talking about the last outbreak of war. I remember clearly that Hezbollah gave very clear repeated warnings to Israel that they would start firing back if the bombing didn’t stop. Then and only then did they start firing missiles. Obviously if we are talking about a de-facto state of war then different rules apply. I think that you would struggle to find evidence that Hezbollah were deliberately targeting civilians.
You didn’t answer my question by the way. I am finished for the day, I will check back tomorrow if I have time.
“And to be honest I am beginning to think that forums like this are more part of the problem than the solution.”
In total agreement on that one as well. Since I have come to this blog, I seem to notice these incredible blanket statements that pretty much say (to me): The West and imperialism is to blame, always, especially if it’s the US or Israel…
I have challenged people here that consistently seem to complain along the above to provide any solutions that could work, as well as any academically accepted empirical evidence which supports their claims (I seem to get only links to really slanted web sites). Article links which support idealistic notions, without taking into account reality that all sides are not innocent, and no solutions are ever proposed. Too much slanting to either direction is a bad thing, as I feel that most people here have bought into the theories and commentaries presented here, and use these sites to support misguided, hypocritical delusions. Many here (in my opinion) cut out subjects dealing with international relations, political science, conflict (theory and resolutions)… There’s plenty of Western imperialism bashing, but nobody seems to look at other nations interests or their own brand of imperialism. I would propose that many, if not all, who post here are modern day imperialists, or support it by purchasing products and goods made by corporations which utilize cheap labor around the world…. You can refute this by posting your comments via your iPhone…..
lube
not for me but perhaps for you. Just lube your arsehole or prick, whatever you use more often and you will stop worrying whether “forums like this are more part of the problem than the solution”. What is your problem mate, not enough lube??
Lube For You,
“I would propose that many, if not all, who post here are modern day imperialists, or support it by purchasing products and goods made by corporations which utilize cheap labor around the world…. You can refute this by posting your comments via your iPhone…”
What was that you were saying about blanket statements in your post at 9.59pm?
Dearie me.
Resident Dissident,
“And to be honest I am beginning to think that forums like this are more part of the problem than the solution.”
So,would you prefer heavily censored,controlled and illiberal fora which represent only one viewpoint then?
Des Res
‘Or perhaps Guano has got a new job with PressTV’
1/ Prophetic statements are to be banned on this blog without consideration of the source of the prophecy. This comment of Craig’s is as about as ultra-daft-liberal as you can get.
Why? Because actions stem from the heart, you have to check out the message in the heart to see what’s causing the problem. No child will do competitive sport because they will learn failure. Human beings need to become more engaged with religion, not less.
2/ I appreciated Cameron’s joke against Miliband. ‘The weak are a long time in politics.’ When the right shoe, Cameron, goes to meet the left shoe, Putin, will they be walking in the same direction about Syria, or will they just keep going round in circles like now?
3/ Press TV is Shi’a . Garbage in, garbage out. You’d get more sense out talking with your wheelie bin.
Press TV is Shi’a . Garbage in, garbage out. You’d get
morerather less sense outtalking with your wheelie binof the exclusivist writings of almost any faction of Middle Eastern nomads and their mediaeval European successors.FIFY
LOL
Iraq, Syria and the death of the modern Middle East
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/2013567200437919.html
Some quotes;
“They made us cry for the days of Saddam Hussein.”
“Such states, divided upon sectarian lines, would be politically pliable, isolated and enfeebled, and thus utterly incapable of offering a meaningful defence against foreign interventionism in the region. Given the implications for the Middle East, where overt foreign aggression has been a consistent theme for decades, there is reason to believe that this state of affairs has been consciously engineered.”
” Iraq this past April recorded its deadliest month in five years, with over 700 killed in sectarian violence throughout the country.”
“Al-Maliki has brought the country to the abyss… this leaves us with two options: Either civil war or the formation of our own autonomous region.”
“As risible as Solomon’s suggestions seemed at the time, the unfathomable reality is that today just such a situation is occurring – as analysts dispassionately discuss the possibility of an independent Alawite state in Lattakia and the fragmenting of the rest of the country into separate portions for Kurds, Sunnis, Shias, and the many other ethnic and religious groups which once made up the diverse tapestry of modern Syria”
Lebanon does not endorse Israeli overflights (and neither does the UN):
http://www.yalibnan.com/2013/05/05/lebanon-to-file-a-complaint-against-israeli-violations-report/
But Israelis consider they have a g_d – given right, and Michael Herzog explains:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/07/israels-real-target-hezbollah-not-syria
Usual stuff, but check this –
The weapons of concern include many originating in Russia, such as ground-to-air SA17 missiles which could threaten Israel’s freedom of flight in northern Israel and Lebanon
Like to show us the verse in Exodus which applies, Michael?
Jives,
Do you deny that you buy products and services from any corporation that is global? Sure, it’s a blanket statement, but it’s pretty provable.
Time to get that Leveno, Dell, HP, Mac, IBM, Toshiba, Sony, iPad, iPhone, Google phone a moving! However you might want to go buy a hemp belt from the local farmers market. I think they’re now selling open ocean, farmed fish, which are digitally tagged so you know you’re getting the real deal…..
Karel (a conspiracy a day keeps idiocy away):
My problem is that there’s a lot of the typical, one sided BS that goes on here, and nobody seems to take all sides into account. It’s so easy to sit back and place blame to a side and blame all the world’s major problems on it/them. What’s even more annoying is that when I read these complaints, and I challenge individuals here for a solution they never mention anything at all, or worse, they tout the same old ‘party line’ BS….
Other than that, it could just be my genital warts are flaring up!
Komodo,
If it’s Israel’s ‘given right’ to fly over a country and use force as that country fought against them in 2 major conventional conflicts, then what about the other side which for sure feels it’s their ‘given right’ to fire missles, use terrorism attacks, and state their intention is to wipe Israel off the map?
To take a side on this one, well I feel it’s a no win situation. Everyone will use religion to legal scholars to justify their actions. It doesn’t bring any of the actors in the entire area to a peace agreement, or even talks.