It is not whether the individual had done anything wrong: it is whether the state has done anything wrong. Hague’s plea for the omniscient state is chilling: if you have done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. So it is alright for the state to eavesdrop all our social interactions, to follow our every move? Is there to be no privacy from the prying eye of the state, which can watch me on the toilet, and if I have done nothing wrong I have nothing to hide?
The terribly sad thing is that, by a media campaign which has raised public fear of terrorism beyond any rational analysis of the risk (depending which year you take as the base line, you have between 40 and 300 times more risk of drowning in your own bath than being killed by a terrorist) there is great public acceptance of the intrusive state. This of course depends on the notion that the state is not only omniscient but benevolent. I do urge anyone infected by this way of thinking to read Murder in Samarkand for a practical demonstration of just how malevolent, indeed evil, the state can be.
GCHQ and NSA share all intelligence reports, as do the CIA and MI6, under US/UK intelligence sharing agreements first put in place by Roosevelt and Churchill. That is one of the most widely known of all official secrets – there are probably fifty thousand current or retired civil servants like me who know that, and many academics, journalists etc – but even in the light of the Snowden revelations, you probably won’t see it much in print, and you won’t hear it in Parliament, because it is still a criminal offence to say it. Let me say it again:
GCHQ and NSA share all intelligence, as do the CIA and MI6, under US/UK intelligence sharing agreements first put in place by Roosevelt and Churchill. NSA and GCHQ do the large bulk of communication interception. Now both NSA and GCHQ are banned from spying on their own citizens without some motive of suspicion – though as Edward Snowden has been explaining, that motive of suspicion can be terribly slight, like you have someone as a facebook friend who has a facebook friend whose sister once knew someone connected with an animal liberation group. But in any event, the safeguards are meaningless as NSA and GCHQ can intercept communications of each other’s citizens and they share all information. I have been explaining this in public talks these last ten years – I am happy it is finally hitting the headlines.
We need Edward Snowden and we need Bradley Manning. I had hoped that the barefaced lies of Bush and Blair, leading to a war that killed hundreds of thousands, would make people see that politicians, and the corporate interests that stand so close behind them, simply cannot be trusted.
The world needs whistleblowers. Now more than ever.
“This is old news, and something I protested to my MP at the time about prior to the passing of RIPA in 2000. It provides the legal framework that Hague is using. For example the justification around getting communications data (that’s the fact that a communication has taken place including timings and other metadata) are:”
This is what I don’t understand, why anyone is surprised, I thought it had been common knowledge for over a decade.
I remember when they first started putting the black boxes in at the ISPs we all used to put as many key words in our posts as we could to overload the system.
Booz Allen works for Satan, of course, but paradoxically, the firm may be more than ordinarily vulnerable to the worm of conscience. Booz Allen doesn’t do a lot of McKinsey-style indoctrination (we’re the best, we’re the best, Are you good enough? Are you good enough?) It’s too big and protean to hold together as a a cult. The firm has traditionally allowed corporate culture to be imposed at the practice level, resulting in considerable diversity among a lot of petty satraps. Most are totalitarian, of course, especially in military bailywicks. But some fail to circumscribe thought. And their top echelon still includes some deep thinkers – tormented, of course, but not yet entirely insane. There are more and bigger Snowdens in their pipeline.
It is perhaps one of the most pernicious and insidious deviations from the natural order, requirement and purpose of the British Government to harvest, catalogue and disseminate to any damn fool who happens to have security clearance of all information that is either deemed necessary or just mildly interesting.
I guess we all own some complicity in that we use the media as our own separate tools, that we express opinions in a digital age that can give rise to a fuller pictrure of an individual’s traits, ideas and pecadillos than would ever have been the case 20 years ago or something – that we invite and declare our positions in clear, unedited formats for all the world to see – that we trust google, vodafone or some other such piece of shit as to our innermost thoughts. However, if they want it – then they should frikkin well legislate for it.
What next? Just allow governments to traduce all liberty, to render, to incarcerate, to intern, to own the bloody individual as a commodity, an ingredient or factor in a nebulous process of deterministic benevolent prevention. Well, if Billy wants to act like every other little authoritarian twat thne bully for him. If Cameron wants to adorn the vestiges of totalitarian bureucrat then super, smashing, great.
