What we are seeing in Egypt is counter-revolution pure and simple, military hardliners who are going to be friendly with Israel and the US, and are committing gross human rights abuse.
Western backed counter-revolution is going to be sweeping back across the Middle East; do not be distracted by the words of the West, watch the deeds. It will of course be in the name of secularism. There is an important correlation between what is happening in Turkey and Egypt. I made myself unpopular when I pointed out what the media did not tell you, that behind the tiny minority of doe-eyed greens in the vanguard of the Istanbul movement, stood the massed phalanxes of kemalist nationalism, a very ugly beast. “Secularism” was the cry there too.
At the outset let us clarify that:
1- If there were no “anti-Semites”, the ziofuckwits would have had to invent some, and in fact at times they do so.
2- Without “hatred” towards the Jews. ziofuckwits will be hard-pressed to justify their existence, further to justify their murderous conduct and their inordinate appetite for land theft.
3- Without “hatred” towards the Jews. The current apartheid regime in zionistan would not exist.
Therefore to find the old anti-semi…. charges still prevalent in a post Christianity era, in Europe and elsewhere is a an attempt to resuscitate the almost dead and forgotten hatreds towards the Jews. In fact the absurdity of the claims of hatred towards the Jews dominate any debate concerning the barbaric behaviour of the ziofuckwits, and purely serve as a smoke screen for their crimes: there is no difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism
This fact can be corroborated by the franchise of ziofuckwits hatred of all things Muslim to the West. This is corroborated in a bizarre episode, Roberta Moor (UK counterpart of Pamela Geller) goes on record, and admits; They think the league [EDL] is exploiting us, while it is really we who initiated the Jewish division. If anything, we are exploiting them.
Hence to find the “hatred” of Jews so ingrained in every Muslims heart is in fact the stuff of fiction. No need to explain that long before the 1948 imposition of zionistan on Muslims, the Jews and Muslims were living side by side and had no truck with each other. So far as the extreme Wahhabi interpretation goes; massacre and beheading of Shiites in the Northeastern Diyala province. This is proof that the Wahhabi operatives are in fact firm believers in equal opportunity, and they equally hate everyone across the board, other than a handful few who follow the Wahhabi doctrine.
Therefore to debate about the hatred against the Jews is in fact indulging the ziofuckwits, as we all know that an undesirable individual could belong to any religion, club, group, tribe or gender, and people only react to what they find, and what they see. A considerate, polite and courteous individual will be equally treated with respect and admiration, and an awful aggressive, thief will be treated with utmost contempt and aggression.
However, given that ziofuckwits have hijacked the Jewish religion, and imperatives thereof, it is up to the Jews to wrest back their religion and traditions from these extremists and voice their opposition to the current wave of mass murder and grand theft lands. If there is a point to be debated is; there is not enough Jews standing up to the ziofuckwits, and their crimes. As we all know silence before tyranny and oppression can be misconstrued as collusion in tyranny and oppression.
The debate on this thread has spawned many threads, all of which are valid, and pertinent extrapolations. However, given the frustration of those debating these protracted issues it is an expected outcome that emotions will run high and spill over into fights, but all the participants, should take a leaf out of the “old western movies bar fights” (the very old black and white B movies) after a good punch up put the chairs right and pull a table and sit for another round of poker and drinks, before the next punch up.
Fact is only through discourse and debate can we find common grounds, and further we should all remind ourselves; so long as the opponents are not advocating murder and genocide, land theft, or other deviant propositions, they have every right to their views.
Suhayl Saadi
17 Jul, 2013 – 8:04 pm
This is just racist Nonsense, not worthy of a reply.
If we remove replace your word “Islamist” for the word “Niggers”, nothing will change.
Because now it has become obvious, that is exactly the word you mean.
I am surprised you have a problem with your sterotype of horny Arabs coming here to meet prostitutes. In your secular society, wouldn’t Prostitution be legal?
