GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people. I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying. What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.
Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK. For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse. Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK. The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state. Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.
I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government. Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites. But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low. Why?
Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted. I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation. There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.
There is more work for the UN on Syria. We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons. But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority. That needs to be restated, strongly. There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria – they are absolutely illegal. Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons. Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?
The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.
Dear Sofia,
As your father’s friend let me take you aside and share with you some home truths.
Behind the dogs of war are the Dogs of Ignorance. Your father and I have crossed swords several times but we overcame them through grace, articulation of argument, an openness to understand each other, eventual mutual human respect and not least a sense of humour.
You have a lot to learn about life, people, yourself. The latter apparently a self-propagated delusion as daughter of Habby. You might have pulled it off, had you half the sense of humour or intellect he has.
Sorry to ‘distract you’, quite what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.
As for the UN, talk to Krupp — he seems immensely clued on. Good luck with your mission to change the world.
Re “Re your final paragraph about Huxley and his friend K. I’m sorry but I just can’t understand it what it has got to do with any of this stuff. I’ve no argument with either of those great men.” Oh really, no argument, i’m sure they’re folding their hands in grace to be so lucky. But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time? Thats what it has to do with — not signing the next petition that comes along. I petition the Lord with prayer on your behalf.
“I remember sharing positive celebratory words with a young Belgian friend working with the EU commission and she cautioned with a well lets see if he acts on his promises now. How wise she was. How naive i was and still am.”
Krupp that my reference was with to Obama’s original election.
He has a lot more grey hair now but none the wiser imho.
@ Macky
You’re right, I do owe KingofWelshNoir a reply, which will follow tomorrow.
As far as you’re concerned, my foul-mouthed and intemperate friend, I thought I’d send you this rather appropriate limerick for your bedtime reading. Please think of yourself as Lord Garsall in all but rhyme :
“That snobbish surrealist, Garsall,
Once did himself up in a parcel;
He addressed it ‘Lord Garsall,
The Keep, Garsall Castle’
And mailed it first-class up his arsehole.”
Good heaven !!
Let that be a warning to everybody !
If you befriend Habbu-Clown, you too will end up like Villager !
Let it be a lesson in identifying any number of members of a tag team quicker.
At long last someone, somewhere has been forced to finally admit; the free ride is over! The fate of the US “democracy” brand is akin to that of ye olde USSR. Simply put, the US empire is imploding, and the last ditch attempts to keep it going (dronnings, wars, mass spying, repression, …..) are akin to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The medjia pundits can print their printers out of ink all they manage, alas the facts are not going to change.
Those of us who witnessed the implosion of the USSR, have for long seen the parallels in the recent events which have been unfolding. Why are the BRICs are crumbling? Welcome to the permanent revolution Note the last paragraph;
Sofia writes:
“Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled”
Absolutely!!
Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story. That’s the key. It isn’t built of falsifications and lies just cobbled together, any which way.
It has a fundamental narrative coherence, and that’s why it’s worked so well.
The fundamental narrative of the West is, “We’re the good guys”. We can incorporate any critical or negative fact to that narrative, by simply saying that any seeming deviation from our “goodness” is a result of bad apples, mistakes, poor leadership, bad planning, unforeseen circumstances, necessity, and of course there’ll be an enquiry and we’ll learn lessons, apologize and move on etc.
No matter what terror we visit upon others, the narrative, “We’re the good guys” thus remains.
The primary function of our media is to ensure that all discourse is pivoted around the idea that we’re the good guys; that even the most horrible and disgusting of our crimes can be incorporated within that narrative of essential goodness.
When the Pythons, at the setting of the sun upon the British Empire, asked ironically on behalf of its victims, “what have the Romans done for us”, they were essentially sustaining that narrative.
The reason we rule the world today, and have ruled it for some several centuries now is precisely because we are very very very bad guys.
And that’s a difficult narrative to sell to our own people.
Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.
There was a dull troll named Habbabkuk,
Who thought himself somewhat of a hot-shot,
Yet the only one who mistook him for genius,
Was the appropriately named Village idiot.
