The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Villager, 12.10pm
Personally, I’m not convinced by it, though I think an attempt to return the Australian Senate to a House of Oversight seems a good fit, and he’s said there are mechanisms in place within Wikileaks (which he intends to continue anyway in the event he’s elected) to be able to publish leaks about the Wikileaks Party – ie. Wikileaks’ staff based o/s Australia would take the decision – though at the moment that process doesn’t seem to be working out too well, haha.
As for the internal divisions within the Wikileaks Party, and whether he’s responsible for it, I’ll wait for the promised independent review. My understanding thus far, though, is that:
1) Assange wasn’t paying much attention (because focused on Manning’s sentencing hearing and Snowden’s asylum bids/setting up his legal defence fund) and only ‘attended’ one National Council meeting (out of about a dozen).
2) There were two warring factions within the WLP National Council: pragmatists wanting to do preference deals to get elected; idealists wishing to write them on the basis of WLP supporter base ‘left-leaning’ politics. The latter group won and the preferences were decided on that basis.
3) Assange at one point wrote a tetchy email about “micromanaging the preferences” and suggesting the final decision be left up to candidates, with a veto for himself (!). This would not be in accordance with the WLP constitution and was therefore voted against.
4) On the basis of the above ‘mandate’ from Assange, the candidate for Western Australia preferenced an Aboriginal human rights activist, who was the candidate for the Nationals above long-time supporter of Wikileaks, the very popular Senator Ludlum. Note: In W. Australia the Nationals are not affiliated to the Coalition, so this preferencing did NOT jeopardise Ludlum’s chances of re-election. He’s a shoo-in and this preferencing was merely symbolic support for Aboriginal causes.
5) The NSW preferences for far-right (but minor) party Australia First and the Shooters & Fishers (also rightwing but not nearly as extreme and higher up the league of minor parties) were an “administrative error” according to some and the people responsible are “distraught”, or they were “an attempt to subvert the wishes of the National Council” according to the dissenters, with Assange’s father John Shipton fingered as the culprit. Apparently, he has a “monstrous ego” according to them. Both NSW candidates are staying on, saying “there’s been no skullduggery”. Note: the actual preferences in contention were S&F in 18th place, Aus First 24th and Greens 28th place on the NSW ticket.
6) The candidate who resigned, Leslie Cannold, admits she did not even bother to contact Assange to discuss her decision before taking it all to the press, despite saying that “it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do” and recognising that her resignation would impact on him most of all.
7) Assange seems to have stirred the pot by going on a radio interview and saying that he’s to blame for “over-delegating”; he prefers Binoy Kampmark as a running mate anyway; it’s “teething troubles” and things should run smoother now that the “troublesome faction” has left; and all publicity is good publicity. Make of that what you will (sounds like he has all the makings of a politician to me ;))
That’s all I’ve managed to gather so far. Sounds like a complete balls-up and the WL Party is clearly not ready for prime time as a political party. I’m still undecided on how much of the blame should be laid directly at Assange’s door (which is a teeny tad removed – well, half a globe removed – from the main locus of the “implosion”).
Donald, Habbabkuk, all: if you want your own avatar, then get one at gravatar.com. You have to use a real email address, though you can always sign up for a new one for the purpose of commenting on blogs like this. Thus, it is the email address that selects the avatar, not the name.
PS. Or what Cheebacow said.
Habbadashery
The label that leads to confusion.
Does Kedem mean?:
Note Irgun, Lehi, Haganah were designation of terrorist organisations, which are in the none history now passed as “forces”. For sure ziofuckwits play on words, don’t they?
However Deir Yassin then begs to click on List of Arab Towns and Villages razed in 1948
Note the wordplay; “depopulated” ie ethnic cleansing, but it was the ziofuckwits doing it, so it is “depopulation”. In a few years time from now, the none history will be the great hope of the world and the only “democracy” in the cosmos zionistan buitl holiday chalets across the “eretz zionistan” and moved the Arab savages into these palatial and fabulous homes, and ensured their race carried on, because there was only about “ten” Palestinians left at that time! Genocidal wankers always spin a great yarn.