FedUp, you’re quite right to suggest that the current regime extended education. It is one of the good things that regime has done. However, the basis for this extesnion was established by the Shah’s regime. So, while there were terrible things done by the Shah’s regime, as there have been terrible things done by the current regime, there were/have been some beneficent actions too. As I suggested, Iran seems to have been different from other Islamist regimes/movements in that at least to a limited degree the regime there has implemented some redistributive policies. As we both accepted, however, sadly this has not been the case with Sunni Islamist regimes/regimes or movements heavily influenced by them.
Here is a good thesis on education in Iran:
http://etd.lib.metu.edu.tr/upload/12612887/index.pdf
Jon
You have no evidence of the electurate changing their minds.
What you have evidence of, is the electurate that lost being unable to to tolerate the fact they lost.
The people who had their man in for 50 years, found someone elses man had one.
Electurates change their mins in elections.
I don’t believe you when you say you would support them if they win a second election.
I’m not sure how a second election can even take place with everyone in prison?
So yes, you can claim to believe in the Israeli style democracy that the millitry intends for Israel, oh I mean Egypt.
In Egypt the majority 70% what you call Islamist. The army didn’t, and the up to 30% of the population who were happy under dictatorship didn’t and Israel didn’t.
You use the example of demonstrations to prove your pioint. where pro Army demonstrations are protected and pro elected government ones are shot at.
That is like the demonstrations in Palestine aren’t they?
I’m sure you will aggree with the Israeli style election that will take place. One where all the opposition sit in jail. Similar to how Israel became the only democracy in the middle east by deporting or exterminating 80% of palestinians.
And I am not in favour of Arming Palestinians just like Israel is armed. I am in favour of a reversing sykes picot.
It wasn’t the people who live in the middle east who seperated the countries there, just as they weren’t asked about establishing Israel there.
These countries that were drawn out of the middle east by the british and french have to reunify. That is what the majority of people there want, just as Islamic government is what they want. But you use the example of demonstrations by the few that don’t to say the majority don’t.
So what I want to end the conflict between the Zionists and the people who were in Palestine before they arrived is, reunification of the middle east back to what it was before the british and french carved it up. And then a quick clean invasion of what you call Israel.
Don’t worry, Muslims are not Nazis like the Zionists. We will treat them better then they are doing to us.
“What exactly has Islamism achieved? Name one single invention it has generated. Name one single health or education statistic that has been improved by this cult of Sunni Islamism.” Me.
Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mali, Somalia, Nigeria… all now have experienced the fruits of this wondrous political ideology.
And as for The House of Saud and the call girls of Knightsbridge (and Manama, and Kive, and…), well, Arsalan, if you wish to set yourself as the defender of the social habits and hypocrisies of the House of Saud, please be my guest.
As for your usual liberally scattered red flag words, they might suggest the semiotic weakness, rather than strength, of the positions you have adopted. It’s a bit like yelling, “Spanish Inquisition!” or “Bogeyman!” or “Mummy!” when you find yourself at an impasse and unable to reconcile the contraditions inherent in your arguments, not to mention the facts which fly in their face.
Anyway, all best wishes, and good luck with the fish recipes!
Jon
17 Jul, 2013 – 9:18 pm
Don’t you dare bring Jew in to it.
The problem with Israel is that country kills babies, steals land and oppresses people.
That is why people hate it.
It has nothing to do with the religion of the baby killing nazis.
If Satanists, did that it would all be the same.
Zionists are not even Jews.
The ones the founded Israel were Atheists. They just used the term Jew as some sort of new racial term because they were all a bunch of racist nazis.
Real Jews hate Israel. Real ones who believe in the torah and practice their religion believe Zionism is appostisy from Judaism.
I agree.
You can’t be a Jew and a zionists at the same time.
Real Jews would probably help us invade Israel.
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/
Who do I accept as a Jew, someone that follows all of the religion.
Or someone that east bacon while waving an Israeli flag.
Judaism has nothing to do with Zionism.
Hatrid of Israel is to do with hating Nazis, because all supporters of Israel are a bunch of baby killing nazis anyway.
Arsalan, not much time to join in at present, but briefly, I don’t think the Egyptian people have been demonstrating for the army. They were fed up of Mubarak’s regime, and they were fed up with Morsi. In other words, they were demonstrating against the hijacking of the revolution, not in order to go back to Mubarak’s lot.
