GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people. I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying. What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.
Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK. For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse. Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK. The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state. Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.
I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government. Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites. But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low. Why?
Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted. I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation. There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.
There is more work for the UN on Syria. We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons. But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority. That needs to be restated, strongly. There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria – they are absolutely illegal. Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons. Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?
The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.
Just cannot believe how this thread has deteriorated into mindless anarchy where anything and everyone is discussed in a completely chaotic fashion. Outdoes the al-Nilli ones in just a few pages.
Having tried to get a line on Edward Snowden’s spying – what the thread’s topic illustrated – and connecting it to the Michael Hastings murder – what reminds me so much of Jorg Haider’s murder by the Mossad, my posts have been on topic.
Instead other posters have engaged in all kinds of character assassination. including me, other covert assassinations which don’t have any relationship to Hastings’, and pure convenient escapism, just to mention a few diversions.
I am leaving, and will only return if the following events occur: HK is actually asked to hand over Snowden, China offers him asylum, he somehow gets to Iceland, and Hastings’ assassination is discussed as a covert improvement on the Haider one where no fire occurred after the uncontrollable VW hit a wall at incredibly high speed.
The BBC hierarchy.
Simon Waldman, morning editor BBC News Channel was on Newswatch this morning, a TV programme. He was justifying breaking into Obomber’s speech in Belfast with live coverage of the DoE leaving hospital.
During the conversation with Samira Ahmed, it was revealed that the BBC had 48‘journalists’ covering the G8. Anazing.
Waldman writes on the Editors’ Blog and this comes from his entry on 9/11, such a dramatic day although he leaves out the part where the BBC presenter reported the collapse of WTC7 before it actually happened!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/blogcollegeofjournalism/posts/my_911_when_the_first_tower_co
‘The impact of that September afternoon, particularly on those caught up in the attacks and the families and friends of the victims, cannot be underestimated. The world changed radically that day. I think the BBC newsroom changed too. We began with what seemed to be a potentially interesting ‘picture’ story. We went rapidly through a kaleidoscope of reaction and emotion – fascination, incomprehension, disbelief, dawning realisation, numbing horror.
We were dealing with terrorism on a so-far unimaginable scale, and yet the newsroom team simply got on with the job. For many, it was only later – that night, or even days afterwards – that the scale of what had happened began to hit home.’
He is certainly correct that the world changed drastically that day. It was the start of the ‘War on Terror’, now ongoing for 12 years into an never ending future.
~~
I was wondering whether he is related to the late Ronnie Waldman who was a big name in earlier days at the BBC. If so, it’s more of the BBC incestuous nepotism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_Waldman
Guano, there is an island off North Berwick that is covered in guano. North Berwick is where Robert Louis Stevenson used to go for summer holidays as a child. It is thought that another of the small islands off the East Lothian coast was the inspiration for ‘Treasure Island’.
Please convey my regards to Long John Silver (and his parrot, which survived to the age of 101 and which, I am told by those who know, was able to recite the Odyssey backwards in six languages).
************
As Jon I think suggests, to some extent, creative digression is one means of broadening the muscles of the mind. It does not impede us seeking truth, quite the opposite. I agree with Trowbridge, though, wrt personal attacks on other posters. Life’s too short.
As to the suspicion that the G* attendees and indeed the Bilderburgers were electronically surveilled by the UKs elite spy agencies and eavesdroppers, in their multi-party formal discussions and in their private asides, round the clock, the answer is quite obviously an emphatic yes. That the masters of the universe are scrutinised in their communciations, in their every waking and sleeping moment is as assured as that many of us proles are or cna be too, in uninvasive ways, on the flimsiest pretexts or on none at all but simply caught in a vast collection net, for later misinterpretation and misuse. Peter Wright in his dull as ditchwater Spycatcher book described a large international conference, on which matters I cannot recall, in the early 70s, with heads of state and government from a myriad of nations, taking place in a building called Lancaster House, after its extensive ‘refurbishment’, Wright assured us that their wasn’t a square foot of the building, from bedroooms, to conference halls, to restaurants, to the extensive grounds, that wasn’t wired for sound. With newer technology today and infinite storage capability, improvements in audio electronics and of course video, such as the ability to refine and polish the end of a single hair-like microscopic glass fibre, to form a lens, there can be no doubt the capabilities are now beyond imagination. From Cameron gargling and pulling faces in the mirror in the morning and Miliband practising ‘sincerity’, to the clink of Ken Clarke’s secreted whisky bottles, Boris’s bonking and infinitely darker doings, there can be no secrets and no hiding place, and it’s a terrible state that we are in.