===
This moderation bucking blah……… I said ……blah ….rant but the fucking Mod ……. blah, blah … indeed, how dare? …….. stop…… these others ……. publishing …. you bastard!
Google ziofuckwit cut and paste huge link, blah, …… why ….. etc. bollocks.
I hope Jon will now wear a tutu when he is deleting posts, otherwise he is an anti tutu, anti ballet misogynist misandrist tweet, who wants to kill all Morris Dancers and pave all the gardens win cement. The world can see this without a doubt, and judge, as Kirshnafuckwit said; “ohhino hiihina bollockosonia bolix mucho mucho el toro shite” and we all know that now, don’t we?
Thanks for that excellent answer, Arbed, politics is a dirty business and it shows. It was to be expected that the WLP has teething troubles, every young political party goes through such birth pangs.
If he is able to pull his campaign together during the last week and appeals to the greater public via the internet alone, which is hard as not many do take much time out for political campaigns, the he might have a small chance. He should have consulted much earlier on setting up a party.
Question is, what will he do if he fails in his bid? when the reality dawns and he faces years in forced self detention? What has he got up his sleeve?
CheebaCow thanks for your responses at least some of which i observe to be very Pavlovian.
Re JA i omitted to mention my wider context: Has Assange decided to enter politics as past of some larger strategy to obtain his personal freedom? Btw, I do happen to believe that with a good legal team he’s capable of proving his innocence in Sweden. Also understand his concerns in arriving there without some sort of assurance of possible extradition.
If he’s sincere of furthering democracy in Australia, whose politics i declare i know little about, shouldn’t he delegate more responsibility to his National Council colleagues than less?
Also, i appreciate your advice about moderation but put it under the microscope. Isn’t it the root of submission? Wouldn’t you like to add your voice to freedom of speech? You get what you deserve. Please note that mine is not a ‘complaint’ — the whining and moaning, which has become a daily phenomena here, is the prerogative of others.
I believe RD made a very good point above viz. ” Better just to confine yourself to pointing out the factual errors and inconsistencies in their posts and leave them to wrestle with their own individual consciences.”
Btw, Sofia @
25 Aug, 2013 – 12:19 pm
@Res Diss and Villager.
So, people who act to create the illusion that innocent individuals are posting anti-semitic bullshit on Nazi websites are not “by definition liars and of a low moral standing”?
Those who dare to point this out are “the root cause of most war and misery in this world.”
Um, I think I understand now. Thanks for your endorsement.
__________
You’ve managed to make yourself completely incomprehensible. Are you spaced out or something? What is your point to me, you petty little propagandist? You’re going to have to do a lot better than barking up wrong trees if you want me to drop that description.
Jon:
(I’m continuing to answer posts not directed at me).
> Either we’ll have blown ourselves up in a nuclear war, or we’ll have singularly failed to combat climate change, and the planet will remove us. It would be mighty handy to have a deity of some sort appear
I largely share your opinion on how humans will cease to exist (if it occurs in the near future, eg < 2000 year). Now here is where I insert my metaphysical train of thought/rant. The universe is our deity. The cool part is that each one of us is literally the universe experiencing itself subjectively. As the late great Bill Hicks quipped:
“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.”
Personally I have never really got into the acid/shroom spirituality. Having said that, I think modern science pretty much agrees with the above quote). If we fail to discover our true nature (or the universes, see Hinduisms Atman & Brahman) then we will destroy ourselves. Mini gods committing suicide. The universe will be the deity wiping us out. But you're right, there will be no individual deity wagging their finger at us as it all goes up in smoke.
