GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people. I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying. What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.
Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK. For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse. Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK. The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state. Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.
I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government. Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites. But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low. Why?
Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted. I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation. There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.
There is more work for the UN on Syria. We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons. But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority. That needs to be restated, strongly. There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria – they are absolutely illegal. Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons. Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?
The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.
No Jemand no special status. You know very well that I have repeatedly said that it is Craig’s blog and the mentions of me and my name have been unsolicited, unwanted and extremely embarrassing.
Those who complain about the loss of free speech here are those who have attempted to limit the free speech of others.
I said I would not be communicating any more with Dreoilin so I will not respond to her latest. No desire to pick at wounds, mine or others. I too am going out for some fresh air.
Just saw that your PM is a goner Jemand.
Back to Rudd so the Zionist support by Australia continues.
Kevin Rudd ousts Australia Prime Minister Julia Gillard
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23061391#
So…proposals to
1. Have foreign students pay a cash bond to study here..
2. Have welfare claimants speak English.
A cynic might then conclude the Tory strategists are looking for UKIP votes.
Perish the thought!
Yes, Flaming Mary, our pro-US PM has just been replaced by some guy who you think is a pro-Israel flunky. You’re such a reknowned expert on Oz politics that I won’t debate the veracity of your claims. And, by your tone, I see that I am somehow responsible or guilty by proxy – a bit like a black kid standing near a burning car.
You are indeed special, Mary.
“A new Israeli television channel called “i24news” that will go out in English, French and Arabic is to begin broadcasting by summer this year, AFP reported.”
“The channel, which is based in Jaffa Port just south of Tel Aviv, aims to rival global news outlets like Al-Jazeera and France 24, its executives say.”
“i24news “will broadcast news from the heart of Middle East,” the channel said in a statement.”
“The letter ‘i’ was chosen as representing several of the topics and values that will guide the channel: international, information, independent, individual, innovation, interactive, etc.”
[Yes we believe you]
“An Internet site in the same languages will also be launched at the same time at web address http://www.i24news.tv”
“Content production will be headed by Israeli TV executives, notably Haim Slutzky, a producer for Channel 8 television.”
“The channel will be partially funded by Franco-Israeli businessman and telecoms tycoon Patrick Drahi, and Frank Melloul, a former French government adviser on security and disarmament, will be its chief executive.”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/166934
Might be worth watching.
Jemand
26 Jun, 2013 – 1:54 pm
“Yes, Flaming Mary, our pro-US PM has just been replaced by some guy who you think is a pro-Israel flunky. You’re such a reknowned [sic] expert on Oz politics that I won’t debate the veracity of your claims.”
Why are you not willing to debate the issue Jemand?
If Mary is wrong you can put her right by using your undoubted debating skills.
Looks like Craig has been busy deleting from Ghana. Or else Jon is on duty. Mary’s re-posting of her comment to me + my reply to her are now both gone.
Thank you, Dougie, for encouraging a debate on this pressing issue as if I am somehow obliged to respond to empty challenges posed by passing hobos on this blog. But what is the issue you are so keen for us to debate, assuming that Flaming Mary is the kind of visitor who actually engages in debate and not just the dump-n-runs we’ve all come to expect? That Rudd is or isn’t a Zionist? Let me save us all some time and direct you to the infinite wisdom of google for an authoritative answer to that burning question. You will forgive me for not being more engaging but I am busy having to check that the flap on the water meter is down. Sorry.
Dreoilin, without having first read the deleted posts I/we can’t know what is being deleted. Did it turn to shit after only a few posts? What a shambles.
Oh, i see what you mean Dreoilin – this thread. I thought you meant the new one on Guana. My comments have been deleted. I have no more respect for this blog now that it has turned into a propaganda machine.
We’ll see how long my benign comments last.
“Dreoilin, without having first read the deleted posts I/we can’t know what is being deleted. Did it turn to shit after only a few posts? What a shambles.”
No Jemand, there was Mary’s original re-posting, my reply to her, your comment, and my reply to you. Those four are gone, and what’s left now is from Mary saying “Back to the UN…”
I think it might be Craig (and it’s his blog, so I suppose he can do what he likes) but Jon used to put in a “placeholder” saying he had deleted something, giving a reason, and leaving the poster’s name in place.
I’d prefer Jon’s method (or Jon’s old method) myself. At least it was obvious what was gone and why.
“Oh, i see what you mean Dreoilin – this thread. I thought you meant the new one on Guana. My comments have been deleted.”
Oops, no, hadn’t seen that at all. I’ll go and have a look.
Sorry Dreoilin, let me clarify. I now understand that several of my comments here have been deleted, none of only two on the Guana thread as I write. Whether it’s Craig or Jon doing the improvement of blog history, and they can do what they like, this blog cannot be called liberal and uncensored anymore.
‘And if you had seen what she wrote to me last night’….
This exaggeration is still here from an earlier post by Dreoilin from which the reader would think that I had directed a load of vitriol, insults, character assassinations etc etc towards her. I did not as I said in my deleted post.
Now I see that counter terrorist expert, and America’s closest friend of Israel Richard Clarke, has stated the obvious about the murder of reporter Michael Hastings – it could easily have been the result of a car cyber attack where the driver lost control of everything electrical in the Mercedes coupe.
The only thing that he forgot to mention was the car was also outfitted with a bomb, so the ensuring fireball destroyed all the evidenced that the car had been hacked.
Looks like covert work of some developed government, and Clarke being so helpful to Israel in the past, one is more inlined to think that it is just more handiwork by the Mossad, like in the most apparent murders of Princess Di, and Austrian right-winger Jorg Haider
Improving History –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship#Political
Note the doctored photo of Stalin.
