The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Resident Dissident, 24/8 9.24
Who are they then? Do tell.
If white supremacists did come here (and they’ve been here before; there are some extremely highly educated people among them), one suspects they would get short shrift. One thinks of Woody Guthrie’s guitar…
[From the Syrian News Agency]:
“He explained that the committee will investigate sides agreed upon by the committee and the Syrian Foreign and Expatriates Ministry, including Khan al-Assal which prompted Syria to request the committee in the first place.
The Minister said that the committee informs the Syrian authorities of its movements and that the authorities in turn will ensure their safety and requirements in areas where there are no terrorist groups, while other areas are a different matter altogether.
Al-Zoubi said that Syria made clear its decision to confront terrorist groups which must surrender their weapons and withdraw from areas where chemical weapons were allegedly used so that the committee can inspect them and so that Syrian state establishments can also examine the areas and the environmental situation in them, adding that those who speak from abroad on behalf of the terrorist groups must order them to withdraw from these areas.
He noted that when the recent incidents took place, Syria said in an official statement that there’s an attempt to divert the committee from its tasks and mission because it has sites to visit and evidence to go through, and that the attempts to disrupt the committee shows dissatisfaction over the way Syria responded to this team and its cooperation with it, saying that this would explain why the Ghouta incident took place on the first day of the committee’s actual work.
The Minister wondered why the US didn’t act when Khan al-Assal incident took place, pointing out that at that time, Syria made an official complaint, addressing the UN and requesting an investigation committee, adding “when they realized that the ones who committed the crime in Khan al-Assad were armed terrorist group, they tried to delay the committee and started hindering any agreement and talking about several areas and conditions.”
On news of the US increasing its ships’ presence in the Mediterranean, al-Zoubi said that the US habitually has a fleet in the Mediterranean, but if the media talk about the US administration considering “options” is meant to pressure Damascus to cease its military operations against terrorists, then this pressure will not succeed and is a waste of time, as confronting terrorism in Syria will continue and is an issue form which the Syrian leadership will not back down.”
http://sana.sy/eng/21/2013/08/24/498973.htm
In order to achieve political literacy, I think it’s important to consider multiple accounts. We are not getting access to these other narratives via the UK mainstream media.
Flaming June @7.32am – I disagree with your analysis.
Suhayl – I think the most important point in issue at the moment is whether or not the Syrian government is prepared to allow access to the UN Inspectors – given that the opposition has very clearly stated that they will it is pretty clear where the finger of guilt is starting to point.
Even if the Syrian Government is repsponsible I still beleive that there is a lot that can be done before resorting to miliary action in retaliation – I would start with making life more difficult for those countries which are already openly interfering in support of the Assad regime. Perhaps freezing the personal assets held abroad of members of the Russian government(usually counter to Russian laws btw) might help to concentrate minds.
Lines from Mano Chao “Rainin In Paradise” circa 2007
http://lyrics-keeper.com/ru/mano-chao/rainin-in-paradise.html
Welcome to paradise
Welcome to paradise
Today it’s raining (x8)
In Palestina, too much hypocricy
This world go crazy, it’s no fatality
In Baghdad, it’s no democracy
That’s just because, it’s a US Country
In Fallujah, too much calamity
This world go crazy, it’s no fatality
Welcome to paradise
Come to the fairy lies
Welcome to paradise
Today it’s raining (4x)
Six years later the world’s gone crazier, the rain is heavier, and we’re circling the drain more rapidly. In spite of my pessimism and cynicism I have an optimistic side that hopes for better, just don’t see how at the moment. As Habbabkuk says, Life is Good — for some of us, but it may not be for much longer.
Later
1/. Can I assume that posters here agree that illegal immigration (I am talking about illegal economic immigration and not asylum seekers or refugees as defined by international conventions) is not a welcome phenomenon (for a variety of reasons, exploitation of the people concerned not being the least)?