If anyone thinks I'm being to earnest/pretentious/hippy-ish I give you another Hicks quote:
"Did you know that every time a guy comes, he comes 200 million sperm? Did you know that? And you mean to tell me you think your child is special? Because one out of 200 million sperm connected … that load? Gee, what are the fucking odds? Do you know what that means? I have wiped entire civilizations off of my chest, with a grey gym sock. That is special. Entire nations have flaked and crusted in the hair around my navel. That is special. And I want you to think about that, you two-egg-carrying beings out there with that holier-than-thou, we-have-the-gift-of-life attitude. I have tossed universes, in my underpants, while napping. That is special."
Nevermind,
and Villager,
No, I don’t think the Senate bid and the setting up of the Wikileaks Party are directly related to the situation in Sweden. He did first announce his political intentions re Australia in December 2011, I believe – well before he lost his appeal in the UK courts against extradition and subsequent decision to seek political asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy. He has said, however, that a successful election would help politically in respect of Sweden. As the Washington Post quoted recently: “The dirty little secret about extradition law,” he said, “is it’s really about 90 percent politics and only 10 percent law.”
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-19/world/40070600_1_extradition-u-s-authorities-u-s-officials
I don’t think he has the slightest doubt about being found innocent of the Swedish allegations, should he ever be charged for them; his worry is entirely about the likelihood of onward extradition to the US. Here’s a good recent interview with Iceland’s RUV television, in which he states:
http://www.ruv.is/frett/saenska-malid-bjargadi-lifi-minu
So, no doubting there that he believes that the withheld SMS texts between the women prove his innocence. These are the 100 SMS of which some are already floating around somewhere (George Galloway claims he has them “in my possession” and therefore he said – in the infamous Podcast for which he was criticised as a rape apologist – “I think it’s a set-up”).
Villager:
> CheebaCow thanks for your responses at least some of which i observe to be very Pavlovian.
Nice.
> If he’s sincere of furthering democracy in Australia, whose politics i declare i know little about, shouldn’t he delegate more responsibility to his National Council colleagues than less?
Can you name a single Labor/Liberal politician in Australia that is more committed to furthering democracy? Of course not, the idea is absurd at face value. So why all the hand ringing about JA not being an angel?
> Also, i appreciate your advice about moderation but put it under the microscope. Isn’t it the root of submission? Wouldn’t you like to add your voice to freedom of speech?
Honestly, that’s too precious.
> You get what you deserve.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
“John Goss
I am glad that like myself you disagree with all forms of racism and are not a fan of border control official, but I am sorry but you have not answered my question – given what the Guardian says do you consider the Russian government to be blatanly racist? Yes or no? You are able to offer such a pronouncement on the UK Government – and quite freely apply similar labels to its allies – so why are you so coy about Russia?”
________________
I second Resident Dissident’s question.
One notes that John Goss is free with his general denunciations of racism and his specific ones of racism in the West and at the same time I believe that hell will free over before John will type the word “Russia” into a denunciation of racism. He simply can’t bring himself to do it.
Keep up the good work : the corporals have fallen silent and the officers are fleeng towards the rear.
In the interests of transparency,to let yoll know where I am coming from,as Jehovahs Weaknesses sorry Witnesses, we believe the Beast referred to in the Bible is one and the same as the one referred to as satan-en-buzurg ie Great Satan by the ayatollahs – America.
And before Fedup goes into another fermented kedem influenced tirade, kedem referred to in my earlier post, was the expired grape juice Silverstein left behind as he hurried to his life saving “last minute” dental appointment on 911. BTW-its the favourite tipple of the hassidics who have lapsed into elohim hassidims.
thanks for the interview again, Arbed, it has to be said that he has rather a lot of fish on his plate,i.e. lots going on.
His position does not seem to change should there be a Labour Government be voted in, so the Ecuadorian Government really holds all the keys at present, and as long as they grant him asylum, he can safely fight his case against extradition to Sweden/US.
Any update on the policing costs? have we straddled the 5 million mark yet?
