Here in Ghana people are stunned by the announcement that a bond of £3,000 will have to be submitted by visa applicants to the UK, redeemable on return.
It is unpleasant for a nation to be singled out as comprised of particularly untrustworthy individuals against whom special measures are needed. Theresa May appears quite deliberately to be singling out countries whose citizens are normally black or brown – India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Ghana and Nigeria. They are all citizens with extremely close ties to the UK. For example, all of those countries supplied large numbers of men to British armed forces in two World Wars; with little resulting gratitude.
The true level of Britain’s regard for the Commonwealth is disclosed in all its arrogance; citizenship of the Commonwealth countries with the longest link to the UK will become a positive disadvantage in visa application. Israeli settlers living in Occupied Palestine on the West Bank, incidentally, will still be allowed to enter the UK without any visa at all, despite membership of neither Commonwealth nor EU. Paradoxical, isn’t it?
The measure shows the arrogant British disdain for these countries – of which India pre-eminently but also Ghana are fast growing and important trading partners. Undoubtedly Ghana will retaliate with measures which hurt British businesses; many of my good friends are senior Ghanaian politicians, and they are all furious. The rhetoric the British employ about transformation from colonial status to a modern partnership of equals is exposed for the tissue of lies it has always been. This is a straightforward racist measure, aimed at securing the racist vote to the Tories.
Not does it make any sense. If you are intending to enter the UK under false pretences, and have the intent illegally to settle and start a new life there, then £3,000 is scarcely a deterrent given the substantial economic gains you intend to make over the long period you intend to stay. It will rather seem a good investment; people will find the money. The people it will deter are those who never intended to overstay. The extra cash upfront, to the businessman for a business trip, for the student coming to study, for the tourist will drive them to go elsewhere, to the UK’s net loss.
More cruelly it will deter decent middle class people from coming to see grandchildren in the holidays, from going to the niece’s wedding, from going to graduation. Those things will become the prerogative of the wealthy, those with plenty of cash to spare.
This does nothing to deter illegal immigration. It merely demonstrates populist racism, demonstrates contempt for some of the UK’s best-disposed friends, and demonstrates that the government thinks the right to travel is only for the rich. It is contemptible.
I’m sorry to hear that Craig. As Jives said, you probably need a good rest. I’m assuming you have a laptop (which I shouldn’t of course …) but the advantage is that it can be used with one’s feet up on the bed.
Beannacht ort agus ar do chos!
“Sound as if you need to exercise a little more, Jives. It’s very good for you and the Revolution, when it comes, will need people in top physical form.”
LOFL! They say part of what makes jokes funny is the ring of truth! (Not a jibe at Jives, just saying)
Btw Habby it wasn’t just the second sentence. He managed to make all his posts so convoluted as to render them completely unintelligible. I do wonder though why he’s wasting time here instead of taking it to litigation…..or at least starting a petition. One thing’s for sure, given my sharp detective skills, he’s definitely not a lawyer.
As hard-hitting the new proposal is, it not against the law.
IF YOU THINK ITS ONLY THE LAW THAT IS AN ASS, THINK AGAIN!
“In which case, Macky, you would presumably wish to abolish all visa requirements by all states on the grounds that some entrants are required to have a visa and others aren’t?”
How does that follow ?! I thought we were discussing a proposed discriminatory FINANCIAL obstacle to be selectively applied to some people but not others; rather different to the criteria used to decide normal visa requirements; the cash-bond is rather of a different nature & intent altogether !
As you would say, you really don’t seem to following, do you. Never mind.
Macky, Jives & Jon – thanks
“In which case, Macky, you would presumably wish to abolish all visa requirements by all states on the grounds that some entrants are required to have a visa and others aren’t?”
What a good idea. We could abolish visas and passports and things, abolish borders. The world could be one big happy family without all the us and them. Think of the money we would save. Just let people come and go as they wish, don’t see why not.
Fred, finally a resounding sane rational insight. That in this weird world we live in would be called lateral.
