GCHQ and the NSA between them employ tens of thousands of people. I am bemused by the shock at the “revelation” they have been spying. What on Earth did journalists think that spies do all day? That includes electronics spies.
Since Katherine Gun revealed that we spy on other delegations – and the secretariat – within the UN building, it is hardly a shock that we spy on other governments at summits in the UK. For once, the government cannot pretend that the object is to save us all from terrorism, which is the usual catch all excuse. Nor in the real world is any of the G20 nations a military threat to the UK. The real truth of the matter is that our spies – GCHQ, MI5 and MI6 – are themselves a large and highly influential interest block within the state. Lots of people make a great deal of money out of the security state, and this kind of activity is actually simply an excuse for taking money from taxpayers – which is from everyone who has ever bought anything – and giving that money to the “security industry”.
I do not view spying on other governments as quite as despicable as spying on ordinary citizens, which is an unspeakable betrayal of the purpose of government. Spying on other governments is a game they all play to extort money each to their own security elites. But I will say that spying on the South African government seems pretty low. Why?
Interception of diplomatic communications is plainly a gross breach of the Vienna Conventions, even if the forms of communication have changed since they were drafted. I have never studied the particulars of international law as they relate to spying, but it seems to me an area that in the modern world needs regulation. There must be room here for the UN to be involved in preparing a Convention to outlaw the interception of international communications, with recourse to the International Court of Justice for those victim of it.
There is more work for the UN on Syria. We should all be grateful that Russia is holding out against the very dubious western claims that the Syrian government has deployed chemical weapons. But while Obama can declare all the red lines he wishes, they do not give any country a right to take action on Syrian soil without UN authority. That needs to be restated, strongly. There is no basis at all for the continued and massive Israeli attacks on Syria – they are absolutely illegal. Israeli strikes have definitely killed more people than the alleged deaths from chemical weapons. Can someone explain to me why that is not a red line?
The UN Secretary General should be speaking out, and the UN Security Council should be meeting, to discuss the Israeli attacks on Syria. The system of international law has broken down irretrievably.
O/T
Jemand posted a link on another thread to the film which set out to discredit Assange and how it is losing money at the box office.
http://www.technewsdaily.com/18368-wikileaks-film-flop-scores-on-bittorrent-sites.html
Shame! That is, shame on them for ever having produced it.
O/T?? Perhaps the O/T policemen will rule.
Karzai takes control over all military operations in Afghanistan. The wily old devil survived to the end.
There are 97,000 ISAF forces present and the Afghan forces number 320,000. Jonathan Beale BBC, reporting from Kabul, has just said that 3 – 4% of the number desert each month. If he really meant that 10,000+ become deserters, they will all be gone within a year? Unbelievable.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22942013#
Slimeball Rasmussen was there to give the official handover. Why weren’t Bush and B.Liar there too to see completion of their flawed project?
All those lives lost over the last 12 years and all the billions of £s and $s down the drain.
Cheering news there John about Gibney. Perhaps he would like to experience incarceration himself. There was jeering last night on Sky News when they were reviewing the papers. Ms Botting, Pierce of the Mail and the Mirror’s McGuire were all having a good laugh at Julian and his plight.
Medialens on the film at the end of last month.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1369617541.html
Gibney has been prolific. Wonder who funded his new flop?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Gibney
Thanks John Goss regarding the box office failure of Alex Gibney’s film “We Steal Secrets: The Story of Wikileaks”.
According to the link John posted above, various torrent websites (including http://isohunt.com) have facilitated copying of the film and this is believed to have had an impact on the box office receipts for the film.
ATTENTION: While there is almost zero chance of you being prosecuted for downloading an unauthorised copy of the film and it is very easy and quick to do so, and you probably wouldn’t pay good money to watch this propaganda anyway, downloading and viewing the film is not encouraged by me, Craig Murray or anybody else here. Visiting the website and viewing the download availability is not illegal so I do encourage anybody to do this for research purposes.