Des Res
Yes you want government to be secular and so does the BBC. That’s why it constantly refers to the opponents of Mursi/USUKIS masonic party/ Muslim Brotherhood as secular. They are mostly Muslim, not secular, but they believe they are accountable to God for their actions, not to clients of Zionist spying agencies who want to make Islam appear repellant to normal humanity, by giving governments in Muslim countries access to their spying facilities which enabled Mursi to target his ideological enemies with threats and violence.
The Egyptians did not want the brutal tyranny of one dictator to be replaced with the psychological tyranny of the dictator’s line-manager USUKIS armed with total jassous/spying capacity.
You don’t like 1000 year old texts. I do because they tell me that humans should be governed with humanity, and spying on humans is severely condemned as a gross intrusion on human dignity. A sect manufactured by UKUSIS would hardly be likely to pay mush attention to the word of God, would they?
Haberdashery – sock puppets??
Oh well I suppose you are all too busy enjoying your Sunday roasts to notice my jokes. Sigh.
Guano,
A clever joke too, to be sure. It had sailed straight over my head, I’m afraid, but I’d like to acknowledge it now.
I had wondered about that strange one-word post… I blame too much Yorkshire pud. Well, that’s my excuse.
Always honest, Arbed. Thank you for your responses, comprehensive so not much i can add. But who is Binoy Kampmark (and running mate for what/when)?
I should quickly add, objective too — not much of that around here, very rare commodity, second only to grace.
“Politics is the reconciliation of effects; and as most of us are concerned with effects, the external has assumed dominant significance. By manipulating effects we hope to bring about order and peace; but, unfortunately, it is not as simple as all that. Life is a total process, the inner as well as the outer; the outer definitely affects the inner, but the inner invariably overcomes the outer. What you are, you bring about outwardly. The outer and the inner cannot be separated and kept in watertight compartments, for they are constantly interacting upon each other; but the inner craving, the hidden pursuits and motives, are always more powerful. Life is not dependent upon political or economic activity; life is not a mere outward show, any more than a tree is the leaf or the branch. Life is a total process whose beauty is to be discovered only in its integration. This integration does not take place on the superficial level of political and economic reconciliations; it is to be found beyond causes and effects.
Because we play with causes and effects and never go beyond them, except verbally, our lives are empty, without much significance. It is for this reason that we have become slaves to political excitement and to religious sentimentalism. There is hope only in the integration of the several processes of which we are made up. This integration does not come into being through any ideology, or through following any particular authority, religious or political; it comes into being only through extensive and deep awareness. This awareness must go into the deeper layers of consciousness and not be content with surface responses.”
— Krishnamurky
Jon The post I complained about has moved from the top of this page to the previous one, I assume because of deletions.
The content is untrue and as it contains serious and defamation of my character and therefore brings this blog into disrepute, I request that it be deleted.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/07/feile-an-phobail-belfast/comment-page-17/#comment-425269
Apologies to make you read backwards, but should’ve added the pertinent paragraph prior to the above extract, if i may do so now:
“Have you noticed, in newspapers and magazines, the amount of space given to politics, to the sayings of politicians and their activities? Of course, other news is given, but political news predominates; the economic and political life has become all-important. The outward circumstances – comfort, money, position and power – seem to dominate and shape our existence. The external show – the title, the garb, the salute, the flag – has become increasingly significant, and the total process of life has been forgotten or deliberately set aside. It is so much easier to throw oneself into social and political activity than to understand life as a whole; to be associated with any organized thought, with political or religious activity, offers a respectable escape from the pettiness and drudgery of everyday life. With a small heart you can talk of big things and of the popular leaders; you can hide your shallowness with the easy phrases of world affairs; your restless mind can happily and with popular encouragement settle down to propagate the ideology of a new or of an old religion.”
http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teachings/view-text.php?tid=25&chid=61605&w=politicians
“In the interests of transparency,to let yoll know where I am coming from,as Jehovahs Weaknesses sorry Witnesses, we believe the Beast referred to in the Bible is one and the same as the one referred to as satan-en-buzurg ie Great Satan by the ayatollahs – America.”