Well, I did, and you didn’t convincingly refute it. Again, you want an Islamic government so desperately, you would force it on a people who appear not to want it.
Here’s a serious problem. I think you believe what you say, but that you are misguided. However, you claim not to believe what I say, so there’s no value in you talking to me, surely?
“You can’t be a Jew and a zionists at the same time.” Arsalan.
I do understand the reasoning, Arsalan and there are some Jews who would agree with you wrt Zionism. I also realise that you are likely originally to be from the Jewish community. But even those Jews who are anti-Zionist mostly would be unlikely to call most Jews (who do agree with some aspects of Zionsim) ‘not-Jews’. It is one thing to say that Zionism is wrong and not part of the religion of Judaism. It is quite another to argue that those who describe themselves as Zionists are not Jews.
But again, to make such a blatent statement that is untrue… I mean, why do you get to define who is, and who is not, a Jew?
Suhayl Saadi said;
Let us examine one of the instances you have mentioned; Somalia.
This very rich country set in a strategic location, and for the last few decades has been a Petri dish of experiments in a governance of a country without a government. However as the Somalians tried to organise through the Islamic Courts Union, an organically developed system that was addressing the ghastly reign of the terror constituted by the feudal structure that had emerged in the absence of a central government.
Suddenly the experiment was no longer left to its own devices, and there was a need for an intervention, and the Ethiopian Meles Zenawi the shunned and despised communist. At once Meles Zenawi was deemed an ally, and was called upon as an ally to go and wrest back the control from the Islamic Courts Union. The war intiated by Meles Zenawi has outlasted him, and has continued with the remaining elements of the “al Shabab” (the youth). This giving an excuse for the US to set up a base in Djibouti, across from Yemen, and call it Africom (Africa Command).
Fact that the experiment had backfired was an obvious outcome, which was eventually put down by the application of force. In fact the Western history seems to be celebrating only the application of force. This is seen in the various anniversaries of the wars that are being celebrated, including the coming four years of remembrance of WWI.
The fact that any problem is to be solved through application of force, has given rise to the one tool Western politicians whom have only a hammer in their toolbox see the world as a series of nails, that ought to be dealt with a hammer! This is in continuation of the admiration of such a historical thugs as Alexander with his title of the; “the great”. Everyone has heard/read of the Gordian Knot, and Alexander’s solution to the intricate knot created by a very clever/dexterous man; sliced it with his sword.
What a wonderfully intellectual sort of a chappy? Whom was endowed with great dexterity and intelligence. He sliced off the knot as any monkey would, given the sword and the knot. Although perhaps the monkey may try his teeth first before getting frustrated and using the knife. Alas that is the hero and he is celebrated thus. This is telling of the calibre of heroes and leaders who are evidently to be admired and respected, as recanted by the “history”.
The same culture that deems application of force as an inherent instrument of achiving the desired outcomes, of course will not allow any deviation from the set and mandated parameters of conduct and thought. As we type the NSA, GCHQ and a plethora of other organisations that are set to snoop on us all; are monitoring what we are writing and what we are thinking. Believe me none are Islamic organisations either!
Hence these measures of control are telling of the dangers of the virus of “free thought” that is a virulent and unwelcome phenomena that ought to be combated at times and by all means. However the levels of sophistication achieved by these operatives, who are engaged in their control of the masses minds, through recourse to various plausible rationale. Hence it behoves us all to use care before we resort to bandy the “freedom” prefix, and to deliver vitriol on the perceived enemy is an elegant consequence of such a comprehensive control measures.
Finally given the Give war a chance brigade, it is perhaps time for humanity to start transcending the simplistic and infantile recourse to application of force. Further it is time to start to consider the consequences of cultural and collateral vandalism, that war is the cause of. This of course means that; Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mali, Somalia have all been attacked and destroyed without the help of any Islmaists. Thus attributing the current problems the beleaguered populations of these countries are facing to Islamists, is a cop out, and a wilful omission of facts.
Yes, all that may well be true, Passerby. Thank you for engaging. Yet still, the problem remains. There has been not one single successful example of an Islamist regime or movement producing a worthwhile society for its people or even one single invention of use to humanity. Is anyone here denying the strategic goals of the USA/UK/NATO et al? Yet here, on this part of the thread, I am focusing my critique largely on the chimera of Islamism, its inability to deal with reality and its consistent failure to provide, or engender, solutions.
