Here in Ghana people are stunned by the announcement that a bond of £3,000 will have to be submitted by visa applicants to the UK, redeemable on return.
It is unpleasant for a nation to be singled out as comprised of particularly untrustworthy individuals against whom special measures are needed. Theresa May appears quite deliberately to be singling out countries whose citizens are normally black or brown – India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Ghana and Nigeria. They are all citizens with extremely close ties to the UK. For example, all of those countries supplied large numbers of men to British armed forces in two World Wars; with little resulting gratitude.
The true level of Britain’s regard for the Commonwealth is disclosed in all its arrogance; citizenship of the Commonwealth countries with the longest link to the UK will become a positive disadvantage in visa application. Israeli settlers living in Occupied Palestine on the West Bank, incidentally, will still be allowed to enter the UK without any visa at all, despite membership of neither Commonwealth nor EU. Paradoxical, isn’t it?
The measure shows the arrogant British disdain for these countries – of which India pre-eminently but also Ghana are fast growing and important trading partners. Undoubtedly Ghana will retaliate with measures which hurt British businesses; many of my good friends are senior Ghanaian politicians, and they are all furious. The rhetoric the British employ about transformation from colonial status to a modern partnership of equals is exposed for the tissue of lies it has always been. This is a straightforward racist measure, aimed at securing the racist vote to the Tories.
Not does it make any sense. If you are intending to enter the UK under false pretences, and have the intent illegally to settle and start a new life there, then £3,000 is scarcely a deterrent given the substantial economic gains you intend to make over the long period you intend to stay. It will rather seem a good investment; people will find the money. The people it will deter are those who never intended to overstay. The extra cash upfront, to the businessman for a business trip, for the student coming to study, for the tourist will drive them to go elsewhere, to the UK’s net loss.
More cruelly it will deter decent middle class people from coming to see grandchildren in the holidays, from going to the niece’s wedding, from going to graduation. Those things will become the prerogative of the wealthy, those with plenty of cash to spare.
This does nothing to deter illegal immigration. It merely demonstrates populist racism, demonstrates contempt for some of the UK’s best-disposed friends, and demonstrates that the government thinks the right to travel is only for the rich. It is contemptible.
“This does’nt make sense does it?”
It makes perfect sense.
Britain and Portugal are both members of the EEC so someone from Portugal can come here and get the benefits of our education system while people in Britain can move to Portugal when they retire and take advantage of their climate and lower cost of living.
We don’t have such an arrangement with Russia but it would be nice if one day the circumstances arose where we could.
Well it seems like a pragmatic approach to me. You have to have a system in place to stop millions of people from poorer countries coming here, as they surely would, and understandably do. Unfortunately that system is based on ‘quis paget entrat’, but that’s just the way of the world. I really don’t think it has anything to do with “arrogant British disdain for these countries”, Craig.
@ Fred :
Geoffrey’s post does actually make more sense than you give him credit for, Fred.
This is because it seems to me that his phrase “It doesn’t make sense, does it” is a comment not on the Portuguese side of his illustration only but on the totality of his illustration. He appears to be contrasting the Russian person who was refused a visa extension despite bringing money INTO the state with the Portuguese who who is allowed to stay (despite the family split-up) and is COSTING the state £25.000 a year.
What is not clear from his post is whether he thinks that Russians should also be entitled to visit and stay without a visa (like EU citizens) or whether the arrangements in respect of EU nationals are a bad thing.
But from a strictly economic standpoint, the example he gives does seem to point to a fairly nonsensical situation.
Hope that helps, Fred.
Habbabkuk, no, they live in la-la land where everything is the fault of the Bri’ish State.
The obvious problem with Craig’s analysis is that Israeli settlers don’t, and wouldn’t want to, come here en masse, but that does n’t stop him from carrying on with the old racism crap.
That was, Habbabkuk @6.34pm.
Being a citizen of a member nation of the Commonwealth is not a good reason for privileged access to the UK. As we all know, the Commonwealth is a vestigial remnant of the empire which existed solely for the benefit of the UK. Rather than sever all links between former colonies, the Commonwealth provided a formal structure to pursue matters of common interest, not for the direct benefit of citizens but for the governments and large private interests of member nations.
Looking at the nations that make up the Commonwealth, it’s hard to see what we have in common that should rationalise the extension of privileges to its citizens that cannot or should not be extended to citizens from non-Commonwealth nations. Why should a Pakistani get special treatment over a Japanese in their applications for a visa? Because one is a member of an exclusive club?
Again, there has to be a reason for allowing entry to a country and it is common knowledge that all countries grant visas and charge fees according to their own migration policies, security assessments, cultural sensitivies and business objectives. Is this £3000 bond demand an inexplicably racist policy or a test of a new measure to manage an actual problem? Does a problem not exist? Let’s see some evidence.
By the way, did you get your “Life is good” tagline from your LG “Life is Good” television set?
That’s what it says when I turn on my propaganda box!
well said Craig, what a contemptible racist little measure from Ms. May.
Just imagine that there is a reciprocate measure introduced by these countries for British business and/or a levy on tourists.