No. These people are migrants; we should not label a person “illegal” just on the grounds (hah) of where they are living. If we didn’t label them illegal they would not be a policing problem. They would just be people living here, paying the same taxes as the rest of us, subject to the same laws as the rest of us, protected by the same laws too. Sadly, these are ineffective laws. We should be targeting employers, who find it far too easy to exploit cheap labour, and who collude in making labour as cheap as possible. Labour should never be cheap, and never exploitable. (And yes, I do believe in open borders.)
John Goss
I am glad that like myself you disagree with all forms of racism and are not a fan of border control official, but I am sorry but you have not answered my question – given what the Guardian says do you consider the Russian government to be blatanly racist? Yes or no? You are able to offer such a pronouncement on the UK Government – and quite freely apply similar labels to its allies – so why are you so coy about Russia?
Arbed
You know very well who they are. Naming some of them on my part will only lead into the usual denunciation of apostates from the order of St Julian. Those who are genuinely interested and not in the know can Google former employees of Wikileaks and see endless testament from both sides of the argument – but beware brevity is not seen as a virtue when it comes to Wikileaks.
Sophia
You seem to have adopted the position that those who disagree with your world view are by definition liars and of a low moral standing than yourself – rather than just disagreeing with you and having different values. Might I suggest that such a position says more about yourself than anything else and will not advance human understanding by one jot – and such an attitude is the root cause of most war and misery in this world.
“Might I suggest that such a position says more about yourself than anything else and will not advance human understanding by one jot – and such an attitude is the root cause of most war and misery in this world.”
Res Diss, yes, these people don’t see themselves as mere shallow propagandists and therefore part of the problem. They are essentially intellectually dishonest and as a result of there biases unaware of the their own bigotry, that is why i am hesitant to call them liars. There’s not much objectivity around here if that’s what you’re looking for.. Even the moderator Jon has now got caught in their trap and instead of fostering that rigour of objectivity has fallen to censorship — just the thing they object to in the real world. Ironic.
Ok, ResDes, I’ll “beware brevity” and do as you suggest. I’ve Googled “former employees of Wikileaks” to capture the full sweep of it:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=former+employees+of+wikileaks&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest
Oh look, there’s two!
First James Ball, an intern who worked there between 23 November 2010 and 15 December 2010. There are dark stories that it is he who stole the Swedish police protocol from the Wikileaks email server while Assange was indisposed courtesy of Wandsworth jail and passed it to his future colleague at the Guardian, Nick Davies. Nick then obliged the world by writing a highly salacious and distorted account of same, “10 Days in Sweden, published 17 December 2010, thereby launching the Guardian’s smear campaign against their erstwhile contractual partner. Oddly enough, James Ball, journalism student extraordinaire, was given a job at the Guardian within the month. All detailed here:
http://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/gibney-transcript.html#3959
The second former employee, Daniel Domscheit-Berg, apparently fled Iceland on 7 February 2010 (four days after Chelsea Manning made her first upload to Wikileaks, it turns out) with some kind of nervous breakdown. He was frozen out from that point on and played no part in the prepping or publication of Collateral Murder (other than to liaise with the woman booking the press venue for the public launch) or any of the subsequent 2010 releases. He was, however, still a (somewhat unreliable – he kept misrepresenting himself as the site’s founder) spokesperson in Germany, and dealt with the Wau Holland Foundation and server maintenance there. That’s how he managed to sabotage Wikileaks’ mail server, steal the Wikileaks submission system, destroy unpublished whistleblower submissions and steal donations, thus earning himself the sack, in August/September 2010:
http://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/gibney-transcript.html#630 (and lots more of these notes throughout this transcript)
http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2011/08/21/openleaks-founder-destroys-cache-of-unreleased-wikileaks-documents/
Couple of good sources you have there, ResDes.
Resident Dissident, 10.20am
What do you make of this?
If it isn’t Sarin, what is it?
http://strongpointsecurity.co.uk/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/If-not-Sarin_then-what.pdf
Dan Kaszeta is the author of “CBRN and Hazmat Incidents at Major Public Events: Planning and Response” (Wiley, 2012) as well as a number of magazine articles and conference papers. He has 22 years of experience in CBRN, having served as an officer in the US Army Chemical Corps, as
CBRN advisor for the White House Military Office, and as a specialist in the US Secret Service.
