The shocking death of Lee Rigby quite naturally appals us all. The intention of the crazed little group who conceived this killing was to make it as horrible as possible in order to scare people.
Horrible, sociopathic violence happens to people from time to time. They have done since Cain killed Abel, metaphorically or literally as you choose. Here is another headline today, just as horrific:
A British soldier has been jailed for stabbing a 10-year-old boy after getting drunk on vodka while serving in Afghanistan.
Both that obscene attack and Michael Adebolajo’s appalling actions are borne out of the same conflict. But it is reasonable to suppose that both these incidents involved people with, for whatever reason, a pre-disposition to murderous violence.
Such people have always been with us and will always be with us, but fortunately they are very, very few. In a nation of 60 million, involvement in violent crime is very low. If you are the victim of criminal violence, the odds over the last decade are about one in twenty thousand that the violence inflicted on you will have any linkage to political or terrorist causation. And the odds that you will suffer any kind of violent attack are thankfully pretty remote.
We should not panic from theatrical violence, just deplore and take sober stock. Sadly if a lunatic on the bus decides to strangle you tomorrow, there are no pre-emptive laws that can stop that. We should stop pretending that the state can always prevent.
Lwtc247 26 May, 2013 – 5:05 pm
There has been a conspiracy already, that is a fact. People have been arrested for conspiring.
You agree and accept the official conspiracy theory, including all the holes and anomalies that have bee furnished by officialdom, until you hear a better one – better being one that comes with lots of supporting documents and indisputable evidence (by then, of course, it would not longer be a theory) rather than one that makes more sense and sounds more plausible, simply because one is from officialdom and the suggested alternative is not?
Oh yes and the area where there is most blood is right next to a low section of single railing that borders the wooded area. Not a bad place discreetly to push a corpse from the wooded area onto the pavement!
Am coming to the view that this incident has nothing really to do with Islam, or the clash of civilisations, or any of that stuff.
Can someone please summarise as *bullet-points* the various anomalies and inconsistencies identified in this case so far? These threads turn into impossible quagmires after 2 or 3 pages…
Thanks,
M.
“Next subject please Craig. This story has far exceeded its sell-by date.”
What’s this? “Move along, nothing to see here”? The ‘next subject’ has been up for a while now.
This thread is more topical, interesting and therefore quite popular and has certainly not exceeded anything. So, what’s this problem you’re having? No one is forcing you to visit the site, click this link and read these comments… are they?
“Can someone please summarise as *bullet-points* the various anomalies and inconsistencies identified in this case so far? ”
* Conspiracists have allowed themselves to be whipped up into such a state of paranoia that all such events are classed as being “false flag” before the dust has even settled.
* Once it’s been decided that an event is “false flag” the hunt for “evidence” begins.
For this to have been faked:-
* All potential witnesses would have had to been removed from the area and replaced with willing actors.
* Damaged car brought in on low loader and placed in position unseen by anybody.
* Body and other evidence again placed without anyone noticing.
* Entire life history of Drummer Rigby and perpetrators fabricated.
-and so on.
When you tell a lie, it is always best to keep as close to the truth as possible, Kempe. We are not reverse-engineering a theory based upon one microcosm, but rather see parallels in other instances which give us pause, in this one. Too many frauds have been committed against the public trust for us to trust the purveyors blindly.
Kempe: if you’re content with the official account would you care to state your case? Have you looked at the evidence at all? Which bits clinched it for you?
Myself, I’d suggest that the car was badly damaged because it hit the wall (and possibly the victim at the same time), not one of the posts. There are no tyre-marks because the car was neither braking nor accelerating nor turning much as it crossed the pavement, and after the impact it moved slowly to its final position — a few feet away from the impact site, as the occupants needed to get to the man they’d hit. Some pictures had no blood visible because of a media policy of removing gory details from photos used in certain contexts.
What is suspicious to me is the filmed interview: it beggars belief that a passer-by would calmly stand six feet away from a blood-soaked madman armed with two knives and start arsing around with a smartphone. Plus: Nick Robinson’s obedient remark about ‘men of Muslim appearance’ is a dead giveaway: Robinson is wholly contemptible; but he’s had the education and the media experience to know that ‘Muslim appearance’ is neither a meaningful nor an allowable thing to say. The average witness would have said that the two men were of African or Afro-Caribbean appearance — therefore we can tell that *someone* wanted this crime to be seen one way rather than another right from the first. Robinson, of course, knows when to do what he’s told: his later ‘apology’ meant nothing, as his report had done its job by then.
M.
“What is suspicious to me is the filmed interview: it beggars belief that a passer-by would calmly stand six feet away from a blood-soaked madman armed with two knives and start arsing around with a smartphone.”
Well quite, it’s not the sort of thing you’d write into a script if you were staging such an event. They were clearly seeking martyrdom, death by cop, which is why they were hanging around waiting for the armed response team to turn up rather than legging it. Truth is often stranger than fiction.
