The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
@ Flaming June
That post on Stormfront, as brought to our attention by Resident Dissident – was it really you or not?
I should like to hear you disown it, but your silence is puzzling.
“Hagel thinks it would be an awfully good idea if the US lined up its naval power in the region against the Syrian coast”
Though of course it didn’t worry you too much when the Syrian navy was there shelling the Palestininian refugee camp at Latakia?
Given the post on Stormfront clearly had one objective of whipping up fascist low life to come to this site and attack Habba – I think he deserves an answer to the question as to whether or not the post was yours or someone elses.
@Villager. 2 58am
“Sofia, no doubt you recognised all the signatories at the bat of an eyelid and concluded they were all ‘prominent’.”
You have me bang to rights on that one. No, I admit it, I didn’t recognise every last one.
The reason I posted was not to show whether Jews could get into Hello Magazine or not.
You might want to check out these Jewish people too, http://www.jfjfp.com . You’ll find, as with the Nigel Kennedy issue, that concern for human rights of the victims of Al Nakba is not just a gentile thing.
Tell me, are you one of those who like to conflate Jewishness with unquestioning support for the continuing horrors being done in the name of “Jews”?
“Tell me, are you one of those who like to conflate Jewishness with unquestioning support for the continuing horrors being done in the name of “Jews”?”
Yes there are a few like that Sofia. Thankfully I made my views clear at 11.12 p.m. last night despite the ‘shower of shills’ trying to make me out to have views I don’t hold, one being the target of your comment.
Overheard part of news report in the background claiming polls indicated 60% of Americans oppose intervention in Syria. Don’t know if this was before or after alleged gas attack. Can’t find anything current online. Closest is:
“Americans are hardly clamoring for war. Polls have consistently found that most people in the United States, tired from the costly and bloody fights in the Muslim world over the last decade, see little upside to US involvement in a conflict that in some ways mirrors that of Iraq.”
http://www.3news.co.nz/Obama-plays-down-prospect-of-Syrian-intervention/tabid/417/articleID/310413/Default.aspx
Not that public opinion matters. Old media are all claiming “something must be done” and “how could anyone doubt it when both President Clinton and Senator McCain advocate intervention”.
It’s easy to tell when we’re about to end a war or start a new one. That’s when the media privilege us with unblurred pics of dead and dying children. Following the two second warning, “These are horrific images. Have your children leave the room”. As if families still gather around the TV with TV dinners perched on TV trays for the evening network news.
Remember the pic of the napalmed Vietnamese girl? Or the stories of Saddam’s crew overturning baby incubators in Kuwait (don’t know if there were pics). Or for that matter Saddam’s counter-propaganda of the bombed baby-milk factory with signage in English.
Should we not formally end our two official ongoing wars in a gentlemanly fashion before starting a new one? Is Henry still fit for travel to Dubai for negotiation of table shape and table covering with Talabanis? Hey, there’s another Nobel peace prize to re-award to someone more worthy.
What’s the big deal with poison gas? I see the objections back in WWI when it was novel and outrageous, but does it matter now when victims are incinerated, perforated, blown asunder or vaporized — all equally unpleasant outcomes.
Suhayl very eloquently pointed out in your posts that there was a significant “liberal secular” body of thought within Egypt that stood between the extremes of the Islamists and the hardline authoritarians within the military – although he doen’t appear to acknowledge that such a body of thought might also exist in Syria and now be in desperate need of our support.
Most here seem to be of a mindset that somehow people in that part of the world are somehow incapable of being secular liberals and therefore have to fall into one of the other camps – with the one they chose to support usually having the loudest anti-western voice (some here were even a few months ago were attacking the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood as being backed by the US). We were even treated to Craig employing the same logic with regard to the recent disputes in Turkey. One might see this two dimensional view about the politics of that part of the World as being somewhat racist – but then you have to remember that the self same people are only able to distinguish one body of thought within the vast majority of people here in the West who as a whole support democratic values.
