The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Res Diss
“I would say that the main reason for the decline in western human rights in recent years has been the economic downturn and that despite what the Marxists forecast market economies will continue to find ways to adapt to crises with a little help from the central governments.”
What produced the economic downturn?
I mean like, was it an accident or is it like some sort of organic business cycle.
I suppose you mean too that the decline in human rights and civil liberties is to better control the peeps when things get really bad?
I certainly don’t think there’ll be much adapting of the type you envisage when things fall apart.
If you look carefully you’ll see they’re laying in the groundwork for what seems much closer to fascism than liberal democracy.
It’s interesting too that it seems mostly to be the US and UK who are suffering the major loss of civil liberties, though it’d be interesting to see exactly what’s going on in those areas in Europe and the other Anglo-Saxon countries.
Res Diss
“How many crises of capitalism and imperialism does the world have to go through before you appreciate that markets and the human spirit find ways to adapt and improve.”
This isn’t just an economic crisis. It’s an end of empire thing.
Were there a fairer global economic system, the living standards of the West would plummet.
“Thankfully there are still a few of us who do not see Armageddon as inevitable and can see other alternatives.”
How do you see it playing out alternatively?
RD; Gold is an inconvenient commodity. It has to be stored and guarded. It also takes Banking and Finance shenanigans to the woodshed. It doesn’t allow the free-range chickens of deficit exploitation to get their extra feed falling off the truck. They can’t finagle. Curious that a profession so conservative when it comes to lending must have collateral for the loan, but wish to skirt that inconvenient control over malfeasance. The gold standard may not be the best foundation for cooking the books, but it’s better than the current non-system of false-value currency based upon delusional belief it has value. Barter is workable, but of course no ideal solution. What is your suggestion?
RD: “Thankfully there are still a few of us who do not see Armageddon as inevitable and can see other alternatives.”
Thank you, RD, for those comforting words. I was beginning to get very depressed by the words of someone who speaks with great authority but, given we are speaking matters very technical, whose credentials we know nought about.
Of course, i blame Habby for having started this funny-money dialogue at what should be a peaceful end to a sunny bank holiday weekend 😉
“How many crises of capitalism and imperialism does the world have to go through before you appreciate that markets and the human spirit find ways to adapt and improve”
Because the human spirit is inclined toward short-cuts and not long-term benefit, especially these days. Short-selling used to be frowned upon. Hot stocks without much besides sexy upticks on the Exchange are pushed ‘churn ’em and burn ’em” is the soup du jour every day. Long learning curves for rising stock prices is like, what, 2 weeks now. The Japanese used to kick our butts with long term projections and 100 year game-plans. Ours used to be 10 year plans. The climate has changed and avaricious behavior is much more the rule, than the exception.
Herbie
What produced the economic downturn? Please read rather wider on the theory about the causes of economic cycles – in particular look up Krugman, the Minsky moment and read a good book about how the ABS industry developed (Gillian Tett’s book is pretty accessible) as a result of herd mentality, poor regulation and the failure of the market to price underlying risk properly.
“I suppose you mean too that the decline in human rights and civil liberties is to better control the peeps when things get really bad?”
No – if you need a demonstration as to why I was reluctant to debate with you – let this sort of straw man cum insult stand as Exhibit No. 1
If you look carefully you’ll see they’re laying in the groundwork for what seems much closer to fascism than liberal democracy – Exhibit no 2. – I haven’t even mentioned how I would like to see the crisis addresed.
It’s interesting too that it seems mostly to be the US and UK who are suffering the major loss of civil liberties,
Exhibit no 3 – where have I said this or even entered into any form of comparative analysis on the loss of civil liberties/human rights
Given your statement “banker wins again” perhaps you could tell us who are the bankers who are going to win again and who are the driving forces within the banking community? I’m sure your audience are waiting to hear with baited breath.
RD; I haven’t insulted you. Or have I?
Economies weren’t designed with this in mind.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=RBRTE&f=A
http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2013/08/26/chinese-internet-hit-by-attack-over-weekend/
“The attack began at 2 a.m. Sunday morning and was followed by a more intense attack at 4 a.m., according to the China Internet Network Information Center, which apologized to affected users in its statement and said it is working to improve its “service capabilities.”
It’s irresponsible to speculate, but what if China did get one of Snowden’s HD’s.
A correlation between the price of oil and gold? ‘Natch.
“On a sample of daily interval data from January 2, 1986 to March 3, 2012 (6,457 matching intervals), using basic statistics, a 2-sample t test was performed and the results are eye-opening. We can say that .0602 ounces of gold times the price of gold produces the price of a barrel of oil, with an standard error of just .421%, or an average difference of just $6.10