None of the so-called evidence that this was a false flag is convincing.
…On the other hand, there is one picture I’ve seen which suggests that the car hit the post furthest from the road, but with the post impacting not far away from the car’s left hand edge, i.e. the shell crumpled up but the solid engine block missed hitting the post.
Since the same shot also shows a crazed and depressed windscreen on the driver’s side, I’m wondering if the victim was hit when the car was some distance back from the posts, and that he first went hard into the windscreen before being thrown forward into the area under the trees where the trail of blood seems to begin. The car would by then have been slowing down, and would have hit the post accidentally but at relatively low speed.
M.
Move along silly bloggers
There’s nothing to see
No bend in a lamp-post
No scars on a tree
No skids on the pavement
No head on the ground
No pics on the net from the filming crowd
In fact nothing for Conspiracists at all
What happened was simply what you’ve been told
: “What is suspicious to me is the filmed interview: it beggars
: belief that a passer-by would calmly stand six feet away from
: a blood-soaked madman armed with two knives and start arsing
: around with a smartphone.”
: Well quite, it’s not the sort of thing you’d write into a
: script if you were staging such an event.
Umm, well; in a world where every wannabe Jihadi leaves a website and/or a video film that details his whys and wherefores, I find it hard to believe that these two decided to rely on there being some unknown stranger with a suitable phone and a suitable personality conveniently on-site in whatever window of filming opportunity there was going to be before the armed police arrived…
I’m sure I can’t be the only rational person to think that this bit of the story stinks to heaven. Who held the camera? Do we know?
Personally, if I were ‘staging’ this event, I wouldn’t be able to think of a quicker or more ‘obviously authentic’ way of getting paralyzingly powerful footage online than to have a supposed ‘citizen journalist’ do it…
M.
Kempe,
Do you find it remotely interesting that all the initial media imagery (both video and stills) appears to have been provided by a single professional photographer who presumably has been security cleared (judging by his portfolio and the subjects) and has previously provided pro-Zionist/anti-Islam propaganda to The Sun.
He also may (this is a bit is a punt on my part) have been a fellow bus passenger with one of the main characters in the *bizarre* piece of street theatre which he filmed. He then fails to mention any of the events he witnessed on Twitter but can be bothered to reTweet a widely published bogus eye-witness account describing beheadings etc.
Do you find it odd that a series of events leading up to the appearance of the body in the road, provided by the media, must have unfolded over at least a couple of minutes but there is not one single image available to confirm any of it? Most eyewitness start by saying “it looked like there had been accident” etc., nobody talks about cars mounting pavements and mowing people down etc. apart from those that then go on to make a provably false claims.
We have a professional photographer who works for the News media on a bus that is presumably involved in a major incident right from the beginning – after all that’s why the bus is stopped right – but he doesn’t film anything until well into the incident? When we see his video, it looks very much like the position has been pre-arranged (perfect framing, nice camera work, smooth panning etc.) and seeing the suspect hesitate when he walks back to the car, look for his mark on the ground, and the slight alteration of direction simply adds to the whole feel of watching something that is staged and rehearsed.
There are lots of problems with the story but the only verifiable information we have comes from images and video provided by a ‘passing member of the public’ who just happens to be a professional photographer working for the MSM and who is also credited with images that must have been obtained from a police helicopter. That’s the start, work out from there.
Kibo Noh 27 May, 2013 – 6:08 pm
Genius. 🙂
Any links to the professional photographer story? The Sun and ITV both claim the footage they obtained (probably bought) came from members of the public.
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/sun-and-itv-defend-public-interest-broadcasting-woolwich-terror-video-which-sky-news-judged-too
There are eye-witness accounts of Rigby being run down by the car and body being dragged into the road afterwards.
Another observation; the size of the onlooking crowd does not grow. Small crowds attract attention, causing more people to join and the crowd should get larger, word would quickly spread and more people would turn up. This does not appear to happen.
Traffic can clearly be seen moving freely on the other roads without hesitation or pausing, i.e. the blocked road does not seem to be causing any undue traffic congestion in the area and during this 25 minutes on a busy London road we do not see one single bicycle or motorcycle arrive upon the scene. It looks like access to the area was controlled in some way.
While the incident was unfolding and before the police arrived there were news reports of an incident near the barracks, is it realistic that no one from the barracks (i.e. soldiers) went out to the scene? Is it the dog that did not bark?
“Any links to the professional photographer story?”
The ITN video copyright owner is Pixel8000 (aka photo journalist Gavin Rodgers). Use google.
Most of the MSM images are accredited to ‘Pixel’, ‘Pixel8000’ or directly to Gavin Rodgers. He must have done well out of it, and seems to have managed to wangle a ride in a police helicopter later on, or that could just be an error (they got so used to crediting him that they just slipped up that time).
The Sun has also previously used Gavin Rodgers work on Islamic terrorist related items.
No smoking gun of course, but I think I can see a cartridge shell or two lying around.