There is a lot of tabloid stuff in the Irish Independent about the Obama clan visit. viz.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/first-lady-michelle-obama-touches-down-in-dublin-with-daughters-29350499.html
The BBC have a headline
‘Irish boy struck dumb by First Lady Michelle Obama’ !!!
Then I saw this and SCREAMED.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/obamas-accept-bonos-invitation-to-dine-in-dalkey-29352204.html
’18 June 2013 – The sleepy South Dublin village is used to seeing famous faces, but today is to play host to the world’s most famous family, as the Obamas are expected to take up an invite from Bono and stop off for lunch.’
in the light of:
Bono and GM and Monsanto
http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-06-02/bono-sides-with-monsanto-and-agribusiness-to-complete-africas-destruction-with-gmos/
Bono and Africa – Monbiot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/17/bono-africans-stealing-voice-poor
Facts about GMOs http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/06/ban-gmos-now/
Q. Will Monsanto et al benefit from an enlarged EU/US trade area? Silly question.
Is the Irish press more craven than the British, or just the same?
The Irish News, a Northern Irish paper, is owned by the Northern Media Group. It has a net worth of ‘net worth’ of £-7,228,610 ???
Directors https://www.duedil.com/company/NI059747/northern-media-group-ltd/people
Its article on Obama’s speech to the schoolchildren is discussed here.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1371547161.html
The Irish Independent is owned by the O’Reillys AFAIK, previous owners of the Independent in this country.
I remain baffled by the position of progressives with regard to the surveillance state. On the one hand they are appalled. ‘How dare they spy on us,’ they say, as if the saying is enough to hold power to account. On the other hand they then follow up their legitimate criticisms with the caveat — the MASSIVE caveat – that ‘well, I understand that we need a surveillance system if we are to protect citizens, so we must temper our complaints.’ Not once do they realise that this equivocating attitude ALWAYS allows the thugs in through the back door. It enshrines the tentacles of the secret state in law.
Now, if we are really serious about tackling the current junta that is in power, and if we are serious in aiming to reform the system for the better, then we must actively destroy the surveillance system as it currently exists. We must move towards open government, open media, encourage full and frank disclosures from whistleblowers, and rigorously define the legal parameters — leaving no uncertainty behind — of spying. Under no circumstances must we fall back on the idea that millions of pounds must be spent on shoring up the apparatus of the surveillance state. State secrecy should not just be limited, it should be defunded. Spying networks currently in force should be disbanded and investigated by the public. Secret courts should only be established if it can be proven — beyond reasonable doubt — that the revelation of intelligence ‘will’ harm the nation as a whole. We can start by setting up the equivalent of the Church Committee in the US, and by undertaking a major public investigation into illegal spying activity. RIPA must be revisited.
Enough with the double standards. The security state is almost always against our interests. We must wake up to this fact, and fast.
@ Gawain
“The security state is almost always against our interests.”
________
An interesting thought. Would you care to expand on it and when so doing set out when you think the security state is IN our interests?
Thank you.
“Russia and China, having learned their lesson, are protesting Washington’s assault on Syria that Washington pretends is a “civil war.” If Syria falls, Russia and China know that Iran is next.
Iran is Russia’s underbelly, and for China Iran is 20% of its energy imports. Both Russian and Chinese governments know that after Iran falls, they are next. There is no other explanation for Washington surrounding Russia with missile bases and surrounding China with naval and air bases.
Both Russia and China are now preparing for the war that they see as inevitable. Washington’s crazed, demented drive for world hegemony is bringing unsuspecting Americans up against two countries with hydrogen bombs whose combined population is five times the US population. In such a conflict everyone dies.”
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2013/06/17/washington-is-insane-paul-craig-roberts/
I take an interest in the world around me
You gather intelligence
He she or it spies.