“This of course means that; Syria, Libya, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Mali, Somalia have all been attacked and destroyed without the help of any Islmaists.” Passerby.
I don;t agree with that. I see the Islamists everywhere. These countries have been destroyed very much with the help of the Islamists.
I mean, to suggest otherwise is to be in utter denial, surely.
“And then a quick clean invasion of what you call Israel.” Arsalan.
You sound like Donald Rumsfeld, on the “cakewalk” invasion of Iraq.
Well, Passerby, you may have to accept that at least one Islamist is ready and willing to cut the knot, the Gordion Knot.
“Don’t worry, Muslims are not Nazis like the Zionists. We will treat them better then they are doing to us.” Arsalan.
Sorry to burst your balloon, Arsalan. But recent history does not bear out this claim.
The Armenian Genocide was committed by Muslims against Christians. Muslims slaughtered one another, Shia against Sunni, in a variety of places. Think of Iraq, Syria (yes, let us pluck one another’s hearts, beating and raw, and chew the sinews), Afghanistan, Pakistan. Let us think of what happened in Afghanistan after the fall of Najibullah. Groups of Islamists fought one another and destroyed the city of Kabul in the process. Then groups of Islamists fought each other again (Taliban versus ‘Mujaheddin’). And now, groups of Islmaists are fihgting one another (Afghan Govt versus Taliban). Most Christians have fled the Middle East (except in Lebanon and Morocco). There is a good reason why. And how did regimes in the Middle East – and the mullahs – treat the Jews of those countries during the 1940s-50s? Did any Islamists – did Sayyid Qutb or Maududi or any of them – stand up and stand, “Stop!”? Did any of them try to protect their Jewish neighbours?
I’m sorry, Mr Goldberg, but you are calling on Wendy and Peter Pan to restore the Kingdom of Narnia and then for Gandalf to descend upon the world and wave his white beard at everyone. It really is a hiding to nothing.
SS
Well compared to the alternative, which is happening now. Kids armed with stones facing the full weight of the Israeli army.
Yes it will be a cake walk.
And even if we don’t win the first invasion attempt. We only need to win one of the next attempts.
Suhayl Saadi
18 Jul, 2013 – 6:03 pm
I translate this as:
What have the Niggers ever produced that is worth while. All Hail the great white race!
There are almost two billion Muslims in the world. They invent many things.
Since the end of the Othmaniya khilafah you would attribute the inventions they make to whatever society you desire.
After the Khilafah is established, you will find some excuse not to say it was to do with the khilafah state.
Just as you say who you call Islamist winning the election is not democracy, and the coup that removed them is.
🙂
Lies again?
LOL
The armian genocide was done mainly by the young turks. Secularists. Your people arent they?
Even so, unlike the genocide Israel does, and the Americans do in Iraq and Afghanistan. The turks did prosecute about 500 officers for it.
How many soldiers did Israel prosecute for all the babies they killed?
lol
I think you take your history straight from the BNP.
And what happened before the young turks gained full control of the army was due to a total war between the armians and the Kurdish tribes men they fought.
You selective amnesia might choose to forget that the armians started it, and tried to wipe out the kurds.
the kurds fought back, which means they are evil islamist terrorists.
LOL
You hypocrit.
And when it comes to a lot of the other things you mentioned. As for much of the rest you talk about, what happened was the result of the caoos that came with a Kaffir invasion.
You Blame Islam and Islamists for actions that happen in wars in the muslim world.
But do you blame your secularism for wars in the rest of the world?
You are as hypocritical as a Zionist.
Time for a fish supper, methinks!
… while we nestle down into a comfortable apologetics. Now we see denial of the Armenian Genocide.
“There are almost two billion Muslims in the world. They invent many things.” Arsalan.
I’m sure they do. Sadly, they do this mostly in secular, non-Muslim societies. But if you remember, I challenged you to name one single invention that Islamists had produced. Apart, that is, from suicide bombing.
“I translate this as:
What have the Niggers ever produced that is worth while. All Hail the great white race!” Arsalan.
