The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
I was visiting Holyrood Palace to see the exhibition “Leonardo da Vinci: The Mechanics of Man” today. Wonderful. Afterwards, I thought I’d check out the interior of our extravagantly built Scottish parliament building across the road. On my way in I saw 4/5 people handing out leaflets.
Half an hour later, having established that the interior is a complete dog’s breakfast, I collected my Leatherman multi-tool from security and left the premises, only to find a full scale demonstration going on outside. Those 4/5 people had metamorphosed into a crowd of 30/40 waving placards proclaiming the use of chemical weapons by Assad to massacre children. A speaker with a megaphone demanded immediate military action by the US, UK and UN to remove him.
I wandered over and joined the half dozen bored Japanese tourists who were spectating the demo. 2 uniformed policemen observing the event came and stood beside me. The speaker was uninspiring and the rentamob were bored so I did them a favour by shouting out during a pause “Why would Assad use chemical weapons when he’s winning without them?” The speaker looked over and the policemen moved one each side of me. “Fair question” I shrugged to the policemen, and the speaker continued. During the next pause, I shouted the same question, whereupon one policeman stood directly in front of me and said “We don’t want any trouble, let him speak.” I pointed out that we were outside the parliament building and I had a right to speak too – I didn’t think it was necessary to also point out that I was one, the demonstrators were 30/40, and the Japanese were neutral. To cut a long story short, it quickly became a personal matter between me and the policeman and I decided not to let Leonardo da Vinci get me arrested.
My guess is that most of those Arabic-looking demonstrators were bussed in on a promise of a few tenners for an hour standing around. Did they know that they were being used as stooges in a multibillion pound robbery of Arabic raw resources? I dunno. Nobody really knows what’s going on, certainly not me.
Saudi is the bitch of zionistan alright. The ziofuckwits are sitting tight on two Saudi islands in the Red Sea in a strategic location for the last umpteen years, and not a whisper from the pederasts in charge of the land of Hijaz.
I take it, it has long been forgotten on here that the Syrian civil war started with the crushing of a popular uprising?
‘my guess is Israel’
What a surprise. 🙄
The use of foul language and childish names really does drag this blog down at times. 🙁
[Mod: attack on Flaming June that seems rather unprovoked – please stick to topics]
@Fred
Splittists has explained and covered this earlier. I see the distinction you’re trying to make but it is about 50 years out of date in terms of international law
@ Herbie
“Not so long ago, for example, your main schtick was to blindly acccuse everyone here of being conspiracy nuts, but clearly as the evidence of a vast western conpiracy against its populace emerges, your position is much less tenable.”
__________________
Is this another attempt by the punch-drunk, broken-down old pug to pick himself up from the canvas?
A most delicious post : first Herbie attempts to castigate me for accusing people of peddling conspiracy theories and then he goes on to talk, in all seriousness, of a “vast western conspiracy against its populace”?
Thank you for your support, but I fear that one more boo-boo like that the referee will be counting you out for good 🙂
Thank God Comical Shlomo the well known shill at this blog has kept his head below the parapet, and is not kibbitzing for a retaliatory attack on Assad. That he is supposed to have gassed 1300 children with nerve gas within a 45 minute easy sight of the UN Investigation team from their high rise hotel balconies, is simply ludicrous???!! But it will be fun to see what “logic” madoffs wives here can come up with.
I think that Fred’s comments about right to sovereignty are broadly correct. There are indeed rights which pertain to expectations and obligations once sovereignty has been achieved. But to achieve sovereignty itself is a matter of state practice. Kosovo and Taiwan are examples of state practice being followed by some states but not others, leaving obligations de facto in force but without any international consensus on sovereignty per se.
Here, as part of my occasional series of good news posts, are a few lines from today’s “The Times” of London.
“The eurozone’s economic recovery gained traction this month as the manufacturing and services sectors each reported the strongest pace of growth in more than two years.”
I am tempted to quote more of the report, but I wouldn’t want to depress the doom-mongers any further.
Habbabbkuk can be merciful even to those who do not deserve it!
Villager’s remark above @ 9.21pm has nothing whatsoever to do with the blog, is irrelevant and out of any context and is yet another derogatory remark about me to another poster.
@Chris Jones
Then cite the law.
The Nigel Kennedy and Palestine Strings concert was absolutely brilliant and a packed Royal Albert Hall gave them thunderous applause. What talented youngsters to have emerged, considering the difficulties of their daily lives. The BBC censored Kennedy’s remarks. This is a letter to the Telegraph sent yesterday.
Nigel Kennedy silenced
SIR – Some of us were present at the exhilarating celebration of musical artistry of Nigel Kennedy’s Four Seasons Prom, with the Palestine Strings (Ivan Hewett, telegraph.co.uk). We congratulate the BBC for giving young players from the Edward Said Conservatory an all-too-rare opportunity to demonstrate the vitality of Palestinian cultural life, despite all the obstacles they face.
