This blog is temporarily suspended pending urgent repairs to the author.
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Dre
You don’t even have to use proxies.
Any street cafe will do. Hotels etc too.
No A Node – I didn’t search the internet to find something that disagreed with you/PressTV – I explained that somtheing smelt bad about the conclusions reached – and then I looked at the first of the academic studies referred to in the article. That article did not reach the purported conclusion in the article – and in fact was very supportive of my own previously expressed views about the nature of the “Murrayistas”.
Just show some intellectual honesty and cut the patronising crap about what I am and not capable of understanding – and I am certainly capable of changing my beliefs when I am presented with some convincing evidence, and that does not include Press TV’s quotes of snippets from academic papers or othewise taken out of context.
Journalists and ex-KGB who look too closely, know too much impinge on the activities of the multi-billionaire dual-nationality oligarchs who looted the USSRs state assets, seized or stole that which never belonged to them.
[Mod: some aggressive sweeping generalisations about Israeli people were made here that appear discriminatory – removed]
In a Britain too, on the point of multiple bubbles simultaneously bursting and where the chronically ill and wracked with pain are forced to jump through impossible hoops and humiliations as with the surplus proletariat who are worked to the bone unpaid even for basic subsistence to maintain their health, which subsistence if they were but wise could simply take, but instead are clinging on obediently, conforming against their own best interests in hope of being able to keep themselves alive, fed and with a roof over their head long enough to see those responsible for the neo-liberal nightmare that has be-devilled their lives brought to justice and those every bit as guilty who bought in and joined the plundering and race to the bottom inhumanity of Malthusian Social Darwninism, stripped naked and bereft of their privilege and entitlement, their ill-gotten plunder redistributed.
Greetings to the new Trolls, Someone or other, the wolf-packs, as transparently evident as only trolls can be in self-congratulation and back-slapping. Medals for you all, it takes something freakishly disturbing to come out with the crap you do with and give the impression of believing it yourself. You were special, but as now predominant, are less so.
Res Diss
It’s worth asking too, I suppose, where’s the evidence that convinces you of the veracity of the 911 official account?
Do you even know what it is?
Be honest. You’ve done no analysis of the official account whatsoever.
You’ve simply accepted it.
And what do we call people who do that, hmmm?
I think it’s safe to conclude that outside the “probed by aliens” brigade, there are those who question official accounts and those who just accept them.
So, where do you stand?
[Mod/Jon: reference to “shikse” (non-Jewishness), probably racially motivated and thus deleted. Please keep comments constructive]
Herbie
I’ve read more daft 9/11 stories than I would care to recall – not a few of them on this blog. I’ve also read David Aaronovitch’s Voodoo Histories where the various conspiracy theories get a pretty good going over – together with the forgery from which Hasbarista appears to draw most of his thinking (we are not allowed to mention the name here as I understand it is this blog’s equivalent of Macbeth). I’m afraid in the case of 9/11 I just don’t read the evidence the way you do.
“Just show some intellectual honesty and cut the patronising crap about what I am and not capable of understanding”
pot/kettle. I frequently engage you with logic and facts. You return with off-side penalties and snark.
When you argue yourself into a corner, it’s your job to extricate yourself. It’s not our job to respond to you, in a vacuum.
Jon/Mod
Being called a troll here I can take – it usually means that the name caller has lost the argument and as an alternative is descending to insults – but surely Cryptonym’s “in Israel (where thieving is a national institution of the seedy sick cult there” is just plain anti-semitism pure and simple and needs to be dealt with accordingly?
[Mod: agreed, snipped]
Ben
I don’t regard myself as being in a corner – I hadn’t read your antepenultimate post.
Actually quite a lot of my friends are politically active – but I can take your point about people being generally less engaged with political parties as being a general phenomemom here in the West. I see this as being more a problem with the political parties rather than nature – since my own experience and knocking on peoples doors at election time tells me that you have got human nature all wrong.
You re absolutely right, Resident Dissident at 7:28 pm That’s 2 punnets!
Regarding 9/11, I have read the special 9/11 conspiracy thread and comments, and it was heartening to see that there was an engineer there who carefully took you all to pieces. Controlled demoiltion I would call it!
Res Diss
You’ve carefully avoided the questions I put to you, and it’s fairly safe to assume therefore you unquestioningly accept the official account or at least desire that others unquestioningly accept it.
You’ve certainly presented nothing to counter that view.
It’s that “unquestioning” which is at the root of the issue.
I’d have thought that holding officialdom to account went to the heart of democracy.
You seem quite content in a rather passive acquiescence to authority, which if I may say isn’t altogether surprising given your worldview.
I don’t believe for one moment though that you really are that stupid. Which leaves us only with dishonesty, I’m afraid. Your position really is that unsustainable.
“but I can take your point about people being generally less engaged with political parties as being a general phenomemom here in the West.”
They elected these people. Or, they didn’t bother to vote, for various reasons including the one you stated.
