GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people. I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying. What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.
Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK. For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse. Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK. The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state. Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.
I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government. Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites. But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low. Why?
Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted. I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation. There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.
There is more work for the UN on Syria. We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons. But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority. That needs to be restated, strongly. There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria – they are absolutely illegal. Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons. Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?
The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.
Ben,
it flew north of Iceland. So far north that it was out of range of the transponder ground receivers used by the flight trackers.
Just entered Canadian airspace now.
Thanks, Anon. I think I did check the destination airport, but it was a small place and all arrivals weren’t listed, like they would be in Dublin or London. I know I did something more than watch the tracker. But it was a while ago.
Good one about the blacked out windows!
@Villager,
“With all the State-muscle supporting Snowden, why would he risk taking an ordinary commercial flight?”
Indeed. Some guy had a private plane waiting I think (saw a mention on Twitter) but it wasn’t used. Unless it WAS used, and we haven’t heard about it. And he has a bit of an entourage, with a Wikileaks person and a couple more, so there’s a group of them. OR, maybe they’re decoys and he’s travelling alone. Who knows. I hope he gets away!
Thanks Anon.
FFS ! The flight path is right over the Eastern seaboard. The US, feckless as they’ve been surely see that.
Imagine the reaction should military force an Aeroflot down
Thanks Ben. I never found out what happened about the tracking of that plane. Maybe radio interference as you say. Or transponder off. But once he had checked in with me, I pretty much forgot about it.
Phil
24 Jun, 2013 – 5:52 pm
“I’ve just looked at the Al-Hilli thread. Wow. It’s like discovering a huge crazy eco system going on in the kid’s bedroom. I’d heard some gossip but the reality is something else. I recall it has had a death (Anders). Has there been any babies I should know about?”
A few toady-little green tadpoles yes, babies, no.
Yes Ben, and there’s a ready made space for Snowden to hide in. On the current flight path it looks like someone is tempting Obama to order it intercepted…
http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a330family/a330-200/
Chief troll
There is a gold Rolex clock prominently placed on the scoreboard wall so that when the camera is focused on the server, the clock is in view.
Even Pippa has enough sense not to wear a clock on her wrist.
You are being as silly as ever.
Anon;
” it looks like someone is tempting Obama to order it intercepted…”
It would be incredibly unwise, and unlike this timid and cautious POTUS to order it.
But then, he’s just a figurehead, and not in control of his Junta.
I am sure we are going to be told all the facts!
The Police’s Dirty Secret, Dispatches tonight on C4, 8pm
Dispatches exposes the shocking story of Britain’s secret police and how undercover officers reportedly used sex and lies to spy on members of the public.
The programme reveals the names of high-profile targets spied on by the police.
Through the personal testimony of a whistleblower who operated deep undercover for four years, the film examines the ethically dubious tactics of a clandestine unit within the Metropolitan police.
Tasked with infiltrating political campaigns and protest groups, it operated under the unofficial motto ‘By any means necessary’.
The programme speaks exclusively to the women who say their lives have been wrecked after being spied upon; and who reveal how they were duped into sexual relationships with men they didn’t even know were cops.
One of the women reveals the heart-wrenching story of how she was also deceived into having a child with a police spy.
5:41pm UK, Monday 24 June 2013
Fugitive whistleblower Edward Snowden is healthy and safe, says WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, but he refused to reveal his whereabouts.
Assange confirmed the former CIA intelligence analyst has applied for asylum in Ecuador, Iceland, and possibly other countries.
He said he knew where Snowden was, describing it as a “safe place”. However, he would not give any other details.
/..
http://news.sky.com/story/1107567/whistleblower-snowden-healthy-and-safe
Mary and Habbabkuk, just a plea from me (“and who am I, for I know nothing…”, as the guru in ‘Head’ said) to maybe have a truce or something between the two of you. I mean, commenting and disagreeing on this or that is super, but this kind of tennis, tit-for-tat, thing just attacking each other’s characters or whatever, has run its course, I think. Please don’t take this the wrong way. It’s just that it’s come to run thorugh, and may to begin to dominate, every thread. It’s not my blog, though.
Might it be best simply to say (silently, to oneself), ‘Look, I think that poster is a twerp, and so I’m going to ignore them and just stick to commenting on the subject matter, regardless of who is presenting it’? I think both of you have made the core points about each other’s poster-personas. We get it. Thank you.
Now, hit me with your rhythm sticks!
thank you Suhayl, you have earned a cup of the best Assam, just under one minute, no squeezing of the tea bag. Enjoy!
Thanks, Nevermind! You make an excellent brew!
Exactly, Dreolin, who knows. There is clearly a spy vs spy game on, and both the Russians and the Chinese are masters at it.
The good thing is Assange has confirmed he’s in a safe location. It wouldn’t surprise me if we don’t hear anything for awhile. This is now very serious business.
Re: the Hong-Kong to Moscow flight, apart from pics, did you see any reports from other passengers at all that they even saw him?
No Suhayl, as you’re one of the (much) more sensible posters on this blog I would never hit you with a stick, verbal or physical, rhythmically or arhythmically! 🙂
Habbabkuk – did you miss the Ian Dury reference? Interesting.
@ Flaming June
Ok OK, I thought you were perhaps using ‘clock’ colloquially in place of ‘watch’. After all, most of the rest of your squib was about the rather delicious Pippa (here I go again! Nigella, now Pippa…) and since I haven’t looked at Wimbledon on the television I was unaware of the existence of a big Rolex clock.