It now appears that the BBC intends to censor tomorrow’s broadcast of the concert, redacting a statement by Kennedy in which he hinted at the harsh conditions under which Palestinian musicians live. He said the Prom performance showed that “given equality and getting rid of apartheid gives a beautiful chance for amazing things to happen”.
The BBC said these words do not “fall within the editorial remit of the Proms as a classical music festival”. Kennedy responded with a statement condemning an “imperial lack of impartiality”. We note the Jewish Chronicle’s report indicating that the BBC has been subjected to pressure from pro-Israel advocates.
As Jewish campaigners for equality, justice and freedom for all in Israel/Palestine, we urge the BBC to acknowledge his comments as an integral part of a performance which was warmly received by an enthusiastic Proms crowd. The BBC owes television viewers the right to see the event uncensored, in its entirety.
George Abendstern
Seymour Alexander
Craig Berman
Linda Clair
Mike Cushman
Nancy Elan
Pia Feig
Deborah Fink
Tony Greenstein
Abe Hayeem
Rosamine Hayeem
Riva Joffe
Leah Levane
Rachel Lever
Dr Les Levidow
Prof Moshé Machover
Beryl Maizels
Miriam Margolyes
Dr Simon Pirani
Renate Prince
Roland Rance
Prof Jonathan Rosenhead
Chair, British Committee for the Universities of Palestine
Leon Rosselson
Dr Joan Safran
Sabby Sagall
Alexei Sayle
Miriam Scharf
Stanley Walinets
Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi
Secretary, Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods
Devra Wiseman
Naomi Woodspring
Terry Yason
“I take it, it has long been forgotten on here that the Syrian civil war started with the crushing of a popular uprising?” CE, 9:14pm, today
Yeah, with thousands of armed Jihadists waiting in the wings. The Syrian state is a Muhkabarat (secret police) state. It will crush popular, and unpopular, uprisings or even the slightest dissent. It treats Lebanon as a vassal state. That is ‘normal’. What is not normal is for thousands of armed, trained Jihadist paramiliatries primed and ready to invade and create civil war at the drop of a hat. The narrative that ordinary civilians suddenly took up arms and form the majority, or the leading factions, in the ‘rebel’ paramilitaries is almost delusional. Ordinary citizens are likely to be being killed by both sides in this conflict – that is what civil war means. But it seems clear to me that this conflict is being propelled largely by Saudi Arabia/UAE, Turkey, France and the UK, and Israel already has, and no doubt will again, leverage its own advantage too. The war, of course, is really against Iran (whose regional strategic power was unitentionally increased hugely as a result of the US/NATO ainvasions of Afghanistan and Iraq) and also against the last remaining Arab Nationalist regime for reasons that go back to Nasser and the UK, France and Israel’s invasion of Egypt and the UK’s ongoing tactical support since then for Islamist paramilitaries and their political wings.
I’m afraid, as usual, all the moralising we’re hearing from our hypocritical politicians is persiflage. Regimes (US, UK et al) that did what they did to Iraq, and which used the weapons they used there, not to mention the past 150 years of largely destructive meddling/destabilisation/propping up despotic regimes/fomenting wars, etc. will not stop at anything.
[Commentary on Flaming June’s “pattern” of posting – please stick to topics]
Great post at 9:58pm. Thanks, Flaming June.
Kempe
23 Aug, 2013 – 8:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFBOQzSk14c
Kempe very apt video here. Yes i do find it a little curious to say the least that we’re talking of a member of the US Military here, given the rigorous health-examinations one would expect in place.
So, i also wonder how much of this is purely psychological and by implication the conditions, and associated impact, imposed on Manning.
Perhaps the self professed non jew hater would like to comment on the following
stormfront.org/forum/t986178-3/#post11448837
Not a forum for those of a gentle disposition I’m afraid.
[Mod: I’ve not visited that link, but have converted it from a clickable link to a text one – imo S/F should not get any SEO assistance from this site]
@Fred “No law giving Scotland any rights to sovereignty.” Hard to disagree because that’s word salad.
The relevant law is the principle of self-determination of peoples, UN Charter Article 1 clause 2. Of peoples, not of states. Sovereignty is not a right at all but a responsibility of states. So referendum or no referendum, agreement or no agreement, Scotland will be sovereign only to the extent that it accedes to, and complies with, as a minimum, the International Bill of Human Rights, the UN Charter, and the Rome Statute. The British government’s agreement is no more necessary for Scottish sovereignty than the Israeli government’s agreement is necessary for Palestinian sovereignty.