Regardless of that fact, the two-party system is the culprit. The ‘muddle’ as I called it; or the Majority, is a large bubble of humanity which dictates the pablum of discourse leading to campaign lies and smears, which they claim they don’t like, but still listen to. They dictate the platform to which the rest of us must subscribe because that’s the democratic process. The founders chose a constitutional republic to avoid the tyranny of the majority, but voila’, there it is in all it’s glorious monopolism. Same is true with Corporate interests. Are we distilled down to 2 entities yet? Gettin’ close. Same with the Media. Their interests are primarily corporate in nature, and they swing that Big Stick with the same intent.
You may be right that there’s nothing apparent as a better option, but I see it the same way the grocery clerk asks…..
‘Paper or plastic’.
Wrong and wrong – I accept the official account after it has been subject to very detailed questioning, the main elements of which I am more than aware. I would advise otheres to go through the same process so that they can better understand how many of the conspiracy theorists are actively seeking to manipulate our political purposes.
I have no problem whatsoever with holding offialdom to account – it is a very hard won freedom that we lose at our peril – and which many in this world do not currently hold to anything like the degree that we do here in the West. What I do accept is that sometimes when that process has been gone through is that those in authority will have a democratic mandate to do things with which I disagree – you may call that passive acquiescence I don’t. My worldview is one of a secular liberal/social democrat and I tend to support those who have similar views elsewhere.
Res Diss
Oh, really.
What questions did you ask?
” My worldview is one of a secular liberal/social democrat and I tend to support those who have similar views elsewhere.”
Labels are meaningless, but can you give examples of who in political office shares your view?
Please give a synopsis of the damage Snowden has done to the West.
I was called ‘comical’ earlier. Not as comical as a ‘dissident’ who quotes Aaronovitch, acolyte of B.Liar and a proponent of his hideous war on Iraq. ‘Resident’ – yes – diversionary too.
Merkel falls into line.
German chancellor defends Western intelligence agencies
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/07/13/germ-j13.html
A little while back she was stamping her foot.
Playboys of the Western World.
http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/7/14/248337/default/v2/173439727-1-198×111.jpg
Polo in Cirencester today. Pity the poor little ponies in this heat.
“A little while back she was stamping her foot.”
Public showings are often followed by mea culpa. A little bird whispered in her ear, Mary.
Flaming June
“so many reasons for God to Damn America. A litany.”
Sure you know God knows exactly where America is? I thought all borders were man-made!?
And suppose he does know, how do you propose he goes around damning America without also damning all Americans? What precisely do you wish upon her/them?
Do i sense a feeling of hate here, just as i do upon your views of royalty? Have you looked into your self recently and asked yourself the question: what kind of heart produces such hate? Is such hate necessary, when we are talking politics? Does hate produce a result, change?
I had to revisit the word ‘bigot’ in the dictionary.
Sweet dreams all activists for a better world. Great to be so aware of all the horrible stuff going on in the world. Blame it all on others and don’t bother to look inside at your own awareness of your own self.
PS Jon, please be clear i’m not trying to be personal and am not in attack mode either. I don’t know her except as Mary which doesn’t amount to much. Unfortunately when it gets to stuff like hate-politics, life and thereby people do get intertwined with the politics we discuss. People can and should be more circumspect especially in the greener environment you are labouring so hard to foster here. Thank you.
Jon thank you also for your fine analysis re the NSA/PRISM situation. Your note got right into depth of plumbing of the system and how many levels are involved in the systemic processes and how entrenched they are.
However, i would still like to believe that as the all-powerful President of the World Obama could change things or at least make some important modifications, especially given his second and last term. He simply won’t rock the boat — thats been a consistent theme of his Presidency. He is as establishment as you can get, that is all. Apparently he was never going to make one gitmo of a difference.
PS Thank you also Arbed for that link to those graphics — yes a picture told a KB of words!
Anon
12 Jul, 2013 – 6:11 pm
To Suhayl @5:43pm
“Continually berating Britain, the US and Israel does not not [sic] constitute a service to humanity – it’s just taking sides!”
Exposing corruption; hypocrisy; dishonesty, illegality and war-crimes does constitute a service to humanity even if it means berating one’s own government or state or an allied government or state.
Taking the side of the oppressed over the oppressor is a humanitarian duty whether it be in Israel, Saudi Arabia, the USA, Uzbekistan, the UK or China.
I do apologise for causing anyone any alarm if in my 6:50pm comment I by saying “who now reside either in Israel (where thieving is a national institution of the seedy sick cult there, but where state policies of genocide make mere theft simply other charges confirmatory of incorrigible deviance) […]’ that I may have given the impression that Israel is a state or nation or even a nation state. It is none of these things but is simply a long-running criminal enterprise, of land theft, mass murder and cruelty to fellow humans, unequalled in its audacity and moral repugnance.