“Unionist propaganda frenzy is stepped up in Scotland as Daily Mail is given away in selected areas of the country with purchases of local-newspapers belonging to local-newspaper monopoly (and financially stricken) Johnston Press of ‘Scotsman’ infamy. Needless to say the free ‘Jockified’ edition of the Mail is packed with preposterous scaremongering concerning Independence and character assassination of Scottish National Party figures. The people aren’t buying it, literally.”
I think the people have a right to be informed and the SNP is getting quite a reputation for just making it up as they go along.
How do they stand on Europe this Week? How about NATO?
They haven’t changed their minds about Trident have they?
Well I must that little tag-team exchange has put the mockers on further debate for a time; numbed, stunned and in disbelief as we are, whilst the paradoxes, inconsistencies, sham arguments and tragically inept sarcasm rattle around and then sink without trace. Habbaduk erects a strawman attributing it to Macky, Villager collapses prostrate before it and Fred is summoned to try embellish it in his inimitable but woeful style, arriving after it has already been put to the flame and is blown to the four winds.
Jon:
“If you haven’t seen it, I have added some personal thoughts on moderation on the UN thread (if you wish to discuss, please do so there).”
Maybe i’m misreading your suggestion, but are you actually (as in an action) there to ‘discuss’ on the other thread?
Still not a peep on sock-puppets. In the spirit of anarchy, and of what Fred said earlier about freedom (what’s in a name?), i’d be very relaxed about people posting a chosen name on any single thread and commit no more continuity. That way there’ll be no way to allow for commenters to dig up useless history although there’ll be a lot more speculation of socks and gloves, suspect.
Or is it that Sophie Habbercake/Kibo Noh/David are being ignored because of their support to Mary and being anti-Habbabkuk, which of course for all the racist calls here would just be another form of discrimination. My mind is dealing with some difficult questions relating to bias and objectivity, particularly at this gridlock of a crossroads the whole movement of the blog reached. I ask this fundamental question in the spirit of freedom, healthy skepticism and a need to understand how life works here. I hope you don’t mind my asking but thus far even an observation leave alone a comment from you has been rather mystifyingly conspicuous by its absence.
I can sniff out smelly socks but i can’t read minds.
“I can sniff out smelly socks but i can’t read minds.”
Oh dear Villager, it sounds like you’ve been sniffing solvents rather than socks !!
Cryptonym, self projection of your herd mentality, perhaps?
My agreement is profoundly with Fred, someone we all know you long have a bias against. At least i can understand his English with crystal-clear-clarity (goes for Habby too) than your flowery prosaic attempts. And you’re still calling Habby names — get a move on if you respect this blog, and stop disgracing it and yourself.
Not happy with corporate/government surveillance? Here’s a nice page presenting the alternatives to corporate software and services:
http://prism-break.org/
Personally, I completed the move to open source operating system (ubuntu) earlier this year. No more windows!
“Villager collapses prostrate ”
I collapse prostrate to Nature, my ‘God’ and this marvellous blue planet, Earth. Nature made all the races –its a colourful world. But man has made all the Nation-states and religions. They are all in the psychological structure of your head.
Conspiracy theory?
The BBC doing the backing up as per usual.
‘Several hundred people earlier took to the streets of Pretoria in protest against Mr Obama’s foreign policy.
However, the BBC’s James Copnall in the city says Mr Obama does have wide support in South Africa.’
Barack Obama in South Africa amid vigils for Mandela
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23094361
~~
Welcome home Craig. You will be sorry to be back unless you have already been watching from afar. Shame about your heel.
Villager: you are overdoing it on the ‘sock puppets’. Everyone else knows that ‘Sofia’ was a joke.
James Copnall has been doing sterling work holding the fort in South Sudan!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/james-copnall
His twitter advertises his new book. https://twitter.com/JamesCopnall
A Poisonous Thorn in Our Hearts: Sudan and South Sudan’s Bitter and Incomplete Divorce – to be released
“it sounds like you’ve been sniffing solvents”
Santa Maria Novella’s Patchouli or Tabac Tuscana…..not for Little Big Mac plebs like you. Nevertheless thank you for your concerns about my state of being.