On the contrary.
http://inventors.about.com/od/blackinventors/a/Black_History.htm
And that’s just African-Amercians, doesn’t include Africans. Now, can you produce a similar list for ‘Islamist Inventors’?
Well, a very Zionist way to phraise the question 🙂
(As mentioned before, you really mean, what have the lesser races produced)
If we call Islamist people that rule by Islam, every invention that was done in Muslim Scoieties between the advent of Islam to when Muslim countries were colonised.
Go read a book on Muslim inventions. 🙂
Or any book on chemistry and notice all the Arabic words, maths books are fill of Arabic words too.
I am sure you play with extensiveness and exclusiveness in a way that exclude all Muslim engineers from Islamists and include any Muslim that has ever commited a crime, or what you call a crime.
🙂 so you to your racism, and me to my Islam.
“If we call Islamist people that rule by Islam, every invention that was done in Muslim Scoieties between the advent of Islam to when Muslim countries were colonised.” Arsalan.
Ah! Well, I don’t call those people, ‘Islamist’. I do not equate Muslim with Islamist; the terms are not synonymous. All Islamists (sadly) are Muslim, but by no means all Muslims are Islamist.
Furthermore, those inventions occurred during the Middle Ages when rationalism – Ibn Rush’s and others’ in the falsafa schools, i.e. schools of philosophy – flourished in Muslim societies.
And how many inventions – name even one – have there been in Islamist societies? How many in C20th? C21st? Name just one. Can you…?
Anyway, your parallel is silly – an attempt at closing down criticism by screaming, “Mother!”. ‘Islamism’ is not a ‘race’, not an ethnicity. It is something you can adopt and relinquish, like Communism, or Fascism or Scientology. You did (adopt it). And you can relinquish it.
Islamophobia is real – hatred of Muslims is real and arguably that is racist. But critiquing Islamism might be a sign that one actually loves Islam and loves Muslims and hates what Islamism is doing to it, and to them.
Is that not seeing Reds under the bed kind of a problem that may taint your judgement?
There you go! Do you really believe that a vociferous and unyielding Iranian public used to kicking their “betters” around and out of office, would put up with their current leadership if they were not happy with the said leadership? Iranians wanted an Islamic Republic and despite the best efforts of Shah to prevent it, they managed to revolt and kick the Shah out hold a referendum and and they cast their ballots in that nation wide referendum for an Islamic Republic. Further, it is not just the Iranian leadership that has achieved the current literacy levels of ninety five percent. The Iranians have been working their nuts/butts/pudenda off to get educated, and to work to achieve the levels of self sufficiency they have reached, despite the three decades of sanctions against Iran and Iranians.
However, without yet again pointing out that your jaundiced view of political Islam is affecting your judgement. This reluctance to accept the tainted judgement too is understandable; as an author, with a “weird”* name you need perhaps to make sure that you are doubly clear in your opposition to political Islam. Moreover your levels of aggression toward the “Islamists”, despite the repeatedly pointed fact that political Islam is not a uniform and homogeneous philosophy. However your references to “Islamists” steadily are becoming shrill, and going so far as the wanker Robert Kilroy-Silk diatribe. This perhaps ought to be toned down for the benefit of moving forward with the debate.
I can understand your reluctance to accept; there could actually exist societies that are more happy to live under the Islamic constitution, in a Islamic Republic. However, you should be aware of this factor that this probability exists, and ensure that your research/debate is not the kind of Dershowitzery in search of re-affirming your prejudices.
With the above in mind, could you find a positive aspect in the Political Islam from a third party point of view ? So that you have not incriminated yourself in any way, in case Anthony Glees and co are keeping a tally of what you have been getting up to in your spare time.
* No disrespect is intended, the term is denote that because you are not Jones/Brown/Green then by all means a potential Islamist terrorist that could be hunted, and entrapped and imprisoned. Given the appalling abuses of the minorities rights in UK at present time.
======
Despite my support for political Islam, I am beyond any theisms and find the A theism a fucking teenage angst that has afflicted the undeveloped A theists. This angst in its immaturity finds it necessary to confront the religious people without taking into account the needs of them for the order and belonging that religion could perhaps afford these people in a world of uncertainties. The fact that A theists somehow always wind up proselytising as good as their nemesis the religious people never dawns on them.
