The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Small beginning. National strikes impact the core of the Status Quo. Let it spread. Holy cow, if fast-food employees can be organized against a non-living wage, wtf are the rest of us waiting for?
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/25
Flaming June: I wouldn’t worry too much if I were you. I have read the offending post and note that it contains the following paragraph (forgive me for repeating it here):
“Remembering Mary’s comment about not being a jew hater I was just googling for some previous comments where she linked attacks on the Israeli Govt to Jewish festivals on two occaisions (and never gave a satisfactory explanation as why her language did not amount to anti-semitism – at least in my opinion) and up popped the offending Stormfront post. Just Google “flaming mary” jews “craig murray” if you don’t believe me and see what comes up”
I did just that. Google produces a page and a half of results. They all link to random pages on this site where a couple of posters here have referred to you as Flaming Mary. None of them contains any comments by you that could justify the accusation made.
You have to wonder why the author of this paragraph did not simply link directly to a post of yours containing the alleged comments. My guess is that it’s because there is none to be found.
Jon
Is it or is it not the case that Habbabkuk has been caught by you in similar sorts of deceptions previously, the latest being only a few days ago.
It seems to me curious that those who have “form” for such fraudulent tactics should themselves be lecturing others and speculating upon the most recent Nazi fraud.
It’s very disappointing that genuine decent posters cannot be better protected from such fraudsters.
It’s worth pointing out that those of us here and elsewhere who are concerned about our wars and loss of civil liberties etc have truth on our side and that our enemies are routine practitioners of deceits and other fraudulent practicces.
So, you can see that even discursively our enemies’ main tactic can only be hiding and concealing the true nature of their project. They’ll use false flags, deliberate lying and the prosecution of truth tellers, amongst other tricks.
Such deceptions are all they have, and I would certainly argue that when these deceptions arise they’ll arise more naturally from those whose only mission is to deceive.
They’re hardly likely to come out and tell us that all their slaughtering, maiming and more general destruction is to control resources and make money for themselves, so deception is their only argument.
It’s the only MO available to them.
Bravo Suhayl – Strong balanced knockdowns that leech the mainstream hogwash and propaganda intended to vilify the Syrian government . – I have reposted them. 🙂
Indeedy, Herbie. Moral bankruptcy is part of the genome. End justifies means is the motto for the lacrosse clubbers who value winning more than the game itself; high-sticking at every opportunity when the referee is distracted. They have no moral high-ground except in fevered delusions of grandeur which they cultivate with the same loam used by mushroom farmers.
Good on you, Habby for your persistence and clarity. We are supposed to be amongst serious people here who are seeking the truth, although one could easily be fooled for the nonsense that passes here for objectivity. The special attention seeker suckeeds to get the light touch without any embarrassment whatsoever.
Interesting that cartoon character Jon paints. In the same vein he should’ve appreciated my creative invention of “the Manager of a Bangladeshi restaurant handing out a menu of stale food” (when he eagerly rushed to the new celebrity entrant ‘James Mason’ with an offering of the ‘staple’ products on offer here)! 🙂 LOL even if i do so myself! At least mine was original!
PS Now U.N.C.L.E. N.A.R.R.A.T.I.V.E himself is back.
Villager,
He was the No 3 candidate alongside Julian Assange and Leslie Cannold for the Senate seats of Victoria. Now Leslie Cannold – who as No 2 candidate was expected to fill the seat in the event that Assange was successfully elected but couldn’t leave the Ecuadorian embassy by July 2014 – is gone and Binoy moves up to the No 2 spot.
Binoy’s biog:
Dr. Binoy Kampmark teaches core legal courses within the Legal and Dispute Studies program for the Bachelor of Social Science at RMIT University. He has research interests in the institution of war, diplomacy, international relations, 20th Century History and law. He has written extensively on these topics in both refereed journals and more popular media.
Binoy’s research and teaching interests lie in the intersections of law, international relations and history. Much of this involves the examination of conflict, diplomacy, and the various crises confronting international society (refugees, terrorism, ‘rogue’ states, undocumented citizens). He is currently finishing a manuscript for publication on the evolution of the rogue state in American political debate. He is also engaged in a project on the origins of neoconservatism in the United States, notably in attitudes to international institutions and law.
The quality of his research has been acknowledged in awards made by the US-based International Association for the Study of Forced Migration and Limina, journal of the History Department of the University of Western Australia.
He’s a regular contributor to Counterpunch, Dissident Voice and Eureka Street. Here’s his latest article, on Chelsea Manning’s 35-year sentence.