No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim –
now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:
“We reaffirm that in our endeavours we are guided by all the principles and purposes of the United Nations Charter and by full respect for the principles of international law. To this end we uphold the principles of sovereignty and sovereign equality of States, territorial integrity and non intervention in the internal affairs of any State; take effective measures for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of peace and encourage the settlement of international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered; refrain in international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations; develop friendly relations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self determination of peoples; achieve international cooperation in solving international problems of an economic, social, cultural or humanitarian character, and in promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion.”
Rule of law, that’s what they want. The US keeps it at bay only with exorbitant bribes and treacherous threats, pissing away its money and legitimacy. Every American hates their fucking government, hates it like the Germans hate the Stasi. Americans simply do not know of an alternative. Imagine if they found out what’s on offer in the civilized world.
Cryptonym @ 22 june “2;48 am
I have to Agree with that. Check out this video of Gaddafi Riding Through Tripoli Exposed from Waist up passing by many thousands of people. …Imagine Obomber, or cameron trying that one…The people would be well out numbered by the thugs in anti-riot armour
The data in this Video is all factual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRQ6uqhLvz8
Herbie 12 38am
Spot on!
“Sophisticated propaganda is built upon a false underlying narrative, myth, or story.”
Even a fake 13.5yr old can get that. Thanks
……………………………………
@Villager 11 41pm
Let’s do a trade. I’ll answer two of your questions and you answer one of mine.
You ask, “But do you have the foggiest understanding of the limitations of thought, of knowledge and the ending of time?”
Well no. Not really. Nowhere near in fact. But I try hard enough to understand the world I find myself in and the people I encounter.
You say “what i’m supposed to be distracting you from i haven’t figured.”
This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.
So, you have my two answers. Now let me ask you my question.
Wh
When you answered my earlier question, “Isn’t it the false narratives and constant propaganda that needs to be challenged and dismantled, rather than the individuals who peddle them?” with a patronising “You poor soul, you really are so lost”, just what did you mean?
I have fallen for this kind of distraction with you before, just as I have with Dad.
I’ve also had this experience before of asking you a reasonable question and getting patronising insults instead of answers.
I would love just this once to receive a genuine and clear reply.
I know you don’t think much of me and you are welcome to remind me again, but please reply to my question.
………………………………………….
Macky 12 39am
I see you too are a student of the great William McGonnigle. But will you take care with that poetry! You might wake Kibo’s muse and you never know, he may launch into a nightmare version of “The Ancient Mariner” and clog the whole blog for weeks. Gods help us.
Goodnight all.
I wish somebody would remind Villager (aka Kempe)& Co their virtual conga on this blog is fooling nobody. And Spurs fan Giles seems to have resurfaced
as a Diana fan (or was it Habbakyke replying to himself), seems very Herzliya to me! Mod Jon of course is your typical dumb goy, unable to see through this cabala cabal that has obfuscated the real issues in this blog.
@Brian.
I have also knowledge of Gaddafi- $13 cents a gallon, free health care, add underground water system for agriculture and gold dinah.
All of which are unsustainable.
As always, we haven’t all the knowledge/information.
@ Macky (00h39)
“Thanks for the non-original limerick dear Clown, but you’re certainly no Kingsley Amis.”
___________
Indeed not, Macky.
The limerick in question is quoted by Kingsley Amis in his “Memoirs” (Hutchinson, London, 1991, page 143); he ascribes it to Robert Conquest, writing under the pseudonym of Victor Gray.
Statement by Julian Assange after One Year in Ecuadorian Embassy
by Julian Assange
June 22nd, 2013
http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/statement-by-julian-assange-after-one-year-in-ecuadorian-embassy/
~~
Meanwhile another brave young man is being hunted down by Amerika’s paid thugs. The word on Sky News is that he has left HK and is heading for Russia.
~~
Phil @9.25pm I completely believe you.