Jemand,
There is great encouragement for banning/deleting going on on this thread
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/the-man-who-didnt-disappoint/
“Craig and Jon need to deal with this.”
I saw some of that Dreoilin. This incident will have a lasting impact on the credibility of this blog and will polarise attitudes that will certainly favour the in-group and antagonise independents, of which I consider myself to be one. The tone, if the in-group prevail as a protected cliche, will become increasingly self-congratulatory until it reads like some sickly love-in.
“This exaggeration is still here from an earlier post by Dreoilin from which the reader would think …”
Are you asking that I be deleted Mary?
@ Dreoilin, Jemand, etc
And I notice that a post of mine from earlier today – on the subject of deleting posts, definitions, etc, couched in perfectly polite language had also disappeared.
I cannot believe that it was Craig who was doing the deleting – and especially not from Ghana.
If it was the moderator, I would ask him again to think carefully before pursuing this line. And it he does, he should signal that a deletion has taken place and give the reason why.
Jemand:
“I now understand that several of my comments here have been deleted, none of only two on the Guana thread as I write. Whether it’s Craig or Jon doing the improvement of blog history, and they can do what they like, this blog cannot be called liberal and uncensored anymore.”
Dreolin:
” There is great encouragement for banning/deleting going on on this thread”
Yes D and J, i agree with you, its quite revolting. And it all looks rather random to me. I think it was you Jemand that pointed out the irony that this is happening in the Snowden era!
As Dreolin points out, all kinds of other aggressive posts and posturing on the other thread — makes one very uncomfortable to the point of feeling sick, frankly. All so immature, its unbelievable.
And not one mention by Jon re the sock-puppeting that had been going on. I would’ve thought that that is crossing a red-line but apparently not. I predict it’ll repeat because of the over-zealousness of these children.
And then all these people stuck in weeks, if not months, old history (going back to ‘April Showers’) can’t get a move on and deal with the present.
Funny, while i’m typing, this Kibo Noh aka Sofia has now turned up as David on the latest thread! I just predicted it — am typing slow/multi-tasking and getting a peek in the other thread too.
Here she is…go to..
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/06/pandering-to-racism/#comment-414814
With respect to all that are objective, firmly objective and with supple and open minds (which includes the heart)!
Habbabkuk, it’s looking more and more like a photo album with missing photos and people cut out of family portraits. Discussions are now fragmented and unintelligible. As long as this program of censorship continues, there will be continued protests and a growing well of badwill. I’m sure Jon will be busy deleting comments that reveal this censorship. How long will it last before either he or Craig makes a statement justifying this interdiction? This matter has been very badly handled.
All four of us – me, H, V and D – have variously exchanged unfriendlies at one time or another but on this matter, it appears that we are solidly united in our rejection of this unprofessional action on a once free and open forum. If Craig wants it to be that way, so be it. But it will come at a cost to the image and credibility of this blog. And people don’t forget.
You’ll notice that the comments which are being deleted are of the tedious ‘you’re off topic … well you started it … no you did, when you called me a …. when I called you that I was referring to a post 4 months ago where you …’ variety.
You’ll further notice that non personal comments addressing and debating issues aren’t being deleted.
Hmmmm, what can it all possibly mean …..?
This deletion business, as well as seeming to be biassed and having as a result that ‘dissident’ comments are removed in furtherance of la pensée unique, is shambolic.
The comments I posted this morning, as I said above, have been deleted but two responses to them remain (Komodo at 12h15 and Macky at 12h21).
This may be inadvertent from Jon, but it does show that if the moderator doesn’t have the time to do deletions properly then he shouldn’t be deleting at all.
Why not pre-moderate? Jo could do it whenever he had time (there would probably be fewer comments anyway. Sure, this would mean that comments would take longer to appear, but so what? The only commenter really likely to suffer would be Mary, whose running news service would lose most of any point it might have.
I should of course have added that pre-moderation would of course require the elaboration of community rules for posting.
BTW, I suggest pre-moderation only as a way of at least ensuring some consistency and not because I am in favour of it per se.
Jemand, i am solidly with you.
Separately, I myself have been accused of sock-puppeting more than once. Reason: because i agree with one person one minute if i do, and disagree the next day if thats what one believes.
But as you say, free and open!
—–
And Habby, i can vouch for that perfectly polite language. Just read some of the flowery, yet gross stuff that gets posted and sometimes i bet you they think its funny. Macky and his McJuvenile pics come to mind. What a loser!
Third comment (sorry, I read slowly 🙂 ) :
“But it will come at a cost to the image and credibility of this blog. And people don’t forget.”
____________
Yes. This is apparently the third most read political blog (presumably on the UK?). The news will of course get out and will no doubt cause great satisfaction to a number of people, who might even be tempted to say (touted proportions gardées, of course) that dissent and speaking out on this blog is being treated somewhat similarlt to the way Craig was treated by his former employers.
“This may be inadvertent from Jon, but it does show that if the moderator doesn’t have the time to do deletions properly then he shouldn’t be deleting at all.”
Again, agreed totally. It does give an impression of it being whimsical. Face it, Jon doesn’t have the time. As thankless the ‘job’ may be, its true.
The pendulum’s swinging!
If you think the current/recent configurations is problematic, Macky, you should’ve seen the blog before it had moderators. So long as personal attacks are avoided, actually nowadays the meat of what’s discussed/disagreed about is engaging and I tend to learn a lot – information, history, ways of viewing things and so on. I wouldn’t want an echo chamber – that would drive me insane, insane, insane, insane… !
Cup of tea, anyone?