All of which leads onto the question raised by Komodo (I think) as to what should be done. Well as a secular liberal (and btw I don’t interpret secular as being without religion as in my case but just recognising that religion is an individual freedom which can best maintained by a State that is at best neutral in its support of all all religions) I believe the best way is to listen, talk to and provide support (and that only in extremis means military support) to secular liberals in other countries – and be guided by what the secular liberals in those countries say and advise. I don’t believe that this will offer quick solutions – and there also has to be a recognition of the need for compromise (but that is something secular liberals are always being accused of resorting to too easily) – but quite frankly I see little other way forward.
And lets not pretend that secular liberals do not exist in Israel – they do are more often than not are linked to here when they highlight the latest offence/attrocity/misdemeanour of the Israeli authoritarians – it is just that no one hear actually wants to listen to what they are proposing in any detail.
Julian Assange talks of, among other things, the Pentagon’s aim of world domination, and his own aim to prevent this. I know whose side I’m on.
http://www.triplem.com.au/sydney/breaking-news/blog/2013/8/julian-assange-interview-eddie-mcguire-on-election-wikileaks-and-secretive-governments/
Technicolour @12.11am
I have no problem whatsover with whistleblowers pointing out the misdemeanours of those in power in the West or anywhere else – and you perhaps should remember that here in the UK the last government introduced legislation giving (imperfect) protection to whistleblowers. That said whistleblowers also have responsibilities to protect the innocent and use some discrimination with regard to the information that they release – the Guardian clearly recognises this as do some former employees of Wikileaks – Assange, Bradley Manning do not. Assange is also very partial with regards to whose information he leaks – there are no recent leaks from Russia (or other Governments which support his geopolitical standpoint) on Wikileaks and Wikileaks has offered negligible support to those organisations/individuals which do wish to publish such leaks.
@John Goss
And of course the Russian and Chinese governments have no inclinations with regard to world domination whatsover?
Resident Dissident, at 9:16am, brilliant post, and thanks. I agree.
“he doesn’t appear to acknowledge that such a body of thought might also exist in Syria and now be in desperate need of our support.” Resident Dissident.
Good point – thanks for raising it – of course they do. The problem with “our support” is that on the whole it’s been such a poisoned chalice delivered in bad faith for so long that no-one trusts us and anyone associated with us is seen as being untrustworthy. I think that long-term, the broad thrust in paragraph 3 of your post is the only way forward if we want to be constructive in that region – and that region, of course, has a major impact on the world. There are no quick solutions, you’re absolutely right. It requires long-sightedness and statesmanship.
The geo-political reality also necessitates a ‘grand bargain’ with Iran in relation to any of the configurations in the ‘Greater Middle East’. I wish The Clinton Administration had engaged wit President Khatami’s offer of just that, back in 1998, at a time when when the regressive elements in Iran had been weakened. I also wish that the USA (and I’m not saying that everything is down to the USA, but they are a key player and are in a position to set the pre-requisites for much else) had leveraged Israel with respect to the Beirut agreement of 2002, promoted by King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia in relation to a proper, two-state solution for Palestine:Israel with mutual guarantees of recognition and security and with both states having defined, final borders, and much else. Thanks to Bush/Blair’s idiotic invasion, Iraq now is much more problematic, but Iran and Israel:Palestine are resolvable. And resolution of those dyanmics would have a massive stabilising effect on the whole region.
However, 10-15 years, and an ocean of blood, later, I fear that time may have run out, that there will be a spiral of increasingly instability, violence and balkanised, failed states across the entire region. If Saudi Arabia/UAE and Israel – and the West – imagine that they can erect walls against that kind of infernal, Hieronymus Bosch scenario, they are profoundly short-sighted and mistaken.
John
And so what view do you hold on Russia’s treatment of illegal immigrants – is it better or worse than that of the UK Government which you labelled as fascist?
Suhayl
One problem is that as always we have to start from where we are – poisoned chalice, bad faith and all that – so there has to be some short term thinking as well as long term. I also do not see Western governments as being quite as monolithic as you do – yes they do contain imperialists and authoritarians but there are also other strands of thought which can be encouraged through the means that we have in our hands.