John Goss, I dare you to ask that question – What crime has Abu Qatada committed? – on the Geurrdian’s CIF. It could well get you moderated and you’ll certainly receive lots of rather unsavoury yet non-specific replies. I’ve been asking the same question for some time now and can only conclude that like another chap who was born in Bethlehem, he is seen as a threat to the ruling elite with what he has to say.
I have serious doubts about your expertise if you really think Russsia or China are standing out for principles of International law to protect civilians and democracy in Syria. They are just afraid of losing multimillion weapons contracts. Weapons and monies that’s what they are standing out for.
Abu Qatada may have worked for our intelligence services. It is time for white people to stand up for Muslims who are being held without trial under the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 and then the Protection of Terrorism Act 2005. Muslims, understandably, are concerned that if they protest they may likewise be wrongfully imprisoned. I have just raised the following FOI to find out why Abu Qatada has been made by the media, and Theresa May, to look like a criminal. There is a Follow button if anyone wants to keep informed of the progress of this FOI request.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/abu_qatadas_crime_or_crimes/new
Villager
18 Jun, 2013 – 12:52 am
“Howdy there Guano, nice to have you back with us again! I was getting worried that Fisons had got you bagged up and that you’d been spread over a field somewhere.”
LOL Habba where do you pull these one-liners out from?!
I count that as three lines in two sentences. Fatuus vicum.
Yanks, when not debasing & torturing the very meaning of words, also like to corrupt rational logic itself;
“it says it does not have the evidence to try but are too dangerous to release”
US reveals Guantanamo ‘indefinite detainees
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22949561
So…a D Notice was slapped on the BBC and other broadcasters (today’s Guardian). I’m assuming the terms of a D Notice mean that you cannot even talk about a D Notice? I ask that because there is no mention of reporting restrictions on the BBC.
One thing that has occurred to me is the way in which the BBC have reported the Snowden leaks. The corporation has either a) parroted what is already in the public domain or b) “top lined” the official reaction to the leaks from Hague, Cameron et al. At no time, so far as I’m aware, has the BBC conducted its own investigation into the leaks, covering the broad nature of the 197 reports generated by Prism, for instance. Perhaps this was part of an assurance they gave the MoD when the D Notice was issued — the Beeb could hardly ignore the story, after all. Or perhaps they just don’t have the staff to devote to such a trivial matter…
I feel one of my mantras coming on: The BBC is an arm of the state — don’t trust it.
@Doug,
Credit where credit is due; the chief troll has no doubt been rewarded by his handlers for getting the some of the regular posters here to support him, but responding about him to his new fan club, is the same as engaging with the troll clown itself; best to ignore in both situations.
Perhaps I can add a smile that is on topic
From Melbourne
WHISTLEBLOWER – feat. mc Edward Snowden [RAP NEWS 19]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnMPQmIPibE&feature=youtu.be
Sure as heck Omar Bakri Mohammed worked for the SIS. Also the little weirdo who has been droned in Yemen not so long ago.
Further, added to the list of the new concentration camp inmates ought to be Abu Hamza, who has had his prosthetic hands taken off him, because the jailers have found his hooks could be “dangerous”, and he is finding it difficult to; feed, wash, etc himself. (as per wapo gloatingly).
These people along with 500,000 other Muslims (as per wapo) are spending their lives in the new concentration camps dotted across the planet, whilst no one gives a shit. We all are good “Citizens” now.
Dreoilin, thanks for the Rap News – pretty well done, I thought.
I think that Abu Qatada’s problems with Britain’s security state go back to the 3/11 bombings in Madrid when he, a source for Scarlett’s MI6, was talking to co-religionists there who often came to Britain, and this persuaded the Brits so much that it was going to occur round London that they persuaded Aznar’s ( remember that jerk?) people not to worry about an attack there!
When they occurred there, during an election campaign, Aznar was toast.
Ben, you might find in my file a takeoff about it in Private Eye Letter from no. 10 style worth a read and even a laugh about the terrible tragedy.
