Quite simply I do not believe the US, UK and French government’s assertion that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons against rebels “multiple times in small quantities”. Why on earth would they do that? The claim that “up to 150 people have died” spread over a number of incidents makes no sense at all. In a civil war when tens of thousands of people have died, where all sides have been guilty of massacres of scores at a time, I cannot conceive of any motive for killing a dozen or so at any one time with the odd chemical shell. It makes no military sense – chemical weapons are designed for use against population centres and massed armies. They are not precision weapons for deployment against small groups.
Why on earth would the Assad regime use a tiny amount of chemical weapons against tiny groups of rebels, knowing the West would use it as an excuse to start bombing? It makes no sense whatsoever. Cui bono?
The Russians have described the evidence as fabricated, and on this one I am with the Russians.
It is of course no coincidence that this humanitarian motive to start bombing Syria arises just as the tide of war turned against the rebels, and the government forces are about to move on Aleppo. I suspect now we will see massive NATO force intervention, with huge air to ground destruction of the government forces all over the country to “defend” Aleppo, just as we saw hundreds of thousands killed and whole cities destroyed in Libya to “defend” Benghazi. Whose people showed their gratitude by murdering the US Ambassador.
It is a further fascinating coincidence that this coordinated western switch of policy happens immediately after the Bilderberg conference. An analysis of which of the corporate interests there stand to gain in Syria might be a fascinating exercise.
There were two main reasons the tide of war turned against the rebels. Firstly, Hizbollah’s decision to enter the war on a large scale was provoked by the Israeli Air Force’s massive attack around Damascus, a fact the mainstream media has managed to hide completely. Secondly, at Turkish urging, the rebel forces had diverted much of their energies to attacking the Syrian kurds. This opens the interesting question of what the American client Kurds of Iraq will make of their patron sponsoring the massacre of their brethren in Syria.
Finally, chemical weapons are a terrible thing and their use should be condemned unreservedly. But where was all this Western outrage and activity when the Israelis were pouring down white phosphorous and kicking and maiming thousands of women and children in Gaza?
hello
yes the sarin allegation is a means to an end for the nato/usa alliance and their merceneries in syria.
there was a report last week that some mercenaries aka rebels were caught trying to smuggle it through turkey.
looks like they tried again and succeeded.
good link to medialens report, the wilful ignorance of the multitude is digraceful and an inditement of the lack of character and morality of modern, western (in)humanity.
yes it is a distraction from the prism ‘scandal’ the scandal that was set up in the late 90’s as operation echelon, the scandal that google and facebook were set up with venture capital from in-q-tel a cia/nsa front on so on, the scandal that as long as im alright i dont give a ****.
or the scandal that this country is in debt to 900% of gdp a figure only eclipsed by the old weimar republic or the scandal of the west robbing and killing the poorer weaker parts of the world for their own benefit and the trickle down meagre benefit to the populations of the west, or the scandal that the sas amongst others taught the mujahadeen how to make ieds in the 80’s. or the scandal that even after a thousand years of rule by kings and queens, or the monied elite, that power has never been taken away from them.
whose fault is that?
Villager, tastes in humour aside, and, clearly, ignoring the intent of Sofia’s posts, are you really suggesting that you can judge whether a person has anything to ‘contribute to humanity’ or not? Because that would be jolly funny.
@ Technicolour you attempt to take Villager to task by writing
“…are you really suggesting that you can judge whether a person has anything to ‘contribute to humanity’ or not?”
__________
Isn’t that what most of the Eminences on this blog spend their time doing when they comment about figures in the public sphere?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW – excellent posts by Jemand and Villager, thank you.
fred
this reference (http://larouchepac.com/node/25961) comes somewhat as a surprise to me. I have always thought that Obama Sim ladin financed 9/11 from rent collected for letting the numerous bedrooms of his underground cave to tourists on adventure holidays. His cave was rather spacious as you can appreciate from the drawing presented by Rumsfeld (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FGhGHxw0mSo)and apparently OBL had many of those. Or are you one of those despicable conspirators who have doubts that Rummie boy has been deceiving us?
Your ref. to larouchepac.com/node/25961 is a shit, not an evidence, as claimants can claim anything. I am too old to claim that I am an illegitimate son of John lennon but it could have been Elvis Presley for what I know.
Oh, good morning, Habbakuk. What’s your excuse for wasting time on this board? Mine is that I have a dodgy knee at the moment. Naturally you wouldn’t like Sofia’s posts; I think we could all have guessed that 🙂
@ Kempe
I too agree that Karel’s theory is by far the most likely one.
Quite an advert for the beneficial effects of Château Cordet on his thinking processes as well.
@ Villager 10:38 am
Yes. Nonsense it is. You have found me out.
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No of course I’m not sorry at all.
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I’m not much bothered either whether you find it funny.
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You are so kind to be concerned that Craig has to read all this nonsense.