Meet the new boss – same as the old boss. Screw ’em, and screw ’em hard.
Cheers Craig, as always.
When I attempt to post a detailed account of my complaints about the misuse of data mined from me, it is somehow deleted in the process, showing that NSA, FRA, and GCHQ are reading my mind as it works.
Pretty soon I shall be hearing words, telling me to do something criminal?
It’s sad that the concept of ‘Big Brother’ is widely known and has been for some time, yet knowledge of it has achieved absolutely nothing. Therefore I can see any usefulness of an awareness campaign. I think the unpalatable truth is that its time for civil disobedience. That is likely to meet a predicted wall of denial based resistance too. Civil disobedience? – Good heavens man, were British. We are great at talking, but crap at acting.
I urge a tax revolt. There is no more effective time.
“I do urge anyone infected by this way of thinking to read Murder in Samarkand for a practical demonstration of just how malevolent, indeed evil, the state can be.” – Again, I expect to hear the throng: Steady on old boy, that’s just not cricket.
(forgive the English-isms)
Fear not… for these slimeballs will be voted in again at the next election.
Craig, do you have a view as to whether the explicit denials from Facebook, Microsoft and Google are barefaced lies, or that the security services have managed to get into large server farms without large corporations knowing about it?
You gotta admire Snowden’s taste and prep tho,
I mean. HK as opposed to pokey little London flat…
Julian, ya slapper!
That technology is far too old now. It was all the vogue in seventies, and eighties. What do they have in their arsenal, now?
Well they cant tell us that because it is a secret and if they do they will have to kill us all.
Snowden’s biography according to the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22837100
They are already on the case for his extradition to the US! Charged, convicted and found guilty in other words.
They have consulted a Hong Kong barrister called Grossman and another person called Regina Ip, a legislator and Hong Kong’s former Secretary for Security.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22837599
If Snowden is in South America (I was thinking of the bloke who fled into the Ecuadorean embassy), he would best avoid the jungle. From what I’ve read, no-one and nothing messes with either warrior ants or piranha. American jailers would be benevolent by comparison.
There are other age old questions too;
Is Pope a catholic?
Do the bears shit in the woods?
…..
Who these guys work for?
The history of SIS is intertwined with the rich, OSS, and the rest of the organisations following thereafter have all been manned and directed by the “philanthropic” rich.
Peter Wright keept regular contacts with certain ultra rich individual (cannot name for the fear of tropes) and through him he was introduced to another bunch of rich bastards who were off their fucking rockers and intent on instigating a coup and setting up Mountbatten of Burma as the prime minister. Although Wright at the same time was also in discussions with the same rich patron about gaining employment as the head of security for an outfit the rich chap owned.
Where do spies go to after they retire? There are those who drown in their pools! Then there are others who serve their masters by safeguarding their interest even more closer by working for them directly.
Anyone remember Howard Hughes?
KoWN-It’s a terrible irony that the internet which is such a wonderful development may turn out to be the means of our own ultimate ensnarement. It gives the spooks undreamed of possibilities for control and it seems we are being slowly bound round and round with digital spider silk. If you complain about the spider you are mocked as a conspiracy theorist. I suspect the reason for the public’s acceptance that you allude to is one of choice. They choose not too look, to reassure themselves that everything is still all right, because to contemplate the alternative is too disturbing.
Good points, but, completely nullified by humanity’s primal desire for the latest flashing box on which to ramble endlessly to anyone who cares to listen, take photographs of where it’s been and locate it with pinpoint precision for the benefit of its paranoid and self-appointed keepers. We deplore the chaining of prisoners, but we eagerly reach for the fetters themselves.
People are moved to act when:
– either it is within their power to effect change,
– or, they believe they have no alternative,
– (or both).
The priority is always breeding (sorry family). We re a life-form, of sorts .
Political apathy in the UK is the result of a simple sum – a bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Things will have to get a lot worse before the majority take their eyes off the entertainment media. The owners know it.
