The shocking death of Lee Rigby quite naturally appals us all. The intention of the crazed little group who conceived this killing was to make it as horrible as possible in order to scare people.
Horrible, sociopathic violence happens to people from time to time. They have done since Cain killed Abel, metaphorically or literally as you choose. Here is another headline today, just as horrific:
A British soldier has been jailed for stabbing a 10-year-old boy after getting drunk on vodka while serving in Afghanistan.
Both that obscene attack and Michael Adebolajo’s appalling actions are borne out of the same conflict. But it is reasonable to suppose that both these incidents involved people with, for whatever reason, a pre-disposition to murderous violence.
Such people have always been with us and will always be with us, but fortunately they are very, very few. In a nation of 60 million, involvement in violent crime is very low. If you are the victim of criminal violence, the odds over the last decade are about one in twenty thousand that the violence inflicted on you will have any linkage to political or terrorist causation. And the odds that you will suffer any kind of violent attack are thankfully pretty remote.
We should not panic from theatrical violence, just deplore and take sober stock. Sadly if a lunatic on the bus decides to strangle you tomorrow, there are no pre-emptive laws that can stop that. We should stop pretending that the state can always prevent.
Dreoilin to April Showers, she of the thin skin :
“I’ve been intending to say that to you for months. Habbabkuk simply served as a reminder”
———–
My friends having checked, I do believe that Dreoilin did already say exactly that to the then Mary several months ago.
Mary must be getting a little forgetful, poor dear. Or perhaps she just won’t take well-meaning advice.
“Its tough in a war, but to be expected and there is more to come with our increasing meddling in others affairs.”
From the tone of that, one could almost get the impression that Nevermind (for it was he) is looking forward to it.
I’d of course be happy to hear Nevermind assure us that I’m wrong and that he’s not.
RD.
Yeah. I just thought about it.
If I came over as patronising, self-righteous and intellectually superior then you have my apology. What I was trying to express was anger.
Anger at a state which dresses up a habit of conquest and plunder in fine words of democracy and humanitarian intervention.
Anger at a state that sees nothing wrong with putting up a statue to Bomber Harris, a self proclaimed, industrial scale terrorist.
And anger at henchmen like yourself who swallow everything the state tells you as inevitably correct (despite numerous examples of the opposite being the norm), who seek to derail genuine attempts to understand what is really going on and who even bring their wife and kids into our argument.
What is there not to be angry about in all that?
Resident Dissident, you are way way beyond contempt.
The Old Biddy snorts :
“PS I have not asked for style lessons nor need any additional ones from the resident troll. I will continue in my own fashion so tough.”
——–
So there (stamps her little foot)!
You may not have asked for style lessons, but you certainly need to take some.
But by all means carry on, making it difficult to spot what is you and what is quotation : makes it easier for you to deny you said something, doesn’t it.
“But I think to draw the conclusion your view requires – that a serving soldier was intentionally murdered by fake terrorists working for The Establishment (or whoever) who were then shot by the same Establishment(or whoever) after a public clusterfuck, is a portrait of unreality too far. And that’s my view. Problem?”
I don’t get how you can work so much into what I have said. All I have done is highlight some weird stuff and anomalies that anyone can check and you keep harking on about me promoting a ‘conspiracy theory’, as if ridiculing salient talking points without contributing is somehow a good thing. If you can explain some of the anomalies and deliberate mis-reporting then please do so.
@ Komodo :
I have enjoyed several of your posts recently (be careful – you will be expelled from the Egregiousness of Eminences of you carry on like that), but O must take issue with you when you say :
“Still, 9/11 was personally ordered by George Bush and WW2 was started by George Formby on behalf of the Rothschilds. Sure.”
As any fule no, George Formby was the Crimean War. WW2 was started by Gracie Fields and Vera Lynn (the mistress of Amschel Rothschild, deceased), working in conjunction with an unemployed artist who was being blackmailed by Mossad (founded 1950).
Hope that helps, and please get your facts right in future!
This speculation that there is something ‘odd’ about the killing, that it was staged, simply serves to discredit the cause of those who challenge official narratives.
Take the claim that there isn’t much blood in evidence. What is that supposed to mean? That the guy isn’t really dead? That he is acting and the two assailants are only pretending to hack at him with the knife and cleaver? What about when they mounted the pavement in the car and ran him over? Was that staged? Where is he now? Pretending to be dead in a morgue? Did the police fire blanks? Are the hospital staff and soldiers from Woolwich barracks in on the plot? If the Shadowy Cabal were able to choreograph such an extravagant production, why couldn’t they order a couple of extra pints of stage blood? This is nuts. The perp talking to camera was wearing a black jacket and the lighting wasn’t good. There was no way of telling how much blood was on it.