So if business wo/men and tourists/family get togethers, etc., have to pay £3000 per person to enter into a developing country, how much should theses developing countries charge business wo/men from a developed country to come into their country? twice as much? More?
£10.000.
Off course, Ghana, as a sign of friendship and cooperation, could extend the visa free entry of illegal West Bank settlers offered by Britain, to their own country, to soften the impact of their ‘fairness tax’.
The price of everything, and the value of nothing. Touring musicians, actors, writers, visiting friends, families – unless they’re rich, they can stay away. What a sad, tight, joyless, uninspired, Philistinic miserablist little excuse of a place we become.
“Geoffrey’s post does actually make more sense than you give him credit for, Fred.”
I know, that’s what I said, he’s the one said it didn’t make sense.
Someone from Britain can live in Portugal if they want to, someone from Portugal can live in Britain. Unfortunately that doesn’t apply to Russia.
Personally I don’t much care how much money people have, if they are educated or what language they speak. Some of my best friends are poor uneducated people who can’t speak English.
” Just imagine that there is a reciprocate measure introduced by these countries for British business and/or a levy on tourists.”
” Touring musicians, actors, writers, visiting friends, families – unless they’re rich, they can stay away.”
The naivety of some of the Murrayistas is truly breathtaking!
On my screen at 100% magnification, the list is about 7 ins long not 12 ins so you are exaggerating or perhaps you have enlarged text on yours.
Work out the cost of visa for a Ghanaian whose minimum wage is 5.24 cedis a day when 5.24 cedis = £1.69 and you will see how exorbitant the price is.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country
That was to Villager.
Of course I was talking about the totality of the situation,thank you H. Fred,even,if I did go to live in Portugal they would’nt pay for my child’s education,and if you retired there and got seriously ill I’m pretty sure you’d be running back home to the NHS.
I still do not think it makes sense not to take money from some foreigners who want to give it to us,and to give it to others for whom we can not reasonably be responsibe for,and for zero economic benefit to us.
“Would you please post again and enlighten us? In the interests of pursuing a civilised and enlightening dialogue and discussion of course, as requested by Jon.”
Since you are so keen for a discussion, I maybe should remind you again that it’s at least three times you said that you would respond to KOWN’s post about the accusation frequently made by yourself & one or two others, that there is a predominately ‘anti-West narrative’ here on this Board. I really think that as you often cite this as justification for the way you conduct yourself here, you should “man up” & engage, otherwise people will draw certain conclusions as to why you only want to debate with FJ/Mary.
Here to help get you started is what KOWN posted;
““No, I genuinely don’t believe in the existence of the ‘anti-West narrative’ that you frequently inveigh against. I do think most posters on this thread are united by disgust and anger for much of what the West does, but that is not the same thing. As for the examples you cite – mistreatment of women in India, for example – I think the reason people don’t post on such issues is simply that these things are universally condemned and hardly worth the effort of pointing out on a forum where it can be tacitly assumed most people are on the same page. What gets people’s goat here, I submit without a trace of faux-naivety, is those instances where there is a chasm between the cruel things the west does and the way they are laundered and perfumed by such organs as the BBC.”
Zero economic benefit to us … and other hastily posted unthoughtout responsive comments to previous postsz
“Of course I was talking about the totality of the situation,thank you H. Fred,even,if I did go to live in Portugal they would’nt pay for my child’s education,and if you retired there and got seriously ill I’m pretty sure you’d be running back home to the NHS.
I still do not think it makes sense not to take money from some foreigners who want to give it to us,and to give it to others for whom we can not reasonably be responsibe for,and for zero economic benefit to us.”
As an EEC member you would be entitled to all the benefits the other residents of Portugal get which includes state education and health care.
There are more things in life than money you know. Love of money is the root of all evil they say.
He tried to but (ah butt) into what seemed to be essentially a private (if also public,as it were(catch 22ed al ee)) ‘conversation’ – but it seemed like as if a wasteof time, so he shut up(and changed identities, again).
@ Flaming June
“Work out the cost of visa for a Ghanaian whose minimum wage is 5.24 cedis a day when 5.24 cedis = £1.69 and you will see how exorbitant the price is.”
________
I’ll consider this comment of yours which would addressed to Villager as also an answer to my request to you to explain why you posted the list of visa fees: you are saying that those fees are much too high.
Firstly, thank you for engaging in discussion and let’s see if, the plunge taken, we can continue in a fruitful manner.
If the minimum wage in Ghana is as low as that, it would obviously be quite difficult for someone on or only slightly above that wage to be able to afford a visa. But would you not then accept that it would be even more difficult for such a person to afford a return air ticket to the UK (air fares to Africa, from Europe, are excessively high by the way, as I’m sure Craig could confirm). If you accept the validity of this thought, then surely the question of the amount of the security deposit becomes rather academic, since such a person under such economic conditions would not be able to visit the UK anyway (and, by the by, would therefore not need a visa either)?
If, on the other hand, the person is earning a ‘good’ salary by Ghanaian standards and able to afford the high airfare(s), then it would surely be the case that the visa fee and even the security deposit should not prove an insurmountable hurdle?
