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US slams Russia for giving ‘propaganda platform’ to Snowden
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Published on 13 Jul 2013
The White House says that Russia granting political asylum to Edward Snowden will be on par with providing the National Security Agency leaker with a “propaganda platform” to further harm the United States.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DXXshWGrDEQ
Apologies if already posted.
Suhayl, thanks:
Yes, you’re quite right. I had in mind modern capitalist states, and perhaps, a theoretical one in which income inequality could be modified experimentally to consider the effects of this variable. My overriding point was that modern states are not shy about using the deep state to repress social reaction stemming from engineered austerity.
Thinking about it, it would be better to assert that the power of the deep state is inversely proportional to the power of democracy, assuming a well-informed public would not tolerate large undemocratic state systems. This links to income inequality, since a highly democratic country would settle on a relatively flat income curve, which removes one reason for the existence of the deep state.
However, that might turn out to be just theoretical in practice: the deep state suffers from an ‘arms race’ effect between countries – if one country has one then the others ‘need’ one as well, just to look after their own interests.
Arbed, Herbie: many thanks for the links. No time to check them today, but will read in the week.
@Hasbarista
“habba/resdis/villager hifiving each others posts reminds me of the five dancing israelis in the NY car park jubilant in a “hava nagila” conga! But not jubilant enough as the lot dancing in the aisles of the fully laden El Al 747 that was allowed to take off from NY on the afternoon of 911.”
Quite how this offensive and obnoxious comment has survived moderation applied with any normal sense of balance I do not know. Given that a friend of mine had a brother who was in the Twin Towers and knowing how he and his family had to face the uncertainty at the time I can assure you that there was certainly no jubilation on my part.
I would now ask the moderator to preserve the offensive comment just to make clear that this is the true nature of low life fascists rather than attending a Coronation Gala Evening in honour of someone acting as a constitutional head of state for a democracy for 60 years. Might I suggest that if Mary/April Showers/Flaming June/ the Heatwave has clearly got to me or whatever she wishes to call herself doesn’t approve of Monarchy (a position that I actually share) then she might spend slightly less time watching the proceedings and understand that calling the guests Fascisti will damage the republican cause rather than progress it.
In consideration of a preemptive strike or a preventative measure against a sovereign country post the attack on American soil in 2001, we must consider Iraq and the necessity to intervene to prevent Saddam Hussein from deploying weapons of mass destruction.
We are aware that this narrow notion of self-defense, is devoid of authority in the absence of aggression.
If there is no aggression – there is no right to self defense.
For that reason it was necessary to develop a broader, more comprehensive definition of aggression that including large scale acts of terrorism giving ground for the coercive measures of the Security Council and preventive measures by the members of the international community. A good example here is the Western push for a strike against Syria to prevent extensive use of chemical weapons and the recent Israeli strike targeting advanced anti-ship cruise missiles near Syria’s principal port city.
From a legal perspective it is clear that such strikes cannot be justified by articles 51, 52 and 53 of the UN Charter and are therefore illegal.
In this paradigm legality appears irrelevant and we should expect nuclear attacks by Israel sometime in the near future as a real possibility if the state of Israel is threatened.
https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/mena/ministry-israel-tests-rocket-system
If the RD thinks that I watched the contrived hommage to the monarchy, then he is totally deluded. I did not watch it. I was told about it and found the Malone/Jenkins segment on the iPlayer. Similarly the Melua rubbish.
@resident,
I don’t normally respond to moderation appeals but the above comment from you is interesting (and polite, thank you).
For what it’s worth, not everything is seen by a moderator, so something appearing is not proof of its approval. However, I did see the item from Hasbarista, and judged it sufficiently edge-case to survive. This contributor has had a number of clearly racist posts deleted, but I didn’t feel that this item in itself was a clear violation. I’m afraid I don’t know enough about 9/11 to judge what the implication is meant to be; that some people were happy about the attacks, or that some people believe others had foreknowledge of it, are both true as far as I know.
Thanks for the heads up A Node to the replay of ‘Murder in Samarkand’. It is even more inspiring to hear it again and to be reminded of Craig’s great and brave stand against the injustices he saw in Uzbekistan and the subsequent hounding he was subjected to by the neocon-supporting inhabitants of King Charles Street.
Craig’s openness and honesty is to be applauded. I am so pleased that he found personal happiness with Nadira.
In contrast, there is the obscene greed of Gulnara Karimova, now being exposed.
GULNARA KARIMOVA’S GAME PLAYS IN FRANCE
http://www.businessinsider.com/gulnara-karimovas-game-plays-in-france-2013-7
With tears in my eyes.