No, the sky has not fallen and yes, there are lunatics who would strangle the bystander on the proverbial Clapham bus.
However, the information available to date would suggest, firstly, that these men were not mentally ill, but were likely to have seen themselves as ideologically-driven political soldiers in pursuit of what they view as Jihad. It may well be that they are as sane as, say, Anders Breivik.
All kinds of shenanigans occur, of course, and over the years the secret state has got up to all of these. But it seems to me that the reflexive tendency of some of those who post here – and sadly, that of certain sections of the Left in general – is to attempt to minimise, to not see the elephant in the sitting-room, to engage in ever-more complex apologetics and denial. This is not doing people who happen to be Muslim in Britain any favours, in my opinion.
What we need is a firm and united Left-wing activist commitment to vigorously and systemically combat all forms of Far Right activity in this country – and that must include the totalitarian ideology that is Islamism. I am not talking about allegedly compromised NGOs like ‘Prevent’ of the ‘Quilliam Foundation’, I am talking about those who believe in economic justice re-building organisational links with people and structures within the Muslim communities in a manner akin to, say, ‘Rock Against Racism’ (?’Rock Against Islamism’, anyone?) and what used to be the trade unions, updated versions of the various workers’ associations and so on, and advocating unity on economic, not religious or ‘racial’ grounds. Muslims need to smash Islamism from within – a la Woody Guthrie’s famous guitar.
What we see today is the outcome of 35 years of hard work, propaganda and grasroots activism on the part of Islamists, backed by enormous amounts – trillions – of Saudi/UAE money. Now, when we see the same sorts of crimes being committed in, say, Syria/Libya by (USA/UK-supported in their usual tactical alliance with these Far Right paramilitary death squad) Islamists and then the same machete horror on the streets of London, ought we not see the obvious link? It will be very difficult, but at least we can try to stop this Far Right ideology from having free rein over our youngsters. First step: Cut off all Saudi/UAE funding to all community/religious groups and ban Islamist preachers from entering the UK. Of course, the former will not happen, because of the strategic alliance b/w the UK and Saudi Arabia/UAE and the periodic tactical geopolitical alliances b/w the UK and the Saudi/UAE-sponsored Islamist storm-troopers.
Mod. ‘Habbabkuk’ needs reining in. I do not like being referred to as ‘The Old Biddy’ the latest appellation for me. He seems to have acquired some extra cockiness and others too are being addressed rudely and having their posts trashed. Why is he tolerated? I often think about those who come here to read the blog and what they must think. He contributes nothing of course.
You’re not supposed to talk about links between this attack and what’s going on with British foreign policy.
So says Boris Johnson and many other of our leaders and opinion formers.
These were simply bad men doing bad stuff, as happens any day of the week down south London way.
This bloke thinks differently:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-british-foreign-policy-role
Did anyone know that UK drone testing, including that for the new Watchkeeper, is being carried out at a small private airport at Aberporth, Wales? I did not.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/06/welsh-airfield-drones
I learnt this from listening to Uma Sims of the Cardiff PSC being interviewed by a BBC local radio presenter called Jason Mohammad.
12.34 minutes into the programme.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01sjnhp/Jason_Mohammad_24_05_2013/
He should be ashamed. His father’s countrymen and women and their children are being shredded by the Hellfire missiles sent down from these machines used for very evil purposes. They do of course have peaceful uses like aerial surveys of forests to detect tree disease.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Mohammad
Anyway well done to Uma Sims for holding her ground throughout and for not allowing him to use the Woolwich murder as anti Muslim propaganda.
We also learnt that the MOD cooperate with Israel in this testing.
Mr Ray Mann who owns the ex WW11 airfield is a big ideas man.
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-11/05/drones-wales
http://conferences.theiet.org/uav/programme/index.cfm
“Mod. ‘Habbabkuk’ needs reining in. I do not like being referred to as ‘The Old Biddy’ the latest appellation for me. He seems to have acquired some extra cockiness and others too are being addressed rudely and having their posts trashed. Why is he tolerated? I often think about those who come here to read the blog and what they must think. He contributes nothing of course.”
————–
Well, some posts do get a reaction from you, don’t they. What a pity you don’t ever react to legitimate questions arising out of your posts.
Anyway, I shan’t get into a long discussion with you – as you once wrote, you don’t get into discussions.
Just a couple of points though : all made before (some also by others, by the way)but I live in hope that you might one day take some of them on board.
