The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Where do you stand on decreasing human rights in the west?
Against. I agree that they have decreased in overall terms in recent years although the longer term trend has been positive. There are of course several different human rights and there are many many conflicts between the rights held by differnt people – so obviously any sane person believes that there has no be some mechanism for resolving those conflicts – the West’s imperfect democracies are the least worst I have seen in history.
Yes, I can see that Arbed.
Thanks Arbed. I agree a UK appointment is unlikely to work, at any level. And if its another country there are still complications in the context of getting him there as the US has proved that they will apply a possession is 9/10ths of the law principle, i.e. physically grab him at any cost, almost.
The Unknown is not just something that lies in the horizon of outer space. Its applicable right here on the playground of world events. It’s difficult to envisage but something may happen somewhere sometime which will have the unintended consequence of allowing Assange out. A lot can happen in a year or five.
Res Diss says of human rights in the west:
“I agree that they have decreased in overall terms in recent years although the longer term trend has been positive.”
Why do you think they have decreased in overall terms in recent years, and indeed why do you think that the longer term trend to which you refer is still in play.
“Res Diss says of human rights in the west:”
Why don’t you address him/RD directly?
Are you playing to the gallery?
WTFDYUTUR?
Arbed; Who do you think was the source for the Independent story?
Arbed 25 Aug, 2013 – 7:43 pm
“a general recognition of the wisdom of a publisher taking action to avoid prior restraint on the publication of classified materials here in the UK”
I struggle to see how this argument is relevant to wikileaks who are neither releasing snowden’s material nor uk based.
“I don’t believe that there is a single substantial criticism from a liberal viewpoint that at sometime or other couldn’t also be thrown at Christainity or Judiasm”
Agreed, RD. Human nature, at work. You can’t separate the team from the players in most of the schismatic departures from the originas, based upon personal preferences. It’s been said before that a menu or ‘cafeteria’ of choices for those who can’t withstand orthodoxy, and want their ears tickled on the Sabbath, rather than courses on self-development, is the general approach to religion, and that includes nearly all of them.
The Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations is the place to start for anyone wanting answers for some of the questions above.
Anyone can be put forward for accreditation as Ambassador/High Commissioner by their ‘sending state’. But it requires approval ‘agrement’ of the receiving state. The receiving state can say no and is not require under the treaty to give a reason. So in the case of Switzerland, the Swiss Government would have to give consent. N.B. It would normally be the Head of State but in the case of international organisational appointments the Foreign Minister would receive accreditation as the Head of State retains sovereign right in relation to the state (Ambassadors posted to Berne, whereas appointment to Geneva is not a sovereign post).
There are provisions in the treaty for travel for official purposes through third states where immunity remains intact. There would be no question of needing accreditation in that country separately – it is a matter of state practice. However, if a diplomatic posting was awarded with an intention of evading justice, it would be hard to see the receiving state agreeing. Any third country through which the person wishes to travel would also be able to argue that the purpose was not official. In the event of disputes over treaty obligations, the final arbiter includes consideration of the ‘object and purpose’ of a treaty. So I believe it would be difficult to argue that the Vienna Convention allowed accreditations which could justifiably be found to be evading law.
BEN, another beautiful version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-fQyFsr6VA
Thanks for that JM. My implication was an appt to the mission to the UN in Geneva. How would you reckon that would fit in terms of acceptability?
Oh sorry, Phil, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear. I meant in light of what’s happened recently to the Guardian there is no debate about the wisdom of Wikileaks using “insurance” files to avoid prior restraint. But they do this on a regular basis anyway, against any and all threats to publication that might come their way. They are considered a nuisance by governments the world over – I don’t think there’s any government that wouldn’t like to see them shut down. No, sorry, I’m exaggerating there. Perhaps Ecuador wouldn’t, under the circs. Iceland seems reasonably tolerant too.
I have not downloaded this 395GB file myself (would take forever on my bit torrent client) and, frankly, there’s no way to prove whether it contains copies of Snowden’s documents as it’s AES256-encrypted. I’d say there’s a fair chance it does, though – it’s said that Snowden has distributed copies in several places.
So there’s still the possibility that JA could be appointed by Ecuador to a friendly country, say Bolivia, but there’s still the question of getting him there?
What about Russia flying Snowden to Bolivia via Cuba on a military plane?
Villager
It might raise the interest level for many people.