As a JW you should also know they refrain from politics and the discussion thereof. Yet here you are. What are you really?
Hi Flamin’ June
I’ve read that post, but see only conjecture. It’s unpleasant, but I think you’ve refuted any accusation of racism, or posting on Stormfront, most successfully. I think Res Diss is wrong to apply accusations of antisemitism to you, but since he/she has not done so frequently, I think it can be left. “Racist” does tend to get lobbed around in all directions here, and it would be nice if it could be used more sparingly 🙂
I think CE in particular owes you an apology, since he/she was in a substantial rush to condemn you for a post you didn’t make.
I shall continue to delete posts that make the same attacks ad nauseum, of course. Hopefully we can now all agree that the post was made to cause a mischief, and that whether people here are to speak up for Palestine or Israel, malicious sock-puppetting on white power websites should be condemned by everyone.
CheebaCow, I did tell you the Resident Moaning Myrtle was a different one.
http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Myrtle
Habbabkuk, deleted the post you made just now. I should be most grateful if you would spend less time persistently throwing mud at individuals, and more time writing constructive posts responding to actual issues. Thanks.
MOD/JON
I posted my comment at 16h10 before I saw yours (yours only came up after I’d posted).
Neverthless, I would withdraw nothing, because I consider your reply to Flaming June’s request to be biassed and unsatisfactory.
1/. Res Diss’s post contains NO conjecture and is not unpleasant. It is an explanation of how he came to the spoof post. Facts, not conjecture and, moreover, facts which are neither pleasant nor unpleasant.
2/.You congratulate FJ for successfully refuting the “accusation” of posting on Stormfront. Firstly, Resident Dissident didn’t accuse FJ of anything : he came across a post signed FJ on Stormfront, brought it to our attention and asked her whether it came from her or not. Secondly, Resident Dissident accepted FJ’s denial without qualification (as , indeed, I did), but you do not see fo-it to remind us of that.
3/. You say you don’t agree that FJ is anti-semitic. Well, that’s fair enough. What is more worrying, however, is the implication that you’ll allow the post to stand because Resident Dissident has only said (or implied) that twice. Are we now going to have a quota system operating here. In my opinion, if someone’s post appears, prima facie, to be anti-semitic then anyone else has the right to say so and explain why – everytime. If there are a 100 such posts, then the poster can expect 100 rebuttals.
Having said all this, it may be that that you simply wished to refuse FJ’s request gently and that you might actually agree with some of the above.
Best!
PS – thanks for the avatar site, I’ll play with it 🙂 and see what happens
Dear Jon I hope you were wearing your tutu when deleting, if not why not?
Why do you hate Morris Dancers?
What do you have against tutus, and Ballet?
I was too once a misogynist, misandrist, and I wanted to cement all the gardens in the world, until I found peace by reading; “an old tosser pontificates”. Oh glory be, now I know best and no other fucker is a patch on me.
Read this life changing book and you too can stop being so bad, mad, and all those other things villager calls you!
I think that FJ was slinging mud at Resident Dissident (and others) and not the other way round.
And please note that any mud I do throw is at people’s IDEAS and COMMENTS and not at them (I couldn’t give a monkey’s about them personally)
And finally, perhaps you’d occasionally like to say the same to those Eminences who sling mud at me – lots of examples for you to choose from.
I imagine you, Habbabkuk, as a cartoon character – possibly Wile E. Cayote – pouring out an giant-sized pot of Acme Corp Superglue onto the road. And this is rather the point, isn’t it? We’re not having a discussion if we have to wade through all this nonsense.
Someone here – I forget who – raised the image recently of a Shell representative “attending” a Greenpeace meeting and frequently exercising their right to free speech using a megaphone they’ve brought along. It is quite possible that your “100 rebuttals” might fall into the same category, and I think moderation needs to respond to that.
Anyway, I’m taking my tutu off and leaving the house! Be good to each other this evening 🙂