1/. You may think otherwise, but this is not your blog. You and I are both guests and you have no special status. And if you put up (which you do several times a day) then you have to put up with it as well;
2/. If a post is robust enough, it will resist any amount of what you call “trashing”;
3/. “The Old Biddy” suits you very well – you are old(ish) and you are always clucking away. If you had any sense of proportion or self-awareness you would understand that this is nothing compared to the dirt you dish out all day long, whether to figures in the public sphere or to those who dare to question you on this blog. Not to mention the sly insinuations about people’s marital status, Jewishness and so on and labelling people as trolls;
4/. as far as public perceptions of this blog are concerned, I’m sure it will survive me. After all, it has survived you and you’ve been around rather longer than I have.
PS – I shall not threaten to leave this blog unless you are banned.
I wonder what the PIA ‘plane event over Manchester/Stansted will turn out to be. ‘Simple’ criminality, two men getting aggressive on a ‘plane, or more of the same Jihadist activity? Let’s wait and see.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/may/24/pakistan-aircraft-stansted-video
April Showers re Habba “He contributes nothing of course.” Yes, but better to have a Madoff’s wife (typically lamenting to Judge Chin “I am having to pay for my husbands security out of my own funds” and was laughed out of court!!) in-house then go looking for one in the sayanims corner at HuffPo?!
In relation to Craig’s comment about “theatrical violence”, of course that very much is the aim. Jihadism/Islamism is a thoroughly postmodern ideology, obsessed with the spectacle as propaganda instrument. If one thinks of all those atrocities commited by Jihadists in Syria that are on youtube/Twitter. etc. deliberately for maximal dissemination, it’s the same phenomenon. Indeed, it seems to draw hugely on Hollywood imagery of violent death, horror, etc. – think of the ‘Texas Chainsaw Massacre’ genre and the ‘Silence of the Lambs’, ‘The Walking Dead’ and so on. It is illustrative of those who lack imagination wrt both ideology and imagery. Plagiarism is all they can achieve. Islamism: A dead end.
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
24 May, 2013 – 5:42 pm
Says to me:
“Yes, thank you for that insight.”
“You may however (just about) recall that you wrote that there were “reasons” – and then, “main reasons” why the killing took place and you gave pne “main reason”.”
“You may also (just about) recall that I asked you what the other “reasons”/”main reasons” were.”
Telling lies again HB.
I never mentioned “other reasons” or” main reasons” even though you use quotation marks you merely made that up.
What I said was:
“There are no excuses for these actions but there are reasons, perhaps you don’t understand that.”
Find at:
doug scorgie
23 May, 2013 – 8:18 pm
Ok, so if this act was a response to our foreign policy, do we get something nice in return for our support of jihadists in Libya, Syria, etc.?
I think the ‘blood’ angle is a red herring because there is clearly blood on the victim and on the ground in front of the car, however it is odd that there are no images which clearly show the blood in front of the car.
The only image available showing the front of the car does not show any blood, this does not of course mean there is none, but due to lighting it appears there is none but you can just make out a slight sheen on the pavement. Also, in the video you can not see any blood, even though the area of pavement is clearly visible. Again, I say it’s a very convenient spot the attacker chose for his interview.
There were dozens of people witnessing the event and many were filming it and yet there are still no additional pictures or videos, particularly of the pool of blood in front of the car taken from ground level.
Also on youtube a video went up within hours claiming there was no blood etc. Seemed way too premature for that argument to be taking place, why were people not simply waiting for additional images before jumping to conclusion? (hint: because there are still none 3 days later?), maybe promoting the no-blood angle is all mis-direction.
The Guardian Group have a new director. Their emphasis is on digital.
O2’s Ronan Dunne joins GMG board
Arif Durrani, 24 May 2013, 10:32am
‘Guardian Media Group has appointed Ronan Dunne, chief executive of Telefónica UK (O2), as a non-executive director as the publishing group continues to pursue its digital-first strategy, and one that is increasingly focused on the mobile space.
Dunne has been leader of the telecoms giant since April 2008. Prior to this he was chief financial officer and head of finance, having joined O2 before its demerger from BT in 2001.
He is also chairman of Tesco Mobile, the UK’s largest mobile virtual network operator, a joint venture between Tesco and O2. During his career, he has held senior financial positions in the banking and the corporate sectors.[..]
Dunne said: “The media sector is changing, which presents enormous opportunity as the true potential of digital services and interaction becomes a reality.”
Also joining Guardian Media Group as non-executive director is John Paton, chief executive of Digital First Media.
Digital First Media, which operates Digital First Ventures, MediaNews Group and Journal Register Company, has print and online divisions across the US, Canada and Europe.