Arbed
“Those who are genuinely interested and not in the know”
I wouldn’t have place you in either of those categories. Let people form their own views rather than presenting your own selctive view of the evidence as though it were fact.
“If it isn’t Sarin, what is it?”
I don’t have a clue not being an expert on poison gases – might I suggest we leave it to the UN inspectors, if they are allowed in, or to the experts who will examine the evidence from victims provided to MSF.
RD, further to mine above, for example, Jon declares:
“….Craig is our benevolent (though often absent) host, and I moderate (lightly I think, but that is also a subject of debate). I do a mix of staying out of people’s way if I can, and occasionally having a post myself.”
______________
I have asked Jon to point out to me where this debate exists, but all he did was deleted/censored my comment. If ANY reader here can point me out where such a ‘debate’ has taken place, other than Jon’s dismissals, please do so.
Villager
I too avoid calling them liars – or intellectually dishonest for that matter as I really cannot analyse their state of mind from a blog post. Better just to confine yourself to pointing out the factual errors and inconsistencies in their posts and leave them to wrestle with their own individual consciences. I am by now pretty much immune to their name calling, as i suspect you, Habba, CE and others are, so I really don’t feel the need to run to the moderator for protection.
Arbed, what do you make of Assange going into politics? Is he doing it for the right reasons? Is he going about it the right way? What of the recent accusations of his autocratic style? Do you think he’s biting off more than he can chew? I don’t know if you’re interested in all this.
@Res Diss and Villager.
So, people who act to create the illusion that innocent individuals are posting anti-semitic bullshit on Nazi websites are not “by definition liars and of a low moral standing”?
Those who dare to point this out are “the root cause of most war and misery in this world.”
Um, I think I understand now. Thanks for your endorsement.
ResDes,
One further question regarding your ex-employee sources. What do you make of this, in light of the fact that Daniel Domscheit-Berg’s wife Anke (whom he met and married very quickly after his departure from Iceland) is “Director Government Relations & Innovative Government Programs Lead Germany at Microsoft”?:
“Windows 8 is an unacceptable security risk for companies and authorities, experts warn the government. The so-called Trusted Computing is a back door for the NSA”
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeit.de%2Fdigital%2Fdatenschutz%2F2013-08%2Ftrusted-computing-microsoft-windows-8-nsa
I wonder what’s happened to Craig. Anyone talked to him recently?
ResDes,
Blimey, you’re hard to please. I gave the full Google page for “former employees of Wikileaks” so people could do just that. And added some facts, for readers here with a predisposition to believe that not everything they read in the newspapers is true.
RD, my comment of intellectual dishonesty is based on pure and ongoing observation here and pointed out real-time. Most of them are very subtle, sometimes blatant. Habby has been witness to all, but for the most part and its not a conclusion on my part, as in an ending, but just to point out the folly of their ways if they genuinely want change.
As for moderator protection, i agree with you.
Btw, i suspect you can rid of the black box if you care to by using a different email address. Have a good day.
ResDes, 12.02pm
Five minutes to read a 6-page pdf full of technical details? Can you pass on where I can sign up for the speed-reading classes you’ve been attending please? I’d like to develop that skill.
Arbed
What i make of this is that 2 people fell in love and got married – other things can be at work here than the standard conspiracy theories.
Sophie
I don’t think it was an illusion that anti-semitic bullshit was posted in the name of an innocent people on a Nazi website (that much is fact) – what I know is that it wasn’t me that did so and I also know that you can produce no evidence to the contrary and your accusations against me are baseless. I am also aware, as you are, that it would be impossible to prove my innocence other than to myself which is of course the area in which you choose to operate.
As for the root cause comment – please read what I said more carefully.
Arbed
It took me less than 15 seconds to work out the paper was at a technical level that was beyond by competence (Chemistry O level) – hence I specifically didn’t express a view on its contents.
“I think the most important point in issue at the moment is whether or not the Syrian government is prepared to allow access to the UN Inspectors – given that the opposition has very clearly stated that they will it is pretty clear where the finger of guilt is starting to point.”