And this explanation is a lot more than you deserve! 🙂
@ Anon,
No, no, I got it. He died a couple of years ago, didn’t he.
Was it Dury or Drury, I don’t recall.
“did you see any reports from other passengers at all that they even saw him?”
Not a peep, Villager. I’d say there’s a good chance he never went to Moscow at all.
Suhayl I respect you. I wish you had not given equivalence. The hectoring and jibes have been fairly continuous since last November and I have tried to show restraint by not responding to them. Sometimes, as in the last day or so, I have risen to them a few times and now find I am tarred with the same brush of being a nuisance which I rather resent.
We shall see how things pan out. Most of my posts are factual links etc anyway and do not contain much in the way of opinion so there should be no reason for them to be trolled.
No need for an answer. Craig’s new post is much more important.
Al-Hilili’s brother has been arrested for conspiracy to murder….I look forward with unalloyed pleasure to the sight of so many people – including some of the most eminent of the Eminences on this blog…having to eat humble pie, crow and their hats. And I hope they choke while doing so.
Habbabkuk
I am pleased to see that you have tempered some of your earlier ‘exhuberance’ and seem, accordingly, to be getting on much better with people here. I would even venture to suggest you are quite enjoying yourself.
So may I offer the following observation (with respect to Al-Hilili), in all humility and in genuine good faith:
Gloating is ugly, and only diminishes the person who does it.
IMHO.
It’s your big test. Are you man enough? (Assuming you are a man of course).
Answers on a postcard if anyone can explain these words of wisdom;
Veracious strength will enhance the power of intention required to honor the deserving.
😯
@ KingofWelshNoir :
I cannot resist answering your kind post.
“I am pleased to see that you have tempered some of your earlier ‘exhuberance’”
Oh dear! I must be ageing prematurely. I’ll try and do better in future.
“I would even venture to suggest you are quite enjoying yourself.”
You are right.
“and in genuine good faith:”
I accept that.
“(Assuming you are a man of course).”
Are we not all a mixture of male and female chromosones?
“Gloating is ugly, and only diminishes the person who does it.”
You are right. But there’s always a but. I followed the Al-Hilili thread until it got to around 1000 comments and then stopped, finding that it had got a little sterile. I noticed that people were interested and stimulated by the event – which is only human of course, it’s why murder mysteries have alqays sold well. But would you not agree that (most) let themselves be totally carried away by their determination to see a dastardly state conspiracy behind the murders? And one originating, of course, in the West and/or Israel? (Do you remember, for example, the frenzied theorizing about the ‘presence of an Israeli general from the Paris Embassy at a small airfield a mere 20 minutes away from the scene of the murders?).In other words, it was an event which lent itself too easily to serve as an underpinning of people’s fixed ideas and prejudices. I submit that it was that which was what was truly ugly, and not my so-called gloating. (Rather than ‘gloating’ I should use the words “quiet satisfaction which I am unable not to share with fellow-commenters 🙂 ).
@ The CE
One would have to have the intellect of an Einstein or the psychological training of a Freud to be able to explain them.
But I am bold enough to hazard a guess as to their ‘author’. Your starter for ten : Ben Franklin? Mark Golding? Cryptonym as a rank ousider?
You’re good Habba, much more Freud than Einstein(be careful about mentioning old Einy, it’ll get him in a spin about Ziowhatvers) I would argue.
The one and only Mark Golding.
Truly horrendous prose. A Bad English nomination beckons surely.
@ Suhayl
Mary’s response to your suggestion/appeal/invitation makes me wonder whether I should also respond. But I have set out my ‘position’ several times before (“posts passim” as Doug Scorgie would probably not allow me to say) and really wonder whether I have to go to the trouble of doing so yet again?
The only thing I would say right now is that one certainly comes across many twerps during normal life and, on the whole, one doesn’t call them out. But this is a public blog and it could be argued that he /she who brings his points of view to the attention of a wide audience must be prepared for those points of view to be challenged by at least some members of that wide audience. That the original poster should react badly to any such challenges is his/her problem and not mine. N’est-ce pas?
@ The CE
Yeaaahhh! Do you know, I feel rather proud of myself! 🙂
But on the other hand, you have already seen a demonstration of my forensic/linguistic skills as applied to the identification of posters, haven’t you…
All my best to you and your Polish lady!
Re Edward Snowden in Russia
It’s a bit late in the day now, of course, but I should have been slightly less inclined to put my trust in the Russkies.
Memories perhaps of the exchanges at the German-Soviet partition line in martyred Poland in 1939 : exiled Trotskyites and other handed over to the NKVD by the Gestapo and exiled German communists handed over to the Gestapo by the NKVD.
Just a thought.
Thanks for replying, Mary and Habbabkuk.
I was not attempting to apportion equivalance or non-equivalence. And arguing for and against a point-of-view is what a political blog is all about.
My suggestion was simply to try to depersonalise it all and to try to resist the temptation to respond to every single invitation to attack the poster (as opposed to the ideas presented).
My other point was that the interaction has been made clear for a while now, so that one understands the two positions; argunably they do not need constantly to be reiterated in ever-creasing circles and in fact doing so risks detracting from the dialectical position of the one iterating at the time. Engaging in constant personal verbal warfare may be entertianing for a while, but risks turning the blog – or at least, threads within it – into a binary function as others get sucked into supporting one or other of the protagonists.
This is a plea to you both. Well, I’ve said my piece on the nmatter. Just some morsels for thought. Thanks for reading. Best wishes to you both.