Hey Flaming, speaking of propaganda platforms, NSA’s chekist personas are putting the finishing touches on the new USG propaganda line. Coming soon to a nonconforming comment thread near you! It goes like this:
1. You people seem to think the government wants Snowden so we can lock him up forever without trial and torture him until he’s a mute palsied vegetable. Shows what you know. We just want to talk to him. You see, the secrets that we keep from you aren’t all government fuckups and crimes. Maybe, just maybe, some are super-duper double extra secrets that are so gigantically critical that UNLEASHING© them through Snowden’s TREACHERY© will end Life As We Know It. These horrifying threats to the peace are waaay too secret to bring up at the Security Council like the law says, because they are, uh, sensitive (Shhh.) Do you want the world to end in thermonuclear flames of death? Do you want that? Of course not.
2. Now look what you did, supporting Snowden. Now when that fearless Democratic stalwart Senator Wyden plays his humiliating Mother-may-I games with the agencies he oversees, and begs them for pathetic crumbs of cherry-picked fabricated horseshit, NSA will say, “No.” They are mad. You hurt their feelings. They are sulking, and it’s your fault. The NSA moles that staff Wyden’s committees will go on strike and not let him talk anymore. I hope you’re proud of yourself.
® All rights reserved. Registered Trademark of Booz, Allen Hamilton.
I was impressed with Murder in Samarkand which has just finished. I was impressed with the script and acting. I never got to hear it the first time it was broadcast. Well worth the time. And free of course.
Wait until Snowden reminds the US population who is being spied on, and for what reasons. This sort of Government fascism is not new.
everything comes round in circles.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/McCarthyism/Remembering_Hollywood_10.html
And then some, supersly, wait for when EU countries and their respective populations seeing all, who’s trying to look at what and by what means.
Can you imagine when we find out that most of the official guff was made up and that in reality, Saudi princes have massive parties behind closed curtains, with everything and anything they desire being available.
or that the CIA is handling its agents via their sexual proclivities, best not let mummy know, what would your wife say?….
So Aaron Barr, be patient, all will be revealed, there is no need to massage perceptions in advance, when facts can do this much better.
Nice comment Mary – many people live their lives within a shell – you do not.
Syrian rebels’ Damascus chemical cache found by Assad army – State TV.
The Syrian army has discovered rebels’ storehouse in Jobar in the Damascus area, where toxic chemical substances, including chlorine, have been produced and kept, State TV reported.
http://rt.com/news/damascus-syria-chemical-weapons-082/
@A.Node “New studies: ‘Conspiracy theorists’ sane; government dupes crazy, hostile”
Given that nearly all professional psychologists/psychiatrists would not diagnose anyone’s mental state on the basis of comments made on the internet I decided to have a little closer look at the article to which you link and the sources which it used.
http://therebel.org/resistance/666083-new-studies-conspiracy-theorists-sane-government-dupes-crazy-hostile
The article of course is based on the ever unreliable Press TV – but of course if you look at first study named by Wood and Douglas – which can be found here http://www.frontiersin.org/personality_science_and_individual_differences/10.3389/fpsyg.2013.00409/abstract you will find that it does very little to support the line being taken by Press TY and its friends. For example it contains the following gems:
“Recent research into the psychology of conspiracy belief has highlighted the importance of belief systems in the acceptance or rejection of conspiracy theories.”
“Conspiracy beliefs have been shown to be positively correlated with mistrust of other people (Goertzel, 1994) and authorities (Swami et al., 2010); feelings of powerlessness and low self-esteem (Abalakina-Paap et al., 1999); superstition, beliefs in the paranormal, and schizotypy (Darwin et al., 2011); a perceived lack of control (Hamsher et al., 1968; Whitson and Galinsky, 2008); a Machiavellian approach to social interaction (Douglas and Sutton, 2011); and openness to experience (Swami et al., 2010; but see Swami et al., 2011).”
“Some researchers have gone further, proposing the existence of a conspiracist worldview—a belief system conducive to conspiracy beliefs in general (e.g., Goertzel, 1994; Swami et al., 2010; Wood et al., 2012). This proposal stems primarily from the finding that beliefs in unrelated conspiracy theories tend to intercorrelate: for example, someone who believes that Princess Diana was deliberately assassinated is also more likely to believe that the moon landing was a hoax. Indeed, Wood et al. (2012) demonstrated that even beliefs in directly contradictory conspiracy theories were positively correlated with one another, indicating that conspiracy beliefs may be held together not by direct agreement with one another, but by mutual agreement with higher-order beliefs about the world. One particularly important element of the conspiracist worldview is thought to be a generalized opposition to official or received narratives. In this view, conspiracy belief is not about believing in particular alternative theories, but in disbelieving in whatever the official story is.”