Note: you are trying hard to bring down the standards of this blog — your contribution of juvenile pics helped bring it to rock-bottom. You may be a great student of history–i don’t know, of the past, but you need to grow a few inches taller into the present so can keep up with the pace of real intellects here and the fast moving world.
And stop playing KoWn’s secretary.
It’s no use Tech, Villager only get habby-clown jokes !
““The first man to fuck little Sophie
Has just won the Kraft-Ebing Trophy,
Plus ten thousand quid,
Which, for what the chap did,
Will be widely denounced as a low fee.”
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-3/#comment-414075
“Ha ha ha Habbakuk
Brilliant one! Touche! .”
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/work-for-the-un/comment-page-3/#comment-414079
A welcome but rather unusual move from Erdogan in the light of his domestic problems.
Erdogan to break Gaza’s sea, air blockade
28/06/2013 – 09:27 AM
GAZA, (PIC)– Turkish PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan is due to arrive to the Gaza strip on a navy ship which is to move to Gaza’s international Mediterranean waters, Turkish diplomatic source revealed.
Alray news agency quoted a Turkish source as saying that Erdogan “would then board a helicopter to the landing pad of late president Arafat in Gaza’s Ansar security facility.”
“Turkish PM will break Israel’s sea and air blockade on the Gaza Strip in honor of the Mavi Marmara flotilla nine passengers killed in an Israeli raid, as their hopes for a free Gaza outweighed Israeli apologies and compensation,” the source added.
The diplomatic source stated that the 18-member Turkish delegation’s visit to Gaza came in line of the Turkish arrangements for Erdogan’s upcoming trip to the Gaza Strip.
/..
http://tinyurl.com/pcrfo9w
“A welcome but rather unusual move from Erdogan in the light of his domestic problems.”
Goodness ! A very bold, indeed brave move ! No wonder the actual date is not confirm, as I wouldn’t put it pass the Israelis to sabotage the trip, or even shoot his helicopter down; then we will see the ME really explode !
Oh dear! I put this on the UN thread by mistake following Macky’s links. V droll.
Reposting.
Israel’s chief rabbis snub leader of Anglican Church
Archbishop Justin Welby was to meet Rabbis Shlomo Amar and Yona Metzger during his visit to Israel, but between house arrest and a visit to Spain, he had to make do with Rabbinate officials.
by Yair Ettinger
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-s-chief-rabbis-snub-leader-of-anglican-church.premium-1.532452
Metzger anyway is under investigation.
Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger questioned on suspicion of money laundering, bribery
The chief rabbi is also suspected of theft and breach of trust; three others also also arrested in connection with the case.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/top-chief-rabbinate-official-questioned-on-suspicion-of-money-laundering-bribery.premium-1.531053
Bad timing Justin.
Obama and his Satanic trolls and sock puppets should watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PJ6r1j2SPQ
@ Macky
I’ll try one last time to take you through it slowly and then, if you still don’t understand, I think I’ll give it a rest. Feel free, of course, to have the last word (chronologically speaking).
_______
With specific reference to your latest post (18h58), we were actually discussing not the proposed instrument per se, and even less its financial aspect, but your contention that it contravened the provisions of the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights (or, as you then went on to say, the ‘spirit’ of that Declaration and/or the ‘principle’ of Human Rights). I attempted to show you that you were mistaken in both your basic assertion and your quasi-legal arguments thereafter.
Can I remind you once again that
– the Declaration mentions a great number of human rights but it does not mention the freedom to enter the territory of another state (for whatever purpose) as one of them. Where it does mention freedom of movement (Article 13), it does so in the following terms:
“Everyone has the right of freedom of movement and residence WITHIN THE BORDERS OF EACH STATE” (emphasis added).
– it is meaningless and misleading to then talk about a violation of the ‘principle’ (or the ‘spirit’) of human rights. The provisions of the Declaration are the ‘concretisation’, the written reflection, the translation into practice of that principle, and the fact that there are no provisions which identify the freedom to enter another state as a human right must be seen as evidence that the drafters of the Declaration did not see the freedom to enter another state as such a human right. You may of course say that they should have done, but that’s another matter.