As I type this the hoover is idly chewing the carpet, taps are running and splashing, the tin-foil lined hood of my ‘Lord Anthony’ parka is zipped up fully with the nylon fur tickling my nose and still I have doubts –that seagull, is it the same one I saw yesterday?
Hey, great news, NATO allies! We Americans are making great progress in America’s MRAP abandonment-and-demolition initiative for America’s triumphant victory rout in liberated Afghanistan.
http://www.3ad.org/images/533mi_images/Highway%20%20of%20Death1.jpg
Coming along nicely!
Just to goad and make the ire of the monotonous routine of the moanings about the change of subject;
The world we are living in, has become more Hobbsian world of “survival of the cheats”, where there is no longer any joy to be found in the journey and only the destination and getting there matters, never mind how the culprits got there.
Mother Arrested for Taking English Exam On Behalf of Daughter
Before anyone jumps into Muslim bashing and proclaiming the “Burka/hijab” must be banned, and women liberated and all that malarkey. The woman in question was wearing; was dressed in Converse boots and low-waist skinny jeans and wore thick makeup.
Probably her stretch marks gave the game away (I have deployed a Kevlar screen protection, so females do your worst)!!
Not withstanding the above a seventy two year old man has been jailed for cheating in a fishing competition:
Oh the power of mob rule:
http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-685-russ-tice-reveals-the-truth-about-nsa-spying/
I haven’t updated myself as far as here. I just popped in to say that I’ll be back eventually. Too much of anything gets tiresome and this place had become tiresome to me. So I’m having a break.
In the meantime, I hope Craig got some relief for his heel.
Beannacht
Suhayl, Trowbridge, Jon, Technicolour and others. You will know who you are.
I’ve been thinking and observing your comments recently and I have to admit …” personal attacks on other posters. Life’s too short…”
Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?
I know I find it hard resist taking the piss, and I’ve justified it to myself with the rational that, like rooks mobbing a hawk, it alerts the rookery and keeps the predator occupied. And I have to admit, it has given me pleasure to get up the noses of, and keep occupied, those who I think are distracting or bullying. But I do trust that this rookery is bright enough to see what’s going on anyway and the flow of interesting information and debate seems to go on anyhow.
So, at the end of the day, I realise I have just become another kind of troll myself.
I’m going to try leaving Dad and certain others in peace and concentrate on seeking clarity and looking for ways out of the mess that their doctrines have us in.
Maybe for Winter Solstice or the New Year I’ll let off some steam, but you never know, I might have become a grown-up myself by then.
Thanks to all who have been so tolerant of my rantings.
Trowbridge, the conditions which you stipulate need to be satisfied before you will return strike me as utterly unachievable.
You will return if:
HK is actually asked to hand over Snowden.
China offers him asylum.
He somehow gets to Iceland.
Hastings’ assassination is discussed as a covert improvement on the Haider one where no fire occurred after the uncontrollable VW hit a wall at incredibly high speed.
I like reading your posts, don’t you think you could soften these conditions a bit, thereby allowing you to return without loss of face?
Don’t worry about the off topic posts, they are all part of the fun. It’s like going to the pub. We talk seriously for a while and then by page 3 we chew the fat about stuff in general. You like going to the pub don’t you?
Dreoilin, the Queen of Irish Light, again has done a ‘Fu Manchu’: “I will return… !”
King of Welsh Darkness, no doubt Trowbridge, unlike Fu Macnhu, will return only if Nigella (Lawson, whose sister-in-law’s brother allegedly was an SIS officer) admits that all along she has been a clever GI-Op (gastrointestinal operation, also known in the trade as a ‘jobby-op’) who has been inducing us all to consume more and more fat while imagining carnal congress and thus to clog our thinking processes beyond repair.
Willy Wonka arguably falls into the same category. Unless Willy admits that he is working for the gastronomic-industrial complex, I absolutely refuse to eat my hat!
“Fu Macnhu” – the Hebridean Gaelic version of ‘Fu Manchu’.
Of course, you win, as I shall return if you talk about the murder of Princess Diana in the Mercedes W140 where no fireball occurred in conditions where one was more likely if it could.