And I do rather like this from Wood and Douglas’s earlier study here http://spp.sagepub.com/content/3/6/767
“Conspiracy theories can form a monological belief system: A self-sustaining worldview comprised of a network of mutually supportive beliefs. The present research shows that even mutually incompatible conspiracy theories are positively correlated in endorsement. ………The monological nature of conspiracy belief appears to be driven not by conspiracy theories directly supporting one another but by broader beliefs supporting conspiracy theories in general.
Of course none of this supports the A Node/Press TV view of Conspiracy theorists sane and those who oppose them are mad – but it does rather support the view of the anti Murrayistas as you so inelegantly label us.
Glenn Greenwald here following Jeremy Scahill at the Socialism Conference.
Chicago, 28 June 2013.
Glenn Greenwald speaks via Skype to the Socialism 2013 conference in Chicago regarding Edward Snowden’s revelations about the NSA’s mass surveillance program. Introductions by Jeremy Scahill, author of Blackwater and the filmmaker behind Dirty Wars, and Sherry Wolf, author of Sexuality and Socialism. #Socialism2013 #Snowden #NSA
Check out more audio and video recordings from the Socialism 2013 conference at http://www.wearemany.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Uulv4ve6RJ8#at=689
@John Goss
“‘In any event, Putin has made clear that Russia would never extradite Snowden. As he put it, “Russia has never extradited anyone and is not going to do so. Same as no one has ever been extradited to Russia.” Besides, the cat’s already out of the bag, in terms of the big revelations Snowden made public.’
Perhaps Theresa May and Jack Straw could have taken a leaf out of that book on how decent civilised countries behave.”
Given that book includes eliminating security employees who defect by putting radioactive isotopes in their tea one would hope that. Mr Goss may wish to comment as whether he thinks such behaviour as a sign of a civilised regime (all countries are civilised it is just that many are graced by leaders who are not) – as this is a case where I think that silence will speak louder than any words.
“Can you imagine when we find out that most of the official guff was made up and that in reality, Saudi princes have massive parties behind closed curtains, with everything and anything they desire being available.
or that the CIA is handling its agents via their sexual proclivities, best not let mummy know, what would your wife say?” Nevermind, 3:35pm, today.
I thought this was common knowledge. Manama? Knightsbridge? Sleek sports cars, the ubiquitous absence of the nasal septum characteristic of the City and tall London ladies of the night all named, ‘Jane’? A hundred books from all sides on the CIA-MI5/6-KGB-FSB? Cameras the size of a pinhead (or a Saudi prince’s brain).
Or were you being ironic?
“… putting radioactive isotopes in their tea…” RD (?Laing) 🙂
Yes, that is one brand of tea I would not recommend.
Local journalists in Russia – we’re not talking Anna Politkovskaya here – who look into corruption, say, routinely end up six feet under. And I mean, routinely.
The Russian version of Annie Machon would not have been able to have set up a website and go round giving public speeches. Shayler was destroyed, yes. And others too. Lehane. But in Russia, they just kill you.
Flaming June
I very much doubt that the Coronation Gala was “contrived” – my guess is that most of those attending were pretty genuine in their hommage to QE2, though even that would not justify labelling them “Fascisti”. If you really want to push the cause of republicanism in this country might I suggest that it is better to engage with the arguments for a constitional monarchy rather than labelling or ridiculing those who put them forward – this is how minds are changed in a democracy rather than by street theatre or similar.
ResDes doesn’t seem to understand that there’s public policy (drafted in the most self-serving language, filled with legalisms and pontifications of the superior ruling classes of the West) is the surface of the ocean.
The real policy is beneath the surface, described by Melville ‘a world of gliding monsters, preying on their fellows’ We much prefer that the prurient evils be easily seen so they can be avoided.
Suhayl
You are absolutely right about the treatment of investigative journalists in Russia. There are some brave bloggers such as Alexei Navalny – who even provides an English translation of his blog. But since he made a speciality of pointing out corruption among the current Mafia and threatening to stand for Mayor of Moscow – Putin (who no one can say has no sense of irony) is just about to fit him up on corruption charges. Perhaps that well known defender of Internet freedom and recipient of the Russia Today schilling might wish to take up his cause, especially since Wikileaks has not a few employees on the ground in Moscow?
Ben Franklin
Of course I understand that public policy is just the surface here in the West
“This is not to say that we don’t have religous fundamentalists and authoritarians in the West for those of us who consider ourselves liberal secularists to deal with – but let us not fall into the nihilist trap of thinking that we have even less hard won democratic tools to deal with them than our colleagues in the Middle East. ” from my post last night.
I just don’t fall into the trap of thinking it is all beyond our control – and I am capable of distinguishing different strands within Western political thinking that can be persuaded and influenced, rather than assuming they are some evil monolith that can only be overthrown by street theatre and revolution. I have never argued that democracy just that it is the best that we have – two steps forward one step backwards may not be a very stirring slogan but it has been rather more effective than any other that I have heard.