As for me asking The Guardian about it, I have long given up on the process since my comments were always pre-moderated, and rarely posted. So much for comments being free!
Should Joanna Gosling, a presenter on the BBC News Channel a) declare an interest when she is commenting on political affairs as she was earlier today or b) be doing the job anyway in the light that her husband is one of Agent Cameron’s spin doctors?
‘Craig Oliver, the Prime Minister’s embattled Director of Communications, has been told by his friends to put his family before his job, lest his marriage go the way of other Downing Street denizens. Craig is married to the BBC News presenter Joanna Gosling, with whom he has three children. The unrelenting 24/7 pressure of his Downing Street job spinning for the PM is, Craig himself admits, “a lot of stress”…
Ironically David Cameron pledged in opposition “to make the UK the most family-friendly country in Europe” yet has seen the marriages of his former press secretary Gabby Bertin as well as that of his “gatekeeper” Kate Fall break up. Kate is the chillaxing PM’s hardworking deputy chief of staff. It looks like Osborne will need to find money in the budget to hire more staff to lighten the workload if Downing Street is to really be a family-friendly workplace.’
http://order-order.com/2013/06/17/craig-told-put-family-before-cameron/
Also on GF, Mercer declares a payment from Alastair Andrews Communications. A fake name, a fake address and a fake job are all on the register apparently.
http://order-order.com/2013/06/18/mercer-declares-2000-payment-from-fake-sting-company/
Just glanced through The Guardian’s comment thread on its interview with Snowden, and it is really alarming with posts being removed because they did not abide by the rules, many having notices to other posts by the poster without the original one being there, and, of course like in my case with it, we know nothing about the ones which were ruled out beforehand.
Is this just the biggest part of the data-mining operation by NSA/GCHQ to locate the real, probable troublemakers, thanks to the newspaper’s unprecedented assistance?
Too bad that Orwell isn’t around to exploit the new Big Brother developments!
It’s supposed to be the G8 so why are there ten of them? Because they invited Herman and Jose to join in.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/shortcuts/2013/jun/18/g8-leaders-caption-competition
Wonder what Terry Fuckwit said that caused it to be removed?
Yes Trowbridge, very handily for GCHQ/NSA etc a comment trail is collected.
eg Terry Fuckwit
https://id.guardian.co.uk/profile/terryfuckwit/public?activity-stream=comments
sweet rap 🙂 thanks dreoilin
and John Goss, thanks too – agree.
Macky, more than half of the Guantanamo detainees held in permanent detention are Yemenis though two have them have died there. The poet, Adnan Latif, was from Yemen. He died in Guantanamo having spent more than a third of his short life in the merciless clutches of the US military.
Just think go this poster, say Mohamad Qatada and using the user name Silent Sam) posting this response to The Guardian interview with Edward Snowden:
Silent Sam: “Snowden is just another false hero who should be killed like all the West’s phony heroes.”
Mohamad Qatada is related somehow to Abu, and the security services have long wanted to get him in any kind of way not only because of the 3/11 fiasco but more importantly because they so over-reacted to the tragedy in Operation Crevice that they converted some of them who frequented that internet cafe in Crawley, especially those around Leeds, that they carried out the 7/7 bombings.
The Guardian’s moderators pre-moderate Silent Sam’s post, and hope that he will add to it, and he does, posting something like this:
Silent Sam: “It is just IT types like Snowden at GCHQ who could have stopped the 3/11 attacks in Madrid if they had not been so interested in setting up my third cousin, twice removed, Abu Qadada.”
This post is also held back until he adds ones that are less inflammatory and have elicited sympathic responses from others. Then The Guardian posts the first response, and others which have attracted others, and have gained approval from many unknown ones – people whose identity can easily be determined, giving MI5 people much to work with.
I’ll think about doing a much bigger post about the possibilities that GO would think worthy of note.