In short, no need to believe in any creator, or any excuse to do good, and be true, living life without; fraud, theft, lies, adulatory, etc. Note I did not included the killing, because I view all human beings to hate and abhor killing the next human being, and any living being. That is other than psychopaths, and deranged fucking lunatics, who will do so regardless, and by resorting to varying excuses for their abhorrent deeds and actions. This effectively strips their personal responsibility and role in murder through a convoluted rationalisation process, making black to be white, and up to become down!
Based on the above, my support for political Islam is a wish to afford the underdeveloped world an avenue of progress. The fact is these societies need to build up an escape velocity from their current fast; food, culture, politics dependency, remaining consumers of the Western products and services. Only through independence these societies can move forward and raise the fucking bar for general levels of justice, and respect for the inalienable rights of each one of us as human beings.
The irony of ironies is that A theists, fighting the religious dogmatically without ever realising this. Further the lack of respect shown by these A theists towards the sensibilities, imperatives of those whom believe in a religion and observance thereof. This is indicative of an of immature and undeveloped individual who lacks the understanding; there are many paths to truth, and no one has the copyright/patent on getting there! The first step in building any kind of a relationship is respect, and acceptance of the sensibilities and imperatives of the next pilgrim along.
Finally although Christianity has yielded extreme forms of capitalism, Islam has a much more nuanced approach towards distribution of wealth within the society and puts more emphasis on the individual responsibilities of those lucky enough to be better off. Although this latter point is not exactly practised considering the excesses of the sheiks and their life style that Suhayl is always reeling about.
=====
Are you crazy? If the current “Islam-ist” regimes (those purporting to be observing the tenets of Islam),such as Saudi in particular, that finds invading and killing poor Yemeni revolting against the corrupt and ineffective Saleh types. Or support the murderous Al Khalifa by sending the Saudi army to beat down, kill, and suppress, the revolution in Bahrain. On the other hand the same bunch of ruling pederasts supplying money and arms for any murdering thug in Syria, and Iraq to run amok and terrorise the population of these countries. Or order the religious hierarchy in Saudi to issue a fatwa and forbid any Saudi from praying for the success of the Hezbollah fighters in the thirty three day war of the ziofuckwits on Lebanon. All the while Saudi’s own territories being under the occupation of zinoistan; Tiran and Sanafir Islands, that have been under occupation since 1967.
If Muslims in various countries manage to constitute an equitable, fair, and safe country, the fall of zionistan would soon follow thereafter. This without firing a single shot. Just take a note of the imploding project that is turning ziofuckwits on their own kind. Their racism and aggression knows no bounds. In fact the astonishing facts about existence of neo nazi groups in zionistan are pretty well hushed up.
The apartheid regime in zionistan is imploding, and this implosion will be even more rapid, if only the Muslims were to rid themselves from the current batch of Western charge hands set to their leadership positions. Just listen to McCain and find out how worried he is, at the prospect of such an eventuality.
More densely packed, decorative prose, Fedup, that (again) means close to nothing at all. It also misunderstands atheism to a great degree (what is meant by “a theism”, with the word space?). I should state (again) that, in the same way as calling someone a liar, it isn’t helpful to attribute immaturity to someone in a debate. You’re welcome to explain I don’t understand something, and to set out in a clear way what you believe that is, of course – as I did for you.
I agree. I like its opposition to usury, though I would be worried to live under any absolutist faith-based governance (what recourse do I have if religious observance X becomes mandatory, and democracy has been torn down?). No state should be religious, since a religious state will always have a preference for people who practice the state religion.
Ah, life without religion is evil, eh? A common mistake about atheism – you should look up humanism. In any case, atheism is about confronting religion’s power over secular life, not eradicating religion.
That’s the problem, though, isn’t it? It isn’t clear at all that Islamic governance will always raise the bar for justice, and in some cases, it hugely lowers it, as Suhayl points out.