Short term I would be taking advice from the secular liberals in Syria, Israel, Egypt, Iran and Palestine as to the next steps.
RD, you keep commenting about my referring to the UK as a fascist country. Show me where I have said that and I will answer your questions.
Ecuador is now contemplating a new bill that would criminalize publishing classified documents;
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130821/22402024279/ecuador-looks-to-ban-wikileaks-like-offerings-despite-housing-assange.shtml
Hypocrisy and distortion drips off that Assange interview like fat from a George Foreman.
Was the question of the mystery poster ever answered?
So we have a professional UN Chemical Weapons Inspection Team ensconced in a high rise Damascus hotel for two days waiting to move into action and Assad arranges a show for them 45 minutes away that may even be viewable from their balcony-WTF?!!!! 1300 dead including children all filmed in advance according to Lavrov. Honestly these SS devils think we are all stupid, especially after Ehud Borg got away with 911. I would not be surprised if he was again the mastermind in charge of this attack on Damascus suburbs, the seed of the original irgun/haganah/stern gang terrorists who started way back with the King David Hotel bombing in 1946, does not retire easily – the only way is for the Almighty to keep them in limbo like Sharon, not even to be admitted to Hell! SILENT, you bet he will be again.
Re StormFront: Be aware if you visit or post there you’re tracked, not only by NSA/GCHQ/Homeland Security, but also the Southern Poverty Law Center and maybe commercial interests selling ads.
I followed someone on Twitter, who was alleged to be a racist, solely on the basis of three nasty messages posted there in his name. Whether they were his or put there by an impostor to smear him I don’t know. He was a nutter posting all over the Internet including the DemocraticUnderground, and as far as I could tell he wasn’t a racist and had multiracial friends, but had been engaged in a vicious years-long flame war.
After I followed him and then later peeked at StormFront, Twitter consistently presented me with three suggestions to follow. Two were always StormFront related; usually swastikas or a pic of Adolf himself. The third choice was often a black pop singer or rapper.
Was it some test to see where my true loyalties lay? Were Nazis buying ads on Twitter? Is StormFront a honeypot to ensnare white supremacists?
I know nothing about Stormfront nor have I left any comment there. I have only just read through some of the garbage from last night and overnight. The resident invigilator should his/her own business.
Take no notice John. They are here to disrupt, divide, destabilize and to eventually destroy – very much like the COnDem plan for our NHS.
It was always bad enough when pages 6 or 7 on a blogpost from Craig were reached. At page 17, it has become quite ridiculous.
Resident Dissident at 9:55am, today:
“One problem is that as always we have to start from where we are – poisoned chalice, bad faith and all that – so there has to be some short term thinking as well as long term. I also do not see Western governments as being quite as monolithic as you do – yes they do contain imperialists and authoritarians but there are also other strands of thought which can be encouraged through the means that we have in our hands.
Short term I would be taking advice from the secular liberals in Syria, Israel, Egypt, Iran and Palestine as to the next steps.” Resident Dissident.
Yes, you’re right. Broadly, it’s the only approach, really, that could be constructive. I think we also have to engage with the reformist Islamists, who basically are the equivalents of Khatami et al in Iran, and who want to move their societies and nations in a progressive direction and be independent. For example, the ones in Saudi Arabia, with whom King Abdullah, actually, tends often to be in support (but of course, he does not rule alone; it’s the Al Saud clan and their interests – again, not monolithic – which rule that country).
The price of oil
RIP George Allison, 57, Sarah Darnley, 45, Gary McCrossan, 59, Duncan Munro, 46,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-23822420
Re Damascus suburb nerve gas we have to concede Comical Shlomo has even surpassed Comical Ali of Baghdad Gulf War yore, with his blatant attempt at propaganda.
http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-prepared-advance-901/
Disturbing story about creepy Lib Dem MP Mike Hancock.
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=hp_sauce&issue=1347
Good for Sundus Saleh and good wishes foe success in her legal action. Haven’t heard anything about this from our state broadcaster. I see the PNAC is named.