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/08/24/320330/syria-will-let-un-probe-chem-attack/
Villager asked (not me):
> what do you make of Assange going into politics?
Good luck to him, but I don’t like his chances.
> Is he doing it for the right reasons?
His reasons are more ‘righteous’ than just about any other politician I can think of.
> Is he going about it the right way?
I’m nor sure, he probably ain’t perfect, but its real easy to sit back and snipe at the guy while doing sweet fuck all yourself (speaking from experience).
> What of the recent accusations of his autocratic style?
Someone involved in politics is full of themselves? Say it ain’t so. He is a hell of a lot better than all the mainstream parties in AU/USA/UK. JA/the WL party, the Greens and the Pirate party are the only political parties (in Australia) I would stop to piss on if they were on fire. I would happily watch all the others burn to the ground.
> Do you think he’s biting off more than he can chew?
Indubitably. He has formed an organisation that by design is in conflict with the largest and most powerful empire the world has ever known. I would still choose his party to represent me, at least he cares enough to risk his own neck for what he believes in.
I’m kinda confused by people that criticise JA so much for his character flaws. Those same flaws are certainly shared by virtually every western politician. The mainstream/status quo has failed us miserably. Yet all these people who are supposedly unhappy with the current state of affairs trip over themselves to nit pick every flaw of JA. The perfect representative simply does not exist.
BTW Villager, I would advise you drop the moderation complaints, they don’t make you or your arguments look any better…. only worse.
A major sign of the coming of the Last Day will be the truth being turned upside down, the dershowitzery in this blog from the well synced SS is a good example. Next they will be telling us it wasnt Ehud Borgs doing, the hundreds of tons of sulphurous molten metal in the basements of the 911 WTCs, they were simply a result of steel girders meelted by a deadly mixture of kerosene and kedem!
Krishnamurky, I apologise for appearing to be nosy, but you’re religious, aren’t you? What particular Christian denomination are you? My interest is that religion often acts as a filter for ones views, and so our being aware of some minor autobiographical titbits can sometimes assist in interpreting views aired.
I’m sure there will be an End Times, but not in any Revelations sense, and nor will thousands of chosen ones float up to heaven in their pyjamas. Either we’ll have blown ourselves up in a nuclear war, or we’ll have singularly failed to combat climate change, and the planet will remove us. It would be mighty handy to have a deity of some sort appear – with or without noodly appendages! – but I am not convinced that it will.
Why would anyone want to talk to Craig, when we have characters such as Res Dis and that flaccid ‘it’ to make do with, such fun.
Whilst western powers refused to inspect the rebell’s victims of chemical attacks, desperate to show the UN team their prepared sites and samples, Craig is busy serving drinks and extolling the values of Scottish Independence.
Today’s news that contingencies are being drawn up to stop Assad’s actions with air strikes, tallies with Mark G. and his info from Cyprus.
The UN team everyone is getting so tense about is just a shiner, regardless of what they find French UK and US forces are forging ahead to poison the middle east for decades to come, not a single country will want to be aligned to the EU and their 400Billion concentrated solar power plans, we all will be forced to stay with the fossil fuel cycle.so the usual tax dodging companies can make a buck, not give a fuck.
Whether Russia and China think they are next after NATO, now a dangerous chimera that listens and acts on behalf of fascists, has finished with Syria and Iran, is to be seen in their reactions.
If both pull in their tails and watch what is happening, then the west might take that as a sign of weakness. Should China and Russia decide to have some manoeuvres in Nicaragua’s territorial waters, together with Mexican navy boats for example, or offering Mexico a military alignment pact of sorts, setting up radar station somewhere in Sonora’s highlands, watching what’s going on in Nevada and Texas, then we will see a further hardening of our Governments, more bellicose old fashioned cold war rhetoric, though more dangerous than ever.
Suhayl at 9:38 re fairly reporting on Syria. Completely agree and it’s a dreadfully sad state of affairs – what can one do? That’s mostly rhetorical, of course, since the answer is “mostly nothing”.
MediaLens has been rather quiet of late – should think there’s plenty of material for them there.