Chalk up another one for Mossad. It hated her.
Or else, might it have been the Increment, with a strobe light, a motorbike and a follow-up car? And falsified blood results? I’ve met establishment people who privately believe – though they do not know, cannot be certain – that Princess Diana was assassinated by those who see themselves as appointed by history to act on behalf of the institution of British Royalty. Who knows?
On the basis (at root) of,
“Ye canne hae a woag in the Hoose ae Cairds…”
That might have been what tipped it, on top of the years of loose cannon-balls. Oh yes, there are high-up people in this country who would kill for that – for much less.
Isn’t it strange they call themselves the Friends of Syria when the real friends aren’t members of the group at all?
Habby, before you say it, i know Assad is no angel, but is it really worth upsetting the whole secular apple-cart? Difficult one to navigate but i think even in this horrible nation-state paradigm humanity lives in, sovereignty needs to be upheld.
Now that I had to read twice and then laugh.
===========
The lady concerned was pretty much at logger heads with the respective in-laws, whom had entered into correspondence by addressing her a “diseased whore”. Do you contend the contract was put out to tender, and the lowest tender won? Or was it a favour that was called upon?
Trowbridge; codshit has but a handful of articles on Diana, and seem to be media reprints for the most part.
Not a single one from you young man 🙂
She had enemies from within and without. Spending time with muslim men put the Queen off.
Sofia: “So, at the end of the day, I realise I have just become another kind of troll myself.”
If you use those meaningless cliche’s “at the end of the day”, you’re no daughter of Habbakuk. At any rate, regards your confession ” I have just become…” etc , weren’t you born here for that chosen purpose in the first place, Ms Habbercake?
Btw how’s Kibo Noh doing?
” I’m going to try leaving….”
Or is this supposed to be Sofia’s long goodbye, only to return as Kibo? Interesting though as it is that, in your opening line: “Suhayl, Trowbridge, Jon, Technicolour and others. You will know who you are.”, Kibo Noh’s name is conspicuous by its absence.
While i was earlier predicting that one will fall away which so far it has, now i’m predicting that both will be gone, of course only with a new alias, at the end of the day. 🙂
@suhayl
“Who knows?”
The fundamentally scary thing is that we would not discount the possibility. It’s not the truth of the proposition that is frightening, it’s that gloomily acknowledged plausibility.
Dreoilin
22 Jun, 2013 – 2:52 pm
‘I haven’t updated myself as far as here. I just popped in to say that I’ll be back eventually. Too much of anything gets tiresome and this place had become tiresome to me. So I’m having a break.”
Dreolin too true, the place had become too tiresome — may be a little fresher now. Had Craig been reading the comments here he might, poor chap, have developed a pain in the other heel. Hope not and wish him well!
Even poor Technicolour was writing comments last night that she couldn’t believe for herself, of course, as well meant as always.
Thank you for your catalysing role though in bringing sanity back and wish you endless Universal energy.
Villager, Sovereignty is about to get a boost, that’s the part of the problem. A window is closing and the US permanent government wants to sneak through it in time. From the Rome Statute definition of aggression, Article 8 bis clause 2g, recently accepted by NATO linchpin Germany, aggression is also… “The sending by or on behalf of a State of armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries, which carry out acts of armed force against another State of such gravity as to amount to the acts listed above, or its substantial involvement therein.”
The prospect of US aggression in Iraq triggered a rush of accessions to the Rome Statute. If, when 8 bis enters into force, the US is still sending armed bands into the Mideast and violating Pakistan’s sovereignty with armed attacks against the civilian population, career planning gets trickier for aspiring elder statesmen like Obama and his CIA handler Ben Rhodes. No foreign Bilderberg holidays.
Brave men, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden.
“Government secrecy has been expanding on a terrific scale. Simultaneously, human privacy has been secretly eradicated … The U.S. government is spying on each and every one of us, but it is Edward Snowden who is charged with espionage for tipping us off.”
WikiLeaks’ Assange urges support for Snowden, slams Obama ‘betrayal’
By Laura Smith-Spark, CNN
June 22, 2013 — Updated 1513 GMT (2313 HKT)
London (CNN) — WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange urged the world Saturday to “stand with” Edward Snowden, the man who admitted leaking top-secret details about U.S. surveillance programs, according to the text of a speech posted on Twitter.