DOJ Wants Bush, Senior Cabinet Members Exempt From Iraq War Trial
August 22, 2013 “Information Clearing House – “rt” – The United States Department of Justice has requested that former President George W. Bush and the highest figures in his administration receive full exemption from being tried for the Iraq War, which the DoJ says was in line with international law.
Apart from Bush, the names listed in the paper the DoJ filed on Tuesday are former Vice President Richard Cheney, former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, retired four-star General Colin Powell, former Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice and former Deputy Secretary of Defense and President of the World Bank, Paul Wolfowitz.
Sundus Saleh, an Iraqi single mother of three who became a refugee, filed a complaint in March in the San Francisco federal court, claiming that the war in her country can be judged as a ‘crime of aggression’, according to the same legal standards that the Nuremberg Tribunal used for convicting Nazi war criminals of World War II.
Saleh is the lead plaintiff in this class action lawsuit.
The reason for the decision is connected with the ‘Westfall Act’ certification. The 1988 law gives the Attorney General the power to personally decide whether the United States is actually a defendant in the case. This in turn allows the granting of absolute immunity to politicians for actions carried out while in the government’s employ.
Inder Comar of Comar Law has agreed to take the case. The San-Francisco-based firm normally specializes in support to private companies, particularly those in the tech industry. Comar met with Saleh at her home in Jordan to discuss the case.
/..
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35940.htm
“I know nothing about Stormfront nor have I left any comment there. ”
Thats all I wanted to know – thank you. Someone is clearly using your handle there and linking to this blog in order to create trouble.
Flaming June at 10.36 a.m. I must stick by my word if RD can find an instance to justify his accusation/invention.
So the Pentagon is virtually “conTrolling” the world.
We are very aware that diplomacy is currenrtly missing.
Hence the incaptulation of Julian Assange on trumpt up charges.
Work hard for diplomacy, omg lol what a nightmare!
Liberal diplomacy?
Where!
Thanks for your elaborations, NR.
Just to explain,gender reassignment entails a multiple of issues, something that would only be undertaken after a minimum of 2 years counselling and a highly specialised field of work.
Another very important point, gender has nothing to do with sexuality, so please, lets not mix the two. Those
of you who would like to inform themselves of the research and issues involved, please try this organisation, as recommended by a relative who has worked in gender reassignment for over 30 years.
Some say that the chemical imbalances we have caused throughout the food chain, the fact that we have powerful plastics mimicking oestrogen, as well as the existing oestrogen in the water supply, just one gender bending hormone, has changed our bodies and that of newborn.
It will take some time for people to cotton on to the power of hormones
http://www.gires.org.uk/
Des Res
Secular means separating the religious from the rest of life.
A Muslim by definition cannot be secular because Islam is religion for all aspects of life. The dispute in Egypt is not between secular, i.e. non-religious, citizens, and foaming mad mullahs who make it up as they go along and disobey the commands of God in the religion. It is between those who work within the constraints of Islam and those who wish to control other Muslims through lying, spying, threatening with loss of employment right up to imprisonment and physical beatings.
The army realised that ordinary Muslim citizens had more to fear from political Islam sponsored by USUKIS , the proven enemies of Islam than from their own brutal crackdown. No one can live a tightly controlled religious existence if a group of power crazed nutters are re-inventing the rules for their own benefit.
Obama not happy. Arab spring like Jack in box. Go wrong.
NR said:
That is the comical caricature, which the current fascist brigades can hide behind and get on with their favoured mode of politics without worrying about getting found out. Strange that the old, foetid, worn out skeleton of yea olde Austrian painter, who has been dead, buried, and turned to dust, yet remains relevant and for some unfathomable reason cuurent. Further the symbolisms used by the said skeletal dust ie the “swastika”, still seems to be in demand.
There are those whom blame the Hollywood for making all those anti German movies, that has turned the old skeletal dust into some kind of an anti-hero, that every rebellious antisocial teenager, finds as a role model!