To the others – Good for successfully withstanding the double act in the early hours and to Fred, yes shame about the clouds obscuring the perigee moon. Perhaps better luck tonight. Moon gazing is better for the soul than reading the garbage anyway.
Does anyone think the bodyguard, Rees-Jones, who survived the crash, has been frightened into silence? He seems to have experienced a rather conveniently circumscribed and permanent post-traumatic amnesia, even though, as far as one is aware, he remained conscious throughout his terrible ordeal.
To be honest, in my conspiratorial mind, I’d half-expected his car to come off the road some years later, or something similar, but fortunately for he and his family, that hasn’t happened. Just as, in not dissimilar fashion, after 2003 I’d fully expected the USA/UK to plant WMD in Iraq in order to justify their invasion and destruction of that country. But that never happened, either, though it would’ve been very easy to have done so. Instead, the intelligence services took the flak. One is aware that it was the chamcha, Blair who ‘needed’ that particular piece of PR theatre; the psychotic Bush Admininstration needed no justification for invasion, since they ‘created their own realities’.
Over the years, I have met people who have claimed that they have {I paraphrase] ‘done work for the government’ (the tacit assumption being that it was deniable, covert work, possibly Special Forces’ work) and who also claimed that their colleagues’ cars were [paraphrasing, again] ‘coming off the road… ‘. Indeed, ‘coming off the road’ seems to be a modus operandum, possibly because it’s so common in everyday life. As opposed to those other common metaphorical occurences of ‘going off the rails’ or ‘going round the bend’, perhaps.
Whether the alleged ‘Diana Op’ was done by the UK or the UK and allies (UK, France and the much-loved bogeyman, Israel – a familiar alliance dating back to Suez, at least?), as Vronsky rightly suggests it remains suspicious, even among those in the outer layers of the establishment who are not normally given to such speculation. But I suspect that whoever actually did the deed (if indeed a deed was done), if it was ordered, it would have been ordered, or agreed to, by elements within the UK hard state. It could not have been done without that active or tacit approval.
We probably will never know for certain, not even 100 years on.
*’Chamcha’ – ‘spoon’ in Urdu – the term means, arse-licker, toady, the imagery I think being that of a smooth, curved back, forever bending over in submission, waiting for the lash. Like many such ‘spoons’, Blair is a very rich and vicious chamcha. The memorable question, put to Blair by a journalist after the death of Dr David Kelly, “Mr Blair, do you have blood on your hands” now seems rather like Cleopatra asking an asp, “Mr Asp, do you have venom in your mouth?”
Sorry to butt in everyone.
Edward Snowden has just landed in Moscow, according to the South China Morning News:
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1267261/snowden-leaves-hong-kong-commercial-flight-moscow?login=1
Not sure where I’d guess for final destination. Birgitta Jonsdottir’s been tweeting that he shouldn’t come to Iceland as “political support for him is not guaranteed”. And I guess if it was there, he’d have come by the private plane that was chartered, unless that was somehow blocked because it was already known about. Ecuador, then? Or why not Russia? Putin has already publicly offered him asylum – and that’s some BIG muscle he’d have behind him…
And, yazzah!, it’s 9.16am GMT right now so he’s landing any minute now. Hrrraaaayyyyyyyyy!!!
It’s official. The state broadcaster confirms it.
23 June 2013 Last updated at 09:13
Edward Snowden leaves Hong Kong on Moscow flight Breaking news
US intelligence fugitive Edward Snowden has flown out of Hong Kong, the Chinese territory’s government has confirmed.
The South China Morning Post quoted “credible sources” as saying he was due to arrive in Moscow on Sunday evening.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23019414#
Note he is an ‘intelligence fugitive’ and no longer a whistleblower.
Thanks for your report on the usual political policing, Phil, Its good to see someone putting their money were their mouth is on here.
Thanks for the update on the big DNA steal. I shall send a letter to my GP telling him that they have no authorisation to divulge my private DNA data to any third party outside the NHS.
The reciprocal agreement between EU countries to treat each others residents, does not contain any provisions for such horse trading, afaik, and any future disclosure of information other than that of British subject should not be allowed.