As he appealed for a “brave country” to step forward and offer Snowden asylum, Assange also accused U.S. President Barack Obama of betraying a generation of “young, technically minded people.”
Assange was scheduled to speak from the balcony of the Ecuadorian Embassy in London on Saturday, but the appearance was postponed at short notice “due to a security situation,” WikiLeaks said on Twitter.
Wednesday marked a year since Assange sought refuge in the embassy to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he is wanted for questioning over allegations that he raped one woman and sexually molested another.
/..
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/06/22/world/europe/uk-wikileaks-assange/?hpt=hp_t1
Since SS, you are on my site radar, I shall respond.
There are all kinds of theories about her murder – and that is quite clear – the only likely one she had was about Charles having it in for her, and in my theory, the Mossad was only doing the dirty work with the Benz, etc.
It all illustrates thinking that the wrong people are out to get you, making it most helpful for the real people who want you done in, do it.
Remember Hastings thought that the Bureau – which is quite happy to get rid of its own troublemakers, like agent Steve Ivens – was out to kill him when, at best, it was only setting him up for the Mossad.
This way Israel got rid of the strongest supporter, Di, of the Occupied Territories, and Charles got rid of what he thought was his biggest obstacle to becoming king.
Just shows what conspiracies can achieve, along with unexpected consequences or results.
You, Ben, are certainly on my site radar.
I think that codshit, like me, has not paid attention to the fact that Di was murdered.
i think that the Harrods connection put us off, and we never even suspected that the car’s driving computers had been taken over by the Mossad.
It was all the drinking, especially by the driver. that did it.
And killing neo.-Nazi Jorg Haider seemed like a one-off by the Mossad that we couldn’t get too excited about.
Killing not onlt Hastings but also Di will certainly get a new effort by me, and be posted somewhere.
Trolls don’t bother me and off topic I like.
Flouncers I find irritating.
Krupp, thank you for that valuable and sharp insight. Its amazing how quickly ‘actions’ can be put into place when paperwork can take years to negotiate through.
Btw, one doesn’t see China being very vocal at all on Syria. Where do they stand on this stark reality?
John Kerry accuses Assad of “internationalising” the war! These guys are lying fucking warmongers, there’s no other way to put it. Who’s been funding and arming the heart-eating animals al Nusra? Is Kerry on the same fucking planet as the rest of us?
The UN say there’s no way of telling who has used chemical weapons. Not a word of that on the BBC. Turn the thing off. Shun the liars.
@Villager. 4 38pm
WTF?
Sofia’s still lodged well up your nose?
She popped into being with the chosen purpose of distracting Habba in his relentless bullying of Mary. That was it.
She soon noticed that, though she was, by her own admission a fictional 13 and a half year old girl, she clearly got under the skin of these individuals, as some of your very unkrishnamurtian insults testify. So she felt she served a purpose. While time was spent targeting her, (she’s an angry, hormone-plagued girl who doesn’t give a shit what hypocritical grown-ups think of her), the real contributers could be left in peace to scurry through cyber-space collecting interesting links and facts.
But once she’d got found a channeller she wouldn’t shut up and soon enough she had broadened her horizons and was winding up others who she felt had a more subtle, but equally distracting, intention.
From the start she has kept the name-calling on the soft end of the spectrum, unless you think “old fool” and “plonker” are genuinely offensive. She was gratified to see what a venoumous and hysterical array of insults were returned, from yourself and others.
She also quickly noticed that things as harmless as a badly-spelt word or grammatical error would often evoke howls of indignant protest. She still finds that really funny.
Her only real regret is that, on occasion, she accidentally upset the very people she felt she was writing her stuff for. For that she’s sorry.
You seem to have quite an obsession with Kibo, who is clearly sometimes is moved by similar feelings.
She/he wasn’t the only poster covered by the blanket of “you know who you are.” There are just too many bright and compassionate posters on these threads for her to list. They all make her think. She appreciates them all.
So “at the end of the day” she thinks the rambling, anarchic and wonderful comment threads of Craig Murray’s blogs provide both great insight and occasional entertainment, which, to have real effect will hopefully percolate out into a myriad of world-changing conversations.
She didn’t intend any kind of goodbye. She was just saying she’d done some thinking and decided that it was delusional narratives rather than their promoters that she would try to address. How long she’ll manage to that is anyone’s guess.