Ah, right: anti-Jewish racism doesn’t exist. Nonsense, I am afraid. Is your refusal to be drawn on the “good Jew” (who is fighting for Palestinian justice) a result of your believing that all Jews are bad by definition? If so, this is an End Times kind of narrative, where Good and Evil people can be easily identified – it is desperate stuff, utterly without basis, and demonstrates excellently why religion can be a dangerous thing. It creates and feeds on hatred and tribalism, and I think you have succumbed to it.
Anyway, I set out some interesting points on the psychology of “not seeing” the contradictions in ones own perspective, and how self-analysis might help guard against this. Do have a read, and come back to me on it if you wish.
That is what I meant by you defining the word Islamist the way you want.
I have already told you I don’t even recognise the word.
What I do recognise If Khilafah itself, a state where the laws are based on Islam.
And what I list is that, it is Khilafah. The Rashidun, Umayad, Abisid, later ottoman rulers were Khalifs.
That is the system I want to see emulated.
And I think you know it and you are just playing with words.
You ask me to defend states, I seek to overthrow. If the Brotherhood had won, it wouldn’t have made a difference to me, because they did not seek to rule by Khilafah.
My critisium on you was not a defense of the brotherhood, the Iranians regime or even the taliban. It was just an attack on your hypocrisy, and your lies.
Your pretence at believing in democracy when you clearly dont. Also your sense of your own superiority. What you believe in is the will of the people if only they shared your will.
You are a white supremicist with a brown skin. What a African American would call a House Nigger, what the Indians call a chumcher or a koli, What native americans call a tom-a-hawk and many other nations have other names for your attittude of self superiority.
People in the Muslim world are Islamist, if you define it as anything other than secularism.
The dictators are like you, they look down on Islam, and their own people for believing in it. They see themselves as superior because of their westernisation so allow their people to starve.
You asked what good Islamist have done. Even thought I don’t believe how the Brotherhood wants to rule is very Islamic(Not khilafah), they feed the people while the secularist rulers feed themselves.
But to be honest with you. The reason why Muslims believe in Islamic government, is a spiritual reason and not the worldly reasons you would prefer.
True Muslims want to live by all of Islam.
While hypocrits, pick off the bits they like and say the rest is politics.
You may have decided that religion should not have anything to do with state.
But when any true Muslim reads the quran, when he gets to the bit that says chop the hand of the theif, he doesnt say, “Well that is to do with the state, we must ignore this rule”. A true Muslim wants to see that implemented, in the same way he implements the bits of prayer, fasting and zakat. But even when it comes to things that are to do with the individual, you and not the state. There are still bits you don’t like? Such as the verse of Hijab. And before you say you have your own strange interpretation of it, true Muslims implement it in the way the Prophet pbh interpreted it.
So we will implement Islam, you will implement what you want to.
Calling someone a betrayal of their colour is, in my view, as offensive as racism itself, Arsalan. You should be greatly ashamed of such a corrosive view. Are you not able to argue with decency towards people who hold honest disagreement?
Do you deliberately wish to misconstrue, what I have written?
You assume I am religious!
This is the dialogue of the deaf, the mute, and the blind. Each setting out their stall and refusing to see the others point of view.
The working Islamic Republic in Iran so far has not torn the democratic checks and balances. there is no forced conversions of Christians and Jews into Islam.
Fact that Western democracies are based on Christian tenets seems to be escaping your attention.
ROFL you really made my day with this last bit!!!!!
It is a hoot, although I hope not in an offensive way. How can I succumb when I have no religious affiliations? Trouble is I actually took the time to study the three major religions; Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and then decided I need none to help me to live my life.
A theism is what it says A theism:
theism = the belief in one God as the creator and ruler of the universe, without rejection of revelation.
“A” an instance of the above with a differing dogma, and set of imperatives;demonstrates excellently why religion can be a dangerous thing effectively replacing one kind of dogma with another. Hence A theism. You are off hand rejecting the first ever set of rules and laws that made probable the existence of human societies. Without the laws governing marriage, heredity, and conduct, we human beings were still in the fucking caves mate.
A mature view would be; although I have no belief in any kind of a religion, I respect those who believe in a religion, and I do not intend to fight them because of my fears and prejudices. You are mistakenly equating anti-relegion with enlightenment.