A History of the Vanquished: The Virtue of Chelsea Manning:
http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/08/a-history-of-the-vanquished-the-virtue-of-chelsea-manning/
Arbed; JA can’t possibly handle the workload in his present handicap. What is the fookin strategy for getting him out of the Embassy? A better question; Is there a strategy?
Very well and indeed stlylishly put, Ben.
Were we having the real argument here it would be between those who think it is necessary for our existential needs, financial and otherwise that we subdue by whatever means all those who have stuff we need, and those who think that such slaughter is a heavy price to pay for our by now quite banal culture.
As it is we’re having little more than a pre-argument between those who prefer to deny the real argument and present instead a phony argument which has nothing to do with what’s going on anywhere, and those who are interested in revealing the truth.
MJ – I should have said google ” flaming june” jews “craig murray” – apologies for conflating the posters various names. If you really wish I’m am sure you can find the other posts I mentioned.
Yeah. ‘Absolutism’ is a bit far off the mark of speech. It’s said that with freedom comes responsibility , iow you may have a right you can legally pursue, but how does your right impinge on the freedom of another?
Sometimes, it’s not responsible to insist on your right, or someone else’s right. I think i’ve used the analogy before, but you don’t have a right to falsely yell ‘FIRE!” in a theater.
Good question Ben. Difficult to conceive a strategy utc — i think its going to be one of those event-driven things called life! I think JA would do well to make time to read Baba Ram Dass or K or both.
Thanks for that Arbed. The link worth the read. Here’s an extract:
“For Pentagon Papers whistleblower, Daniel Ellsberg, the Manning conviction sees the traces of a police state appearing on the U.S. security landscape. On Wednesday, a worried Ellsberg told HuffPost Live how, “We have not only the capability of a police state, but certain beginnings of it right now.” Ellsberg is hardly a howling Cassandra, harbinger of dystopian times to come. He is, rather, the realist of his age: to not own up to the condition is to accept an addiction. U.S.A. Inc., via its octopi functions through the NSA and private security firms such as Stratfor, is addicted and is proving to be a violent drunk. Many citizens, without realising it, continue to provide the liquor.
This does not prevent Ellsberg from issuing a call to arms, the message of challenging reform. “And I absolutely agree with Edward Snowden. It’s worth a person’s life, prospect of assassination, or life in prison or life in exile – it’s worth that to try to restore our liberties and make this a democratic country.”
Ben,
Operative word there being ‘falsely’. But we absolutely SHOULD yell it if the flames are licking up the walls…
That’s what this War on Whistleblowers is all about, isn’t it? They really don’t want people telling everyone that what they’re really up to – in secret, while spying on the rest of us – is burning the house down.
“Bedroom tax MPs claim child housing subsidy”
http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/6528260.article?mobilesite=enabled
Villager; The remote access makes for opportunities for other moles, or wrongly motivated souls to do mischief. I think a lot of the appearance of disarray, is psyops performed by the uninitiated and not necessarily the core of COINTELPRO. More like ‘good citizens’ who don’t know they are behaving more like collaborators, which in my book, is the flip side of ‘TRAITORS’. They don’t rally understand how traitorous they are. They think they’re Patriots. Of what? I ask.
Absolutely correct, Arbed. I gather from your words above that you think Assange running for office could be a strategy. If so, what is the strategy for getting him elected. (sorry to pick on you but you have been scrupulous in following)
Ben, perhaps you’re reading too much into my comment. I just think that is a challenge and an opportunity to live the way he’s living. Quite simply I think he should be careful to not bite off more than he can chew, that is all. Whistleblowing is one thing, politics quite another. Further, living in constant awareness is not something easy to come to and could bring change at he consciousness level. Its probably what got him into trouble with those girls in Sweden. He must be wondering, at some level, if those couple of screws were worth it.
@Jon
“I’ve read that post, but see only conjecture. It’s unpleasant, but I think you’ve refuted any accusation of racism, or posting on Stormfront, most successfully. I think Res Diss is wrong to apply accusations of antisemitism to you, but since he/she has not done so frequently, I think it can be left. “Racist” does tend to get lobbed around in all directions here, and it would be nice if it could be used more sparingly ”
I resent this statement entirely – largely for the reasons provided by Habba. Perhaps I should also object to the similar recent posts accusing me of being a liar, a fascist, a shill etc. etc. to see if the moderation here is even handed. Stangely enough however I have better things to do with my time.
Ben, i don’t quite see how being elected is a strategy?
“Perhaps I should also object to the similar recent posts accusing me of being a liar, a fascist, a shill etc. etc. to see if the moderation here is even handed.”