As a corollary, the same goes for the UK: it is sovereign only to the extent that it accedes to, and complies with, the International Bill of Human Rights, the UN Charter, and the Rome Statute. Eyeballing it chapter and verse, the UK government looks about 20% sovereign. Its sovereignty is compromised because the civilized world must help the UK emerge from its underdeveloped condition. The brown man’s burden, as it were.
I think it is clear for all to see the real agenda of ‘Villager’.
Kempe, I’m happy with “she” for two reasons. Firstly, I think gender is a social construct, and it is usually (but clearly not always) a consequence of our genetic sexual assignment. Though I’m not well read in this area, gender studies tends towards the idea of “sex is between your legs, and gender is between your ears”.
If Manning is serious about a gender transition (and I have no reason to doubt it) then I am willing to respect this choice before she has surgery (and even if she does not). I think this is an integral part of LGBT rights.
In any case, if I disagreed with the above, I should be more than willing to make an exception given Chelsea’s astounding bravery – right now much more than most of us could muster, I wonder.
Having just joined this forum, and posted once, a look back at the blog’s historical comments begs me to ask whether the last few days worth of discussion are typical. It looks like a ragbag of digging into positions, insulting each other, posting links ad hoc without supporting analysis and lots of conspiracy theory. Also some comments which appear to relate unrelated issues together in an aim to blame anyone by association. I thought I might be joining a forum which had some decent conversation. Is this true and the recent series of comments just a rarity? If however it is the norm then thank you and I’ll join a forum which appreciates input in a different way.
The rotation of the keyboard offence brigade is full on!
Their numbers are more than you can shake a stick at.
“Their numbers are more than you can shake a stick at.”
And certainly more than you are able to engage in a constructive argument?
James, welcome to the mad-house! Do stay, and get a feel for the place. There are occasional outbreaks of some excellent debate (whistleblowing, moderate governance versus Islamism, what the liberal position should be on immigration, the social function of religion, strategies for overcoming neoliberal power, whether US Democrats would be better voting for libertarians) but, of late, we have had a little bit of sniping, which in the main is best ignored.
There are some excellent posters here, the trick is to get them onto their pet topics. Craig is our benevolent (though often absent) host, and I moderate (lightly I think, but that is also a subject of debate). I do a mix of staying out of people’s way if I can, and occasionally having a post myself.
Compare and contrast. Why the difference in the sentences?
1.The US army psychiatrist (Hasan) who killed 13 people at Fort Hood has been found guilty and will receive the death penalty.
‘Hasan never denied opening fire in a crowded waiting room at Fort Hood, where unarmed troops were making final preparations to deploy to Afghanistan and Iraq.
All but one of the dead were soldiers, including a pregnant private who curled on the floor and pleaded for her baby’s life.
The sentencing phase is expected to begin with more testimony from survivors of the attack in a medical center where soldiers were waiting in long lines for immunizations and medical clearance.’
2.The US army sergeant Bales who killed 16 Afghani civilians has been found guilty and gets life without parole.
‘He (Bales) acknowledged he burned some of the victims’ bodies, although he said he did not remember actually doing it.
When asked why he had committed the killings, Bales said he had asked himself that question “a million times”, adding: “There’s not a good reason in this world for why I did the horrible things I did.”
Bales had been facing a military court-martial trial on 16 counts of pre-meditated murder and other charges related to two 2012 overnight raids that left more than a dozen civilians dead including 11 members of one family – most of them women and children.’
Links Sky News
This is not a forum, and it is blog ie a web log, and if you find the back-biting so common due to the copious unconscious drivelling of the agents of reaction and inertia too much to stomach, that is your choice. However as Giovanni Agnelli used to say; “cemeteries are full of indispensable people”!
Choice is yours, you can contribute regardless of the eddy currents caused by the recalcitrant agents of reaction and paid stooges, or you can give in and walk on!
I noted a while back that John Goss was applying the fascist label to the present UK government for its current campaign against illegal immigrants. While I in no way support their current actions – which are clearly in the nature of a petty racist dog whistle to some voters.
I wonder perhaps if John Goss would apply the same fascist label to the Russian regime for its current campaign against illegal immigrants which anyone with any sense of judgement can see is of a far higher degree, and which he will have not seen reported by Russia Today (no surprise there then)http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/06/russia-immigrants-concentration-camps
A simple yes or no answer will suffice.
Did you right this all by yourself, or did someone wrote it for you?
Constructive and ziofcukwit are antonyms. None of the said ziofuckwits are ever given to construction, other than the Wall of apartheid. On the other hand they are given to uprooting of the hundreds of years old olive trees, destruction of the Palestinians homes, razing Palestinian villages, annexation of the Palestinian lands, use of chemical weapons on Palestinians, use of insidious DIME weapons on Palestinians, use of tank flechette shells, …… There can be no “constructive” of any kind with these destructive mercenaries.
@ Resident Dissident
Good to see you back!