But the Convention does not address any latitude in that regard So it would not work. The credibility would be lacking and no receiving state wants to risk what the impact would be on its own sending ability. That’s why the link above citing the case of the Dominican Republic did not result in a rejection.
Ben,
I don’t think it was the UK government, despite Glenn Greenwald’s and Edward Snowden’s assertions (though I concede the latter probably has a great deal more information available to him to form his view on the matter than I do).
My theory is that it was loose lips between a Guardian journalist and an Independent journalist, and the Indy has written it up sight unseen based on what they learned this way, fleshed it out a bit with the help of an old hand at unveiling US/UK surveillance practices such as Duncan Campbell (who was threatened and harassed for his 1999 article about NSA surveillance), then phoned the UK government and the Guardian for contextual comments/denials. I base this theory on my personal assessment of the quality of the Independent’s journalism generally over the last few years.
JM; This seems to rotate back to the impotence of the UN.
Thanks again JM. Meaning all apointments to Geneva and New york UN missions need to be cleared by the Swiss foreign minister and Secy of State, respectively? Just to be clear please.
Arbed; Glenn seems to be flailing like hell at his critics, and it’s kind of a distraction. How many PP pages are still under cover? Guardian legal staff must be stonewalling. I understand all this should be digested slowly, and that’s why I thought outside influence was trying to get ahead of the next drip using the Independent, just like NYT has been chumped before. Anyway, I don’t care who releases. It’s all good.
I wonder if JA is taking Spanish language lessons. The Wikileaks party is beginning to sound like an ambitious piece of distraction. JA needs to let trustworthy friends run it.
Heh. note my use of the word ‘outside influence’ with a touch of temerity.
Iamnottanantisemite.com
“Here are the links you requested”
I requested a link to a comment by Mary. You provided two links to comments by yourself.
“Christainity or Judiasm”
If memory serves, Christainity is a part Judiasm, I think Christainity is the twelfth tribe of Judiasm. It is also possible for a Christian to worship in a synagogue.
Not many people know that!.
Villager
I believe they do. There is a principle though that they will not reject on the basis that the HQ happens to be in their own state. The international institutions themselves also need to receive a form of communication as receiving Institutions. But none of this gets around state practice and reluctance by states to undermine the credibility of the process. Much international law is observed on the theory that not to do so would result in chaos. This is in addition to the practical impact – would a state sending an individual in such a way be able to expect their representative to carry out their duties effectively on behalf of all the states interests in that role?
Oh.
Juice Rap News, Episode 20 – featuring Julian Assange
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWU6tVxzO1I#t=80
Well, perhaps he’s decided that now the Wikileaks Party has gone tits-up he’s not taking the Senate election seriously any more…
(But don’t give up the day job, Julian!)
” would a state sending an individual in such a way be able to expect their representative to carry out their duties effectively on behalf of all the states interests in that role?”
If I understand your point that was the stone in my shoe even if he could qualify. I doubt there is any ‘honorary’ or ’emeritus’ position.
WTF??
http://www.timesofisrael.com/typing-error-sends-tel-aviv-stock-exchange-plummeting/
“Not many people know that!”
When we brought civilization to Hawaii that had to include missionaries. The legacy of painted churches decorated with paintings of native flora on the interior was necessary to get the Hawaiians, used to worshiping god in the great outdoors, inside the church.
AA the NASDAQ had to shut down last week do to a glitch. Shenanigans or garbage-in-garbage-out programming?
Re Syria, Wikileaks has just released keyword-searchable listings of all the Stratfor intelligence files for Syria, picking out a few of the interesting ones.
INSIGHT – military intervention in Syria, post withdrawal status of forces:
http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1671459_insight-military-intervention-in-syria-post-withdrawal.html
A load more via these links:
WIKILEAKS RELEASE #Syria: 84,067 emails from US intelligence contractor #Stratfor
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/371715750848770049
WIKILEAKS RELEASE #Syria: 1,181 sensitive emails from US intelligence contractor #Stratfor
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/371716241691394048
WIKILEAKS RELEASE #Syria: 149 very sensitive emails from US intelligence contractor #Stratfor
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/371716498936438784
Bem,
Yes I noticed the NASDAQ was down for 3 whole hours and then now this. Wonder if anyone bough shares In “Israel Corporation” at the 99.98% discount.
Fertilizers and Specialty Chemicals. Sounds delightful.