– specifically on your latest post, you say :
“the cash-bond is rather of a different nature & intent altogether !” (to visa requirements).
Yes, of course it is. A visa is an authorization which all nationals of certain states are required to obtain in order to be able to enter the UK for various purposes, usually for a temporary period. The proposed bond is intended to help ensure that the that the terms and conditions under which the visa has been granted are respected; it is therefore not an authorisation but a modality. It is ‘discriminatory’ to the extent that it will be required not of all nationals of all states whose citizens need a visa in order to enter the UK but only to all nationals of certain of those states. It is therefore no more ‘discriminatory’ than the visa regime itself, which imposes visa requirements on, say, Russian but not Swiss nationals. This is why I asked you if you also objected to the principle and practice of visas. And I would point out that no-one has so far claimed, either before the courts or on this blog, that visa requirements constitute a violation of human rights, either as laid down in the Declaration or even of the ‘principle’ or ‘spirit’ of human rights.
I rest my case, except to repeat that while you may question whether the bond is the right instrument for achieving the propose sought (in terms of effectiveness, the hard cases to which it might give rise, etc etc) you cannot question it by claiming that it violates human rights.
One last reference to Reich from the Telegraph obituary.
“He made large donations to Israel — where he received several honorary awards, and where he will be buried.” Lovely man. He will join Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch – alias Robert Maxwell, on those sun drenched slopes above the Kidron Valley where Christ was buried.
One can suppose that Reich’s loot helped to kill and maim some Palestinians, along with the expansion of ‘settlements’. It is an elemental struggle of good against terrible evil.
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
27 Jun, 2013 – 10:25 pm
To Jon:
“You misunderstand the thrust of my post on the “Oxford 5″, which was not to hint that some other posters were in favour of child abuse/rape but to draw attention to what might seem to be a certain one-sidedness in their concern about children – loud when it’s Muslim Afghan children accidently killed by an American drone but silence when it’s British kids deliberately misused and tortured by Muslims.”
Are you obsessed with Muslims HB?
You write above: “…Muslim Afghan children…”
99% of Afghans are Muslim so why do you need to emphasise “Muslim” when you could have merely said Afghan children?
“…accidently killed by an American drone…”?
Could you describe a Jewish child (for example) being accidently killed by a Syrian drone?
I think your mask is slipping HB.
The majority of posters here I venture are wholeheartedly abhorred by child murder, torture and sex-abuse, whatever the religion, colour or creed of the abuser; a child is a child.
A Muslim child abuser is as bad as a Christian or Jewish or Atheist child abuser.
You seem incapable of seeing that this is the majority consensus among posters on this blog.
@ Fred (19h16)
“What a good idea. We could abolish visas and passports and things, abolish borders. The world could be one big happy family without all the us and them. Think of the money we would save. Just let people come and go as they wish, don’t see why not.”
___________
I think that might be something of a minority viewpoint, Fred, and not only in the UK. I shall consider it to have been an essay (and a rather successful one!) at humour. 🙂
It seems like Edward Snowden’s situation has gone down rapidly since the bail skipper in the Ecuadorian Embassy became involved. Funny that.
Macky ; Goodness ! A very bold, indeed brave move ! No wonder the actual date is not confirm, as I wouldn’t put it pass the Israelis to sabotage the trip, or even shoot his helicopter down then we will see the ME really explode
!
😯
Someone call the Medic.
From Flaming June, just now :
“One last reference to Reich from the Telegraph obituary.
“He made large donations to Israel — where he received several honorary awards, and where he will be buried.” Lovely man. He will join Ján Ludvík Hyman Binyamin Hoch – alias Robert Maxwell, on those sun drenched slopes above the Kidron Valley where Christ was buried.
One can suppose that Reich’s loot helped to kill and maim some Palestinians, along with the expansion of ‘settlements’. It is an elemental struggle of good against terrible evil”
______________________
? ? ?
@ Doug Scorgie :
“a child is a child.”
__________
Exactly the point I was trying to make, Doug.