“The Sun and ITV both claim the footage they obtained (probably bought) came from members of the public.”
Yes, I can confirm that professional MSM photo-journalist Gavin Rodgers is a member of the public.
“Yes, I can confirm that professional MSM photo-journalist Gavin Rodgers is a member of the public.”
I can also confirm that Gavin Rodgers had left his native Finchley that day to do a spot of sight-seeing and shopping in trendy and exclusive Woolwich, and to take a pleasant ride on the ferry later. $uch a $hame his day out on the bu$ wa$ $o ruined by unfor$een terrori$t event$.
Sole director of Pixel 8000 Ltd. Not very lucrative according to this.
http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07383733
http://gavinrodgers.photoshelter.com/gallery/pascoe-watson-baby/G0000zBrl_EeNVic/
Pascoe Watson was political editor of the Sun and is now at Portland Communications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pascoe-Watson
Portland. See Campbell. Allan worked for B.Liar at No 10.
What, no one has found the grassy knoll or the book depository in Woolwich – but we do appear to have collected a bad poet and Mary has found another Jewish bloodline.
“Muslim bombers off our streets”.
However the forces of reaction fanning the flames of hate, are not done yet, hence the oldest trick in the book:
Here is a recap for those reading the story for the first time:
For comic relief:
Obviously they are getting tried of fire bombing and kicking the fuck out of the Muslims. all that going around; getting tanked-up on booze, and then engaging in intimidation and coercion of the “Man Fridays”.
The whole stinking affair is getting more and more smelly by the minute. Billy fourteen pints droning on about arming the “rebels” ie the real terrorists in Syria; to get Assad to come to negotiations. The same tosspot not so long ago was talking about: Assad must go! Fact that Syrians en mass have started fighting the fucking killers and rapists sent in by the Saudi and Qatari pederasts, and are wresting their country back is interpreted as the lack of fire power of the “rebels” by Billy and his few mates.
That’s too facile for your RD. Do you find synchronicity to be a magical art; mysterious and anti-science? This is more like a magician complete with misdirection and prestidigitation, no?
While incredulous commentators are casting doubt over very ordinary details of the aftermath of this killing, and fomenting suspicions of an utterly incredible false-flag operation, no one seems willing to conceive of the possibility that Islamists and/or SS are posting comments here to spread FUD.
The Islamists obviously don’t want the public to wake up to their agenda and the SS don’t want the public to discover the unlawful strategies they use to defend the establishment. I wonder if the govt is just pretending to be clueless.
In any case, Jesuit Atheist (a red herring by any other name), is doing a fine job.
Jesuit Atheist – thanks for your efforts on this, quite intriguing.
Is there not also a surprising lack of masive police overkill in terms of response here? Normally these days when there is even a sniff of terrorism we are treated to police swamping the neighbourhood in huge numbers, with convoys of vans, patrol cars, armed police, dogs, and bobbies and scene-of-crime tape everywhere. And the media luxuriate in showing us the extent of it. So far, all I’ve seen is those cops shouting ‘move back’ and a handful of others. The whole scene feels strangely constricted as if it had been shot through a letterbox, and only a few camera angles allowed. This, in my view, contributes to the strange feeling of unreality that people are beginning to pick up on.
The same thing is true of Boston, Jemand. Not every circumstance is suspect, but certain events which are facilitated by someone, seem to have flecks of bullshit when security services have been associated.
Troughers, contd. No wonder the HoC is in ‘recess’ so often.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/27/mps-declare-income-other-jobs
Imagine paying to hear Gordon Brown speak!
~~~
Help4Heroes is not accepting donations from EDL. They are being returned.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/27/help-for-heroes-english-defence-league
Having checked the ITV coverage I see no byline to Pixel8000 or Gavin Rodgers just footage from some local resident taken on a smart phone.
If there was no collision, nobody run down then a pre-damaged car must’ve been brought to the location, manhandled into position and the fake blood and oil poured onto the pavement, an operation which would’ve taken the best part of half an hour if not longer and yet nobody saw it despite it happening on a busy road in one of the most heavily populated cities in europe.
Odd that.
King of Welsh Noir. Mrs May said yesterday that >500 personnel in the police and the security services were working on the Woolwich case.
Before the HoC goes off again the SIS are reporting to the Intelligence and Security Committee this week on what they knew. I don’t suppose the proceedings will be reported.
I see Blears there, the well known second home profiteer.
http://isc.independent.gov.uk/committee-members
SALFORD MP HAZEL BLEARS SECOND HOME EXPENSES SCANDAL
Star date: 13th May 2013
http://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=1815
I despise nearly all of the occupants of the green benches with a few exceptions such as Paul Flynn.
“The odd almost disinterested actions of passers-by has been attributed to the constant use of this area over many years, for filming of TV’s ‘The Bill’ cop soap.”
That may clear up what I thought was one of the strangest aspects.
But there are others.