Jon, thank you for hardly caving in. I don’t flounce but this is my last comment here, a minor victory for the ziofuckwits in wrecking what was thought once a bastion of free speech, but may simply have been another trojan outfit, flipped at a moments notice into full-on batting for Israel. I would be grateful must indeed insist that you delete the rest of my 6:50pm comment, and then this one as it contains the same demonstrably true facts which are now deemed ‘offensive’ in the manner of thought crimes. You’ve always been a bit suspect or craven, I do not grant the right to you or whatever shrill and culpable scum bend your ear and try be you on your behalf, who own your mind wholesale -to alter, butcher, mangle and edit my comments as you see fit or as they compel you in dumb animal-like compliance with policing other’s self-expression in accordance with their poisonous direction. Truths which your apparent new-found fair-weather friends are uncomfortable with in proportion to their cognitive dissonance in defending the unspeakable and appalling, have a viral way and come to the fore, despite the grim determination of the ziofuckwits to suppress them.
I note too that the ziofuckwits or yourself, the distinction has become blurred, did not take offence at the exact same generalistation being applied to London in describing it as den-of-thieves in the same comment, you don’t like generalisations is your justification for the edit, but generalisations which are wholly applicable made concerning Israel are singled out for special treatment.
delete, delete, delete away
I’ve been watching this
‘Plane Crash Animation Video Recreates Asiana Flight’s San Francisco Landing’
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/plane-crash-animation-video_n_3587554.html
“According to the San Francisco Chronicle, the video was created by Jack Suchocki, a former pilot who flew 727s and other aircraft. Suchocki later founded Eyewitness Animation, a company that specializes in forensic animation and aviation accident reconstruction, according to its website …
“Speed was a major issue in the crash, and the ghost plane in the video showing how the plane should have landed would have immediately left the frame of the video if depicted realistically. For that reason, Suchocki had the two planes travel together.”
Shocking to watch. It is amazing that more people didn’t die.
Dreoilin;
Yeah, that was good. It looks to me like a stall. What I don’t understand is most flights are by-wire these days. Pilot and co are just there to make passengers comfortable. Since the pilot was in training, they might have had auto-pilot off, but the trainer would have to be asleep to allow the low-speed descent at too low, and then over-correction. You’re right. Many more could have died.
Jon/Mod
Please do a google on the ‘word’ Ziofuckwit’ and see the results. It should serve as a patent embarrassment to this website.
This time nothing at all do with you as moderator, but it is telling how nobody, except perhaps one (Anon?) has raised this matter at all.
Separately on the matter of a chat-thread, something i had raised earlier, for which apparently there was some support, in order to streamline conversations and obviate off-topics. There were some concerns raised as to how it would work. Well, we can now see by experience of this thread how it work — probably an improvement of the present model. I raise it again here for Craig and you to consider.
I would be inspired by one of the most prolific sundry announcers that tends to go off topic at well less than the drop of a page, to christen the thread monthly, e.g. Hotter than July, August Moon, Come September and so on and so forth. I hope a moderated sense of humour will continue to be permitted to encourage light while talking about things dark.
Finally, thank you gracefully for your generous work and do come around more often as commenter.
Crypto, just to clarify my remark to Jon was totally unconnected to your latest comment. By synchronistic coincidence i was googling the Z_F word in parallel.
Jesus, Cryptonym, that’s very harsh. Jon is getting it in the neck from all sides now?? What you call his “new-found fair-weather friends” have been berating him too.
Who’d be a moderator here?
Jon, I see you sorted out my muddle at
13 Jul, 2013 – 8:43 pm
and put in the link for me.
Many thanks
————————-
Yes, Ben, I reckon there’ll be a lot of post-traumatic stress around after that. Not just among passengers, but crew, and especially the pilots. Maybe the trainer was dozing, who knows.
————————
“but it is telling how nobody, except perhaps one (Anon?) has raised this matter at all.”
Not correct, Villager. Jon asked Passerby/Fedup to quit using it a long time ago. And iirc, on the Work for UN thread too, fairly recently.
Cryptonym, I should be sorry to see you leave. However, you know full well that mods are not pushed around by anyone on this board, which is why bad-faith and disruptive appeals to the rules are ignored.
In a personal capacity, I have previously appealed to Passerby/Fedup to avoid language like “ziofuckwits” and “shitty strip of land”. However, these have been allowed to stand, unhelpful as I think they are. However, your sweeping generalisation about a “seedy sick cult” in Israel and the “incorrigible deviance” of its inhabitants constitutes an attack on a whole race/religion, and as you know that has always been unacceptable here. It crosses a line which was already generous in your direction. I would certainly delete “seedy sick cult” and “incorrigible deviance” if it were applied to Muslims.
If your point was that Israel should not be recognised as a nation, or that an influx of oligarchs from the USSR have negatively influenced its levels of corruption, then you can go ahead and make those points.
Dreoilin thank you for that link.
I still maintain that i find rather more amazing that 300 souls were somehow saved than evaporating through what could well be pilot error. I have been in a car accident that similarly sent the car in an out of control spin and we were all lucky to have got out unscathed. When good fortune smiles upon us we must fold our hands and acknowledge the greater sacred rather than be scathing of (possible) human error.