Surely the UK is already America’s 51st state. And I find that incredibly depressing.
Passerby, you overlooked what happened to Anna Lindh, and underestimated Wright, the KGB’s leading spy.
McGee continued,
“I am outraged that our government is attempting to censor the information from our military that every citizen in this country is potentially being targeted by our government in a massive overreach of their constitutional powers by unconstitutional surveillance of all Americans and storage of that data.”
‘Military told not to read Obama-scandal news’
http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/military-told-not-to-read-obama-scandal-news/
You’ll find google has been buying up the most common CAPTCHA providers ‘recaptcha.com’ is the most common ‘apture.com’ is another, few exist now which aren’t google owned and hosted, competition are driven out or shut down; they are finding their way onto sites with no conceivable need or reason to implement a captcha, to block use of the sites core functionality, and without allowing these inexplicable further connections to google a wide range of sites have become unusable. Google is the most insidious infiltrator of privacy, you cannot keep them out, it is like playing whack-a-mole.
Encryption alone is only a part of the solution as metadata isn’t part of the payload and is the same and taken/stored whether packet payloads/content are encrypted or not.
This has set back, rolled back every gain in civil and personal rights made in the last half-century, everything from freedom of expression to gay rights all suffer. The great potentiality of the internet to connect people with people and with services, to facilitate online communties or e-commerce has been stifled and snuffed out.
Do you believe the ‘war on terrorism’ is hyped up to take away the freedoms of citizens and distract citizens from economic problems?
What do Scots really think of these issues?
Answer here: http://bit.ly/10PBjbi
sorry… Therefore I can notsee any.. [lwtc247, 10 Jun, 2013 – 1:07 pm]
The really important point now is where has Edward Snowden gone.
Sounds to me like some enemy state, given his saying he won’t be going home, and Peter King calling it a defection.
Don’t recall Philby, Mclain, Burgess and Blake ever went home either.
Would really be funny if he showed up in Russia, cavorting around, say, with Anna Chapman.
Would be the first good news that Gareth Williams has heard since his horrible murder.
Article from the Gruniad in 2010 when the content of the agreement was published for the first time.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/25/intelligence-deal-uk-us-released
None of this should’ve come as a shock, even if you didn’t know about it it was something any intelligent person could’ve worked out for themselves. I mean what do you think these guys (and girls) do all day? Play Snap?
“Craig, do you have a view as to whether the explicit denials from Facebook, Microsoft and Google are barefaced lies, or that the security services have managed to get into large server farms without large corporations knowing about it?”
They probably don’t have much choice about denying it, for them to confirm it would be illegal.
Glenn Greenwald tweets
“Courage is contagious.”
I sure hope so. And I hope poor Bradley Manning’s heart has been lifted by Snowden.
Hardly think that Snowden’s alleged defection could do Manning any good.
Would make it seem that his conduct has helped produce real spies aka feeding America’s paranoia.
Where does the “alleged defection” arise?
Annie Machon was on Sky’s Boulton. She had praise for Snowden.
Douglas Murray, shill for the NWO, was in the studio. In his usual rather petulant style he said Snowden should be arrested and tried (for treason I assume he meant).
~~~
HMG has refused to confirm or deny that GCHQ has access to US spy programme. Hague’s statement is awaited very shortly. Agent Cameron says that the security services operate within the law and with proper scrutiny. Of course they do Dave.
“Whats the big deal? – these guys need ability and secrecy to protect us.”
@Innes (2:28pm) Whilst I might find have found something with which I might agree, on the site which you linked to, that was a pretty spammy comment, as are others from you on other threads here on this site. I can’t help noticing too that it (the site) demonstrates the very google-isation of web content which is part of the alarming phenomenon being discussed here.
“You gotta admire Snowden’s taste and prep tho,
I mean. HK as opposed to pokey little London flat…
Julian, ya slapper!”
Maybe the fact that the likes of Snowden earn^W are paid $200,000 a year whereas Assange seems to have relied on handouts has something to do with that.
I, for one, am greatly relieved that our All-Seeing Overlords are generously remunerated for their noble sacrifice, selling their soul to keep the state safe from us, its enemy.