It should be noted that the security deposit is refundable and I imagine that if the potential visitor cannot cough up the sum required from his own pocket ways and means are available or will be found for such a sum to to be made available to him (temporary personal loans from various sources, a bank bond, etc…)
Lookinjg forward to reading you.
I post this separately from my post to Flaming June so as not to create confusion which might stand in the way of a good discussion and fruitful interchange of ideas.
Can somebody tell me if the £3000 security deposit will be required from nationals of all non-EU member states or only from certain countries? Judging from the comments on here it would appear to be the latter. Could someone please confirm and indicate which countries would fall under this requirement?
Thank you in advance.
Again, I post this separately as an aid to focussed discussion.
As Craig knows full well (but perhaps some others do not), visa requirements work by nationality and not by place of residence. Craig also knows that citizens of Israel can travel to the UK and indeed to any other EU member state without a visa because Israel is not on the EU’s “common visa list” (itself part of the EU’s common visa régime), ie the list of countries whose nationals must have a visa to enter the space of the EU. The question of whether Israeli citizens are resident in pre-1967 Israel or in the occupied territories (or anywhere else for that matter) is irrelevant from a legal point of view in the matter of visas.
BTW, I do hope that the use of Israel as an example will not have to unfortunate consequence of encouraging a flood of off-topic posts.
@ Giles
No, absolutely not; your post is the first I’ve heard of the LG Life is good TV. Is that the name of a TV model or is it LG’s general advertising slogan?
My motto is firmly based on the film.
Jives
26 Jun, 2013 – 2:21 pm
“Its a tilt at UKIP voters.”
Yes, I agree Jives; the Tories are trying to out-UKIP UKIP before the next election.
“Which will make more sense after Farage gets smeared at a time of the spooks choosing.”
Cameron will have to move further to the right not only to outflank UKIP but to satisfy the unelected elite powers that really run the UK.
If he doesn’t it will be he that gets smeared.
OT Again
Bluetooth range is normally stated as 100 metres max for a Class 1 Device. Potential “Class 0” devices which use a more powerful transmitter and more sensitive receiver to increase the pair range to an existing class 1 Bluetooth (such as in a car) to about 1km, have been widely demonstrated and actually deployed in some applications (where legal).
Not sure what the theoretical maximum is before timing might be a problem. I did see a claim it is about 10 miles in theory but short of reading the multiple Bluetooth levels specs I can’t confirm that.
But it is definitely fairly easy, with readily available components, to Bluetooth pair with a car up to 1km away. With the very best equipment it might be quite a bit more than that.
Well I thought it interesting anyway.
“Can somebody tell me if the £3000 security deposit will be required from nationals of all non-EU member states or only from certain countries? ”
This is a pilot scheme, starting in November, involving just the six countries listed by Craig. If successful it may well be extended to other nations.
Labour twice proposed such a scheme but never implemented it. In the US it’s raised $18 million from over-stayers which suggests it’s more a sly tax on immigrants rather than a way of encouraging people not to stay.
Flaming June
26 Jun, 2013 – 3:42 pm
Someone in reply seemed to think it was a perfectly reasonable move!
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/the-man-who-didnt-disappoint/#comment-414655
It was he:
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
26 Jun, 2013 – 7:49 am
“Foreigners of all kinds continue to be welcome but it is not unreasonable to expect them to respect the terms under which they were granted entry, is it?”
“…to expect THEM (?)…to respect the terms under which they were granted entry…”
THEM and US eh HB?
What is unreasonable is to single out certain nationalities for disproportionate treatment in visa applications; that smacks of racism for political advantage.
John Goss
26 Jun, 2013 – 3:50 pm
“I’ve raised a FOI request upon the Home Office regarding Abu Qatada in which I have tried to get figures of those arrested under anti-terrorism acts. It contains the following questions:”
“Does the Home Office operate a system of racism (religionism if you like) against Islam?”
Come on John that is a stupid question for a FOI request.
Your other questions are ok.
Jemand – Drone Target
26 Jun, 2013 – 3:56 pm
“Soon we will be asked to pay a bond to post comments here.”
We do not accept Australian dollars.
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
26 Jun, 2013 – 6:34 pm
“Before reading further in this potentially very interesting thread and prhaps [sic] commenting further, could I ask – just to get basic positions clear – if there is anyone present who believes that there should be no immigration controls into the UK and/or that there is no problem of so-called over-staying?”
A loaded question HB that deserves to be ignored.
Deregulation of markets and the free movement of capital and labour is what the neo-liberal globalists want is it not?
Paradoxically the neo-con neo-lib globalists want to control the free movement of labour (not capital); too many immigrants here not enough there; restrictions put in place here but not there.
They want to have their cake and eat it.
Everyone knows that all our economic problems are caused by these darkies and not the corrupt banksters and their lackies in politics and the press. Bravo to the Fuhrer on this one, and three cheers to Deputy Fuhrer Gideon for staying up late and working (instead of snorting coke with prostitues), he didn’t even have a proper dinner, now that’s what I call sacrifice. We should all be ashamed for not being like these supermen.