It is an ancient Bloggtroll,
Pistoffeth two of three………
Noooo!! Not even Kibo is that cruel.
You could always have blamed Macky.
.
So, back to the topic.
“States that provide arms have responsibilities in terms of the eventual use of those arms to commit … war crimes or crimes against humanity,”
Paulo Pinheiro, chairman of the UN commission’s inquiry into rights violations in Syria.
Good to see stirrings of life in the UN.
From: http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-105/
.
@ phil 9 25pm
Thanks .
Is your experience part of the slippery slope?
http://mwcnews.net/focus/editorial/6315-israeli-settlers-terror.html
I say good luck to Ed Snowden – he is a patriot, not a traitor. The traitors are those who set up systems which breach the Bill of Rights, break US and UK laws, and break international laws. The latest reports say that he is flying out of Moscow onward to another destination.
We need the people to wake up. If NSA and GCHQ have access to all network traffic, this includes banking transactions for example. This is a breach of security which is unauthorised and is unlawful. It is all very well Messrs. Obama and Hague patting us on the head and saying that NSA and GCHQ are run by nice guys who care about our security, but access to banking and business networks is an open door for organised crime to infiltrate.
If one bona fide 30yr old in-house idealist can copy out and publish the information Snowden has, then what scope is there for others far dodgier within this vast surveillance system to access information which we all believe to be secure, and then to do a lot of more significant damage.
Did this happen on Tony Blair’s watch, or has it mushroomed since then?
Hi Arbed, yes i agree, why not Russia? Iceland does sound a bit iffy. But its a pity that he couldn’t stay on in HongKong. If i understand it correctly, he may have had to spend a long time jailed there while he fought an extradition request. At least he’s likely to be free in Moscow while he considers other options. Choosing Ecuador could have the risk of complicating Assange’s own ongoing negotiations, i suspect. But i share your ‘Hooray”.
Its difficult to read the Chinese mind — if you should come across an article clarifying that, along with the hard legal position in HongKong, please do share it. Please do stay in touch. Thanks.
Traditional Chinese Simplified Chinese Email this article news.gov.hk
HKSAR Government issues statement on Edward Snowden
***************************************************
The HKSAR Government today (June 23) issued the following statement on Mr Edward Snowden:
Mr Edward Snowden left Hong Kong today (June 23) on his own accord for a third country through a lawful and normal channel.
The US Government earlier on made a request to the HKSAR Government for the issue of a provisional warrant of arrest against Mr Snowden. Since the documents provided by the US Government did not fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law, the HKSAR Government has requested the US Government to provide additional information so that the Department of Justice could consider whether the US Government’s request can meet the relevant legal conditions. As the HKSAR Government has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr Snowden from leaving Hong Kong.
The HKSAR Government has already informed the US Government of Mr Snowden’s departure.
Meanwhile, the HKSAR Government has formally written to the US Government requesting clarification on earlier reports about the hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by US government agencies. The HKSAR Government will continue to follow up on the matter so as to protect the legal rights of the people of Hong Kong.
Ends/Sunday, June 23, 2013
Issued at HKT 16:05
NNNN
Sorry to have doubled up there Arbed. It was hilarious that the state broadcaster was issuing that breaking news at the same time as their reporter in HK (Southworth) was speculating at length on where Edward Snowden would be heading.
Keep up ZBC.
~~
Their reporter Ms Knell reports on the win of the young singer from the refugee camp in Gaza. This made a change from her usual work of issuing propaganda for Israel. She cannot resist a little go in the aidebox though.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923
‘Gaza has not seen celebrations or such outpouring of emotion since the end of last year’s conflict with Israel….’