OF COURSE its not even handed, RD and you’re quite right to point it out. I’ve been called a wanker and a bastard in the last couple of days but Jon is partial to all those that wear Palestine on their sleeves–thats the entry-ticket here–even if they’re rabid.
” perhaps you’re reading too much into my comment”
I did expand way beyond. It was a general ‘riff’ against the Legion of lawyers all ginned-up up about the sacred grail, THE LAW, and traitors, as if they understand how they tar themselves.
Villager; I thought Arbed might have said JA getting elected might be a strategy for getting him out of the Embassy. He can’t stay there much longer…maybe there would be additional legal protections from USG extradition.
Thanks for Binoy’s article, Arbed and also the link to our claim hungry MP’s operating their course through the daily perks and benefits jungle, from someone.
The culture of self serving never stopped, except now its institutionalised. Obscenity in name.
Villager and RD; I thought you guys were made of sterner stuff. Personally, I have developed quite the alligator-hide during my tenure at blogs left, center and right. If I could lend, I would.
Ben,
No need to apologise. Not sure if I can answer your questions very well but, um, the strategy for getting elected was, I believe, the Wikileaks Party (oh dear…) and its core policy of “transparency, accountability and justice” for governments – hence the exclusive focus on Senate seats, rather than the lower house – and Assange’s name recognition and popularity in Australia, where he was polling around the 20-25 per cent mark for “voting intention”. The Wikileaks Party has produced a few statements concerning other issue areas, such as asylum seekers (a BIG issue in Australia), climate change, etc. Here’s their latest policy statement, on Syria and the potential involvement of Australia’s military in this latest war adventure:
http://www.wikileaksparty.org.au/wikileaks-party-statement-on-intervention-in-syria/#more-1248
Re: strategy to get him out of the embassy – given that the Swedish prosecutor/government won’t budge on either questioning in the UK or offering guarantees against US extradition (and both UK and Sweden are afraid to move a muscle without the say-so of Washington) – I think it’s a combination of things:
1. Ecuador last week submitted a 15-page document outlining the ways in which the UK is violating international law and a way out for the UK to offer safe passage. So, they’ll keep negotiating, no doubt.
2. I believe in May of next year the EAW submitted by Sweden for his extradition will become invalid due to the UK’s planned total opt-out of the EAW system. There will be a gap of four months before the UK opts back in, with two new rules: EAWs cannot be used for trivial offences and there must already have been at least a decision to charge for EAWs to be valid. As it is unlawful in Sweden for a decision to charge to be made prior to questioning and the conclusion of a preliminary investigation, the current EAW issued by Marianne Ny won’t qualify to be revalidated.
3. Waiting. Due to many things – the outcome of Chelsea Manning’s case making it all too obvious what awaits Assange; the extent of the antics of the US in its attempts to nab Snowden; UK taxpayer fury at the £5m policing cost; a drop-off in enthusiasm for pursuing the case in Sweden; more digging that’s been done into the mechanics of the evidence (see the Why I Believe Anna Ardin is a Liar thread for details) etc, etc – the politics of the matter are slowly changing. At some point the political will to keep him in London will die.
Fingers crossed! 🙂
Ben, i wouldn’t underestimate the stuff we’re made of. Its all this whining by the Resident Moaner and pandering leading to daily deletions that sickens me. Plus why would Jon the moderator not debate the principles here, especially as this thread is languishing with little to say for itself. Presumably you’ve noted how he’s short-shrifted Glenn who is a non-controversial, presumably long-term poster here?
We’re in the early stages of a post-censorship period here. Isn’t it worth highlighting while its happening under our noses.
Like Glenn said what is it that you are deleting that our fluttering eyes can’t withstand? Sterner stuff is precisely what one is arguing for.
Ben,
You probably missed my earlier post, where I explained that Assange had announced his intention to run for the Australian Senate in December 2011 (or thereabouts, can’t remember exactly) – well before his extradition appeal went before the Supreme Court and his decampment to the embassy. So, no, not connected; however, it would be politically helpful in respect of safe passage from the embassy as successful election would raising the whole thing for TPTB from the level of geopolitical nightmare for them to the level of full-blown diplomatic nightmare. 🙂
Arbed, thanks for taking the trouble to outline. Can Ecuador file suit somewhere? Risky strategy i imagine.
not sure how the EAW situation can help in practice in that 4-month period? He’s broken bail conditions in the UK.
I think Jon’s role is consigned to ‘herding cats’, which doesn’t leave room for error, Villager.
Maybe we should do away with moderation, in it’s entirety. Of course, that leaves a few with the shittiest end of the stick, kinda like now, doesn’t it?
on the safe passage issue, imho thats wishful thinking, and the election will be considered to be a deliberate avoidance strategy.