Paton oversees the operation of more than 800 digital and print products in 18 states across the US, serving 61.5 million customers per month.’
http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/News/MostEmailed/1183779/O2s-Ronan-Dunne-joins-GMG-board/
April Showers @ 7:12 “Did anyone know that UK drone testing, including that for the new Watchkeeper, is being carried out at a small private airport at Aberporth, Wales? I did not.”
Yes I did.
I mentioned the drones here.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/03/nuclear-nightmare/comment-page-8/#comment-402028
“‘Rock againt Islamism’, anyone?”
Imagine trying to get that one off the ground at your average student union..
“Ok, so if this act was a response to our foreign policy, do we get something nice in return for our support of jihadists in Libya, Syria, etc.?” Giles.
Unfortunately not. It’s a monster that bites everything around it, except Saudi Arabia /UAE (by mutual agreement, though their time will come too; right now, the Jihadists need them too much), including the hand that (stupidly) feeds it. The UK’s foreign policy is of relevance – eg. supporting Jihadism where it suits our perceived geopolitical interests – but the ideology is opposed to anything that is not Islamist and it defines its area based on a puerile pseudo-historical fantasy.
The Metro’s first 7 pages were dedicated to this murder and the terrorist rhetoric whipped up around it. Buried in the later pages, in a two by two column was the story of a guy who had murdered 4 and attempted the murder of 3 more in various attacks, over a period of some time, using grenades and handguns. I never heard anything about these murders.
Maybe someone has mentioned this already, but why did I automatically think of the heart-eating monster in Syria of last week when this barbaric event in Woolwich happened? Along with Saudi Arabia and Qatar, we created this in Syria, so why are we so appalled when we see it on our streets?
As least the sicko who knifed Lee Rigby apologised to a woman. When it comes to drone strikes and Israeli target practice “we” commit uni-sex atrocities!
Still stalking your victim here, maybe you would like to fess up as to who your last cyber victim was, Habby.
Stop being such a prick and either participate, or fuck the hell off Havenocock. Simple choices for simple men.
Sofia, please get him a broadband connection for his shed, he’s a bit over worked and can do with some extra cache.
Habbakack for nonchalance, nonentity and mediocrity
You must understand by now that you are our pet, so fess up chum.
@ Scourge (20h16)
Contrary to your denial, you did use the words “reasons” and “main reasons”. Here is what you wrote on the Yes Scotland meeting Edinburgh thread at 15h17 οn 23 May :
“There are no excuses for what happened in Woolwich but, of you think carefully,there are reasons and one of the main reasons is British foreign policy”
This establishes that you used the words “reasons” and “main reasons”.
Why do you claim that you didn’t?
PS – still waiting for your thoughts on what those “reasons” and “main reasons” might have been.
Thank you.
I didn’t see any of the News on Wednesday evening. I only read second hand accounts very late. and thought wtf.
On Thursday morning, I saw what the media and politicians had done with it, and immediately felt so ill, that I literally threw up, something I haven’t done in years. Maybe the fish was a bit off, or maybe the guts of my soul had been hit by a massive psychological attack.
I then tried to make some sense of it all, and tried to analyse myself, as well as other people’s analyses of what actually happened. Yet still, I do not know, apart from what is undeniably true.
Whatever, the origins and causes of the event on Wednesday afternoon, the behaviour of the media and the politicians has been completely disgraceful. It was as if they were doing their utmost to incite racial violence on a mass scale.
My wife went swimming in the morning, and met an elderly lady, for the first time, who just wanted someone to talk to. She asked my wife to give her a hug, as if to reconfirm to herself, that there were still some normal human beings left.
This guy says it as well as anyone. I’ve come across him before. Very few people actually do this kind of thing. I can think of less than 10. He’s very good. A couple of years ago, when he started doing it, he worked out how to make himself from second hand odds and sods, a very cheap teleprompter. Some people don’t need them, but then when you find out their background, they have been a professional stand up comedian or whatever for years – and they can do it very effectively live and straight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-OUbnFKyFM
Tony
I note with interest that Nevermind, despite rambling on for several lines, has not taken the opportunity to tell us that my impression that he’s rather looking forward to further events like Woolwich is completely unfounded.
That’s rather revealing, isn’t it.
“There was clearly blood on his hands. His hands were covered in it. But both their clothes (and the other guy had a beige coat on) had singularly little blood for two guys who had purportedly just cut someone’s carotid arteries. Their coats should have been plastered with it! It is odd.”
Actually no. I’ve cut quite a few jugulars in my time and never got a bit of blood on my clothes, very little on my hands either. It doesn’t go squirting everywhere, just sort of gushes a bit.
“I’ve cut quite a few jugulars in my time…” Fred.
Unique pub chat-up line?
I assume (I hope) you’re talking chickens or sheep? 🙂