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As for your judgements regarding my lack of respect for him or my contribution to humanity, I just wonder who the hell do you think you are? Villager the Omniscient, Scourge of Blog Pests?
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Sofia’s posts are my response to the squad of conformity-enforcers who patrol these threads and forever seek to derail what, for me at least, is a brilliantly alive and informative conversation by an on-line community of people who clearly share a thirst for truth, justice and compassion. Like a rookery or beehive it gathers and pools diverse information in a way that no individual is able. There is plenty of passionate debate and difference in opinion as you would expect from any genuine disparate group.
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And then there are the wreckers who crash into the conversation like drunken bores in a pub and try to upset and start fights. The official narratives they peddle are those that have lead over and over to mass slaughter and economic destruction of whole peoples. They rarely answer questions and seem to rely on playground insults and haughty dismissal to do their job.
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I like Sofia’s hormone tormented 13and a half year old’s take on all your pompous grown-up posing. She allows me to decompress a little after wading through yet more information about the pure horror of the things being done to my fellow human beings by the elites that these trolls beleive.
At present I’m digesting Ch.3 of Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine” which details the methodology of western manufactured regime-change. It is a totally obscene travesty which shocks and upsets me and needs to be brought to the attention of the world. For that I feel we owe a vast debt to the likes of Craig Murray, Julian Assange and all the whistle-blowers who have literally put their lives on the line so that we can see what is being done in our name.
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If it offends you that, in the meantime, I have a bit of fun taking the piss out of delusional bullies and hopefully diverting them from distracting the real worker-bees of this hive-mind then that’s too bad.
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If it bothers Craig or Jon enough for them to ask me to desist then I will, but for the moment you will just have to take a few deep breaths and count to ten when the dreaded Sofia strikes.
Gary: “whose fault is that?” – um. Currently, the lack of a positive egalitarian, humanitarian environmental movement that doesn’t automatically divide people, I think? Among other things. Probably not a good answer, but I tried.
Habbakuk: “Isn’t that what most of the Eminences on this blog spend their time doing when they comment about figures in the public sphere?” – well yes. But, as Utah Phillips points out, ‘the earth is not dying, it is being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses’. You could add ‘humans’ to ‘earth’, if you like. And I doubt Sofia is responsible for economic genocide, depleted uranium and drone warfare, for example.
on this blog have a penchant for @ high fiving each other every time one of them hits a high hasbaric note, reminds me of the five Israelis doing the “Zapruder” for mossad archives in the NY Car Park. But they have a long way to go to reach the height of the video of the high fivers in the aisles of the El Al Jumbo that took off from New York on the afternoon of 911!!
The red lines over Syria have not been crossed
The country is already awash with weapons, which are at the limit of what can be safely given to the rebels
Alastair Crooke
The Guardian, Sunday 16 June 2013 21.30 BST
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/16/red-lines-syria-have-not-been-crossed
Keep going Sofia.
Villager was hauling me over the coals recently for my lack of punctuation marks. Fiddling while Rome burns IMHO. We have not heard much about Krishnamurthy lately!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiC6iJ2NYtc
June,
Thanks. Yes I’ve noticed that.
Torture people? No problem.
Torture Grammar? Oh you monster. How could you?
Also for such brave hearts they, seem a bit thin skinned when it comes to a little light-hearted ridicule, especially if it comes from a female or a child.
Technicolour
17 Jun, 2013 – 11:06 am
“Villager, tastes in humour aside, and, clearly, ignoring the intent of Sofia’s posts”
You want to speak in a vacuum?
“We have not heard much about Krishnamurthy lately!”
Not meant for obsessive compulsive posters. Could be very dangerous.
@ Villager
Judging by some of the posts above, I should say that the real trolls (the Eminences and the wannabe-Eminences) are getting a bit desperate. They are on the edge of losing the plot entirely 🙂
Villager: “You want to speak in a vacuum” – not possible, I believe. But a) your opinion of whether ‘Sofia’ is funny or not is, surely, just that; b) the intent of her posts (which you rather ignored) is arguably quite serious c) her posts vary in content and approach d) there are other ways of disagreeing with people than making blanket judgements about their contribution to humanity in general e) what’s the point of all this, again?
sigh. Off to do knee exercises. I agree, by the way, that working on one’s own response to the general situation is a great thing.
“I agree, by the way, that working on one’s own response to the general situation is a great thing.”
Very good we can agree on that.
Forgive me if i won’t submit to your cross-examination/analysis of your thoughts. I observe, not judge, in freedom. I needn’t say that you have the same freedom.
Give a little love to your knee. Check out a clove of raw garlic first thing in the morning washed down with warm water. Its oil may just go straight to your knee.
Habbabkuk (La Vita È Bella!)