Come off it Ms Knell. It is not a ‘conflict’. It was a fully militarized war by Israel against a captive people with a few rockets. The episode she refers to was named by the Israeli government as Pillar of Cloud, another OT trope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillar_of_Cloud
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23017923
“Krrup
23 Jun, 2013 – 12:39 am
No, 2/3 shouldn’t be hard: c.f. the G-77+China, http://www.g77.org/doc/#aim –
now 4/5 of the world’s population and 2/3 of the UN membership vote:”
Krrup that’s good to know. Yes the G-77 was very active during the Cold War period. Their relevance remains as we see Wars strewn around with ever increasing numbers of casualties and increasing clashes of cultures. The UN is going to have to reinvent itself if it is going to have any credibility. Do you see that as realistic trend, or is it a pipe-dream? I fear top ‘leaders’ are so busy putting out internal fires that the thrust of attending with real strategic shifts is being neglected.
Villager, 9.52am
Chances that Edward Snowden’s final destination might be Ecuador are quite high, I think. Wikileaks’ press spokesman Kristinn Hrafnsson flew to Ecuador and he’s there right now:
http://english.ruvr.ru/2013_06_23/WikiLeaks-Assange-Snowden-and-all-of-us-are-winning-Hrafnsson-9756/
and he was the person who Snowden contacted for help in requesting asylum in Iceland:
https://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/Wikileaks_Prepared_to_Help_Snowden_Get_to_Iceland_0_400758.news.aspx
Maybe Iceland said No. I don’t think it’s likely to complicate Assange’s asylum at all (in fact, I think it would help put more pressure on the UK to give up their ridiculous stance that an invalid EAW [because they’re not supposed to be used for mere questioning] trumps international refugee law). Correa reiterated support for Assange only yesterday – says he’s welcome to stay in the embassy as long as needed and his asylum causes “no problems for Ecuador”:
http://multimedia.telesurtv.net/media/telesur.video.web/telesur-web/#!es/video/rafael-correa-ratifica-apoyo-a-julian-assange
“This thread has a title, “Work for the UN.” Yes, you are distracting me from engaging with the subject of the thread.”
Well Krrup and i haven’t allowed ourselves to be distracted. We’ve been engaged in a very interesting conversation and i have learnt a lot from him. Please feel free to engage with him. It really is a very crucial subject relevant to all us global villagers in these critical times.
Get back to you later on other ‘stuff’, but meantime if you can please help dig out my alleged earlier insults to you, I will be grateful.
Thanks for that Arbed, and at an intellectual level you are right about Ecuador. I still worry that at a pragmatic level the powers that be will be vindictive towards Assange because of his role in helping Snowden and will be cheesed off with Correa.
Is there a credible current analysis of what Assanges options really are? Being granted a diplomatic passport by Ecuador? The European Courts? There must be some game-plans.
Hi Villager,
Must be Ecuador:
WikiLeaks @wikileaks 12m
FLASH Snowden está ahora en espacio aéreo ruso y lo acompañan asesores legales de Wikileaks.
Expand
Reply Retweet Favourite More
WikiLeaks @wikileaks 15m
FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors.
Expand
WikiLeaks @wikileaks 40m
FLASH:Wikileaks ayuda al asilo politico de Snowden, facilitando documentos y salida segura de HK hacia un pais democratico. Mas info pronto
Expand
WikiLeaks @wikileaks 46m
FLASH: WikiLeaks has assisted Mr. Snowden’s political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers ans safe exit from Hong Kong. More soon.
I’m guessing the tweets in Spanish are a big clue… haha!
Well done, Ecuador! Well done. You have the world’s thanks for this one.
(And no small thanks due to Assange too – He’s been campaigning for Snowden like a demon. Reporters at the conference call he held with Dan Ellsberg and Thomas Drake last Wednesday said he seemed dog-tired and virtually incoherent at times, then he cancelled his speech yesterday so I guessed no sleep for days straight while he’s been busy trying to negotiate getting Snowden the hell out of Hong Kong to somewhere safe.)
Tony, thanks for your post with the HK statement — putting it to us straight from the horse’s mouth as it were. Combined with your and Arbed’s comments, it is a refreshing change from the ticker-tape style ‘breaking news’ that tends to show up with predictable frequency, with no depth or value-add, just a need to be there first.