Three cheers to Oliver Bienkowski for his latest arts project, how right can he be, sadly the Berlin authorities did not get the joke. The light installation should have gone all the way round the globe, true to the comparison of a then puny Stasi, with today’s NSA.
The man in the picture is Kim Dotcom.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/united-stasi-of-america-artist-wanted-by-berlin-police-a-910818.html
Asiana is considering legal action against the NTSB and SF station KTV2 for “badly damaging its reputation” for making out by its bogus claims of the names of those pilots involved that it and they are simply incompetent fools.
Any such successful suit would cut the legs out from under any crude cover up it has been working on since it started its inquiries.
It’s hard to imagine a more prejudicial act to its conduct.
“rather more effective than any other that I have heard.”
The US can no longer claim residence in the baby crib of democracy. We are full-blown adults of the republic. Other Nations, theoretically look at us for direction. What good example have we provided, other than taking every opportunity to consolidate power, or extend our agenda, to the point of diddling with the electoral process of other Nations?
Your closing comment above works in theory, but in practice, the population has been satiated with benefits worthy of the name NIMBY, and their participatory partnership with the government is mostly limited to showing up at the voting booth every four years. No, the Great Experiment is stuck in the muddle of Human Nature, which is narcissistic, lazy and disinterested. The pathological amongst us rise to the top of the slag heap because they see opportunities for power and wealth. Not that there aren’t good people trying their best, but they are handicapped with conscience and ethics; all easy prey for sociopaths. That’s who is representing us, right now. It’s time to change the playlist and start singing a new song.
“No, the Great Experiment is stuck in the muddle of Human Nature, which is narcissistic, lazy and disinterested. ”
No – I’m afraid that I do not share your view of Human Nature (do you have children?). Political(and other) experiments to elect a new people have all been pretty disastrous. By all means try singing a new song – but please gives us the choice to listen or otherwise. Parties where the host imposes his (and it usually is a he) musical taste on unwilling guests are pretty awful.
Res Diss
Interesting study there @4.41pm, though suffering all the usual problematics we find in pseudo science.
Look at their definition of terms:
“A conspiracy theory is defined as a proposed plot by powerful people or organizations working together in secret to accomplish some (usually sinister) goal (Coady, 2006; Douglas &Sutton, 2008; Goertzel, 1994”
Perhaps you’d care to explain in what way the official 911 account rests ourside this definition of “conspiracy theory”.
In what way do the official explanations for our wars and interventions lie outside this definition?
And finally, what of Edward Bernays?
“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. …We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. …In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons…who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.”
Do you think perhaps he needed a bit of re-education?
‘Human Nature’ from my comment should be taken in context. I was referring to the electorate and their habits within that sphere. What percentage of your friends and acquaintances volunteer to work for candidates or initiatives? I would be surprised if it were more than 5-10% as my experience is closer to One. Do you attempt to avoid jury duty? Know anyone who leaps at the opportunity to participate in the Process? Again, I would be surprised to hear a large number.
And don’t be so snarky about whether or not the Fascists will force you to sing a new song. They’re forcing us all to sing the current Chorus.
@ Resident Dissident (14 Jul, 2013 – 4:41 pm)
Yeah sure, don’t worry about it. I understand where you’re coming from. I’m not surprised you searched the internet until you found something to contradict me. As University of Buffalo professor Steven Hoffman explains:
I would like you to know that despite your attitude, you have my sincere sympathy. Psychologist Laurie Manwell of the University of Guelph has made it clear to me that you’re no more responsible for your comments than Pavlov’s dogs were for their saliva :
Perhaps you should take a little break and try not to think about things that are beyond your ability to understand. Just take it easy, RD, and remember, your irrational rages have a perfectly simple explanation:
Psychologist Laurie Manwell of the University of Guelph agrees that the CIA-designed “conspiracy theory” label impedes cognitive function. She points out, in an article published in American Behavioral Scientist (2010), that anti-conspiracy people are unable to think clearly about such apparent state crimes against democracy as 9/11 due to their inability to process information that conflicts with pre-existing belief. – See more at: http://therebel.org/resistance/666083-new-studies-conspiracy-theorists-sane-government-dupes-crazy-hostile#sthash.71vhgNkO.dpuf
Oops, I messed up the last paragraph of my comment above, repeated a bit by mistake. Don’t worry RD, keep calm, it was just a mistake …. deep breathing … go on …. nobody’s out to get you ….
And while we’re at it, Res Diss.
You write as if democracy is a permanent feature, but surely one doesn’t have to be an expert on the fall of the western Roman Empire to see that authoritarianism rises the closer to the end one gets.
Hasn’t it ever crossed your mind that we’re perhaps at that stage ourselves?