17 Jun, 2013 – 1:10 pm
@ Villager
”Judging by some of the posts above, I should say that the real trolls (the Eminences and the wannabe-Eminences) are getting a bit desperate. They are on the edge of losing the plot entirely ”
I see the imbecilic behaviour for what it is. One claims first childhood and the other? Whatever, not much wisdom on offer.
@Habbabkuk 1:10 pm
“They are on the edge of losing the plot entirely.”
Could you and your mates spare a few moments from mutual congratulations and would tell us why you are avoiding the issue of the fake “Assad uses sarin so we have to save them with our bombs” plot?
Why don’t people believe it?
What about what the UN said on May 6th or the sarin taken from the rebels in Syria last week?
For those still in doubt or denial, or both, even the BBC has reported it is the rebels that are using chemical weapons.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/05/us-syria-crisis-un-idUSBRE94409Z20130505
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sY_9SrIUVwU#!
Funny isn’t it. I stop fooling around and ask a reasonable question and they all go away. Maybe I should make more gramticle or spelling erors, thats sure to get their blood preshre up.
Willager is now stealing Habbabkuk’s script above.
Anyway to serious matters.
17 June 2013 Last updated at 14:19
Iran vote: Rouhani vows transparency on nuclear issue
Hassan Rouhani at news conference in Tehran,
Hassan Rouhani won more than 50% of the vote in Friday’s election
Iran is ready to show more transparency on its nuclear programme, says President-elect Hassan Rouhani.
In his first news conference since Friday’s vote, Mr Rouhani also described as unfair sanctions imposed on the country over the issue.
And he said Tehran would not suspend its uranium enrichment activities.
The West suspects Iran of trying to build nuclear weapons. Tehran says its programme is solely for peaceful purposes.
At the news conference, which covered a wide range of issues, Mr Rouhani also said his government would work towards “constructive interaction with the world”.
/..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22940220
Interesting that Boris drives the dagger into Cameron in a little more.
Torygraph – Boris Johnson: Don’t arm the Syria maniacs
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1371469737.html
@karel
What nationality was Bin Laden?
Habbabkuk and Villager
At 1 51pm I asked…”tell us why you are avoiding the issue of the fake “Assad uses sarin so we have to save them with our bombs” plot?”
For once I was on-topic and I think the question was appropriate.
In the two hour period before that, between you, you sent 5 posts, containing zero information.
In the two plus hours since then you sent zero posts, but managed to provide us with just as much information.
I wonder what could all that mean?
OT-Snowden on GG right now answering questions live…..I just can’t see replies.
Well seeing as you clearly value my opinion on this matter for the record I’m unconvinced that to date either side in Syria has used sarin or any type of chemical or biological weapon. The worst we’ve had to date are “strong suspicions” and the alleged seizure of sarin in Turkey the other week remains to be confirmed (how were they able to establish it was sarin so quickly?).
What I do know is that 93,000 people have died in the conflict so far, 6,000 of them children, and there seems no way to stop the slaughter. The UN’s impotence in this kind of crisis is well known and the Arab League has done nothing except suspend Syria’s membership. It would be nice to think we could send an international task force in to pull the two sides apart or maybe arming one side or the other so they can bring the war to swift conclusion does have some merits but neither would bring about a long term solution to the country’s problems.
Apparently the ground war is over, with the rebels having been defeated. Now the west will have to rely on sanctions to bring about regime change, as well as ‘a-symmetric warfare’, of course. In other words, more western state-backed terrorism and more innocent civilian deaths.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/humanitarian-crisis-in-syria-the-west-should-pay-war-reparations-to-syria-interview-with-michel-chossudovsky/5338250
“1) More detail on how direct NSA’s accesses are is coming, ” Snowden.
Ah, they’re saving that. Waiting for all the liars to come out with their cover stories first.
5.03pm
@Kempe.
Thanks for trying to help out the hapless Villager and Habba, perhaps the Laurel and Hardy of these threads.
“That’s another fine mess you’ve got us into Villager!”
And thanks for the attempt at providing information. I’m sure you would agree that the figures would be more believable if they came from a genuine research group rather than SOHR which, it seems is a one man operation, with a pro rebel agenda, that produces the evidence from above a shop in Coventry.
Maybe Medialens has a little more credibility:
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/alerts-2013/735-limited-but-persuasive-evidence-syria-sarin-libya-lies.html
As for your logic that one side or the other should be armed so as to hasten the end of the conflict. Although I wouldn’t agree with the premise in the first place, it would seem logical that if you want to go down that road you would have to arm Assad who, even according to the Israelis, is winning and thus would finish the killing quicker.
Could there be any sense at all in arming such a disparate group of rebels who, the whole world knows, contains a large proportion of the very same Islamist fundamentalists that the so called “War on Terror” is supposed to be fighting against?
I would love to see the international community supporting both sides to enter a peace process, instead of spending millions on weapons (tools for killing). The money could then be used instead to address the humanitarian disaster that all the fighting has created and for both the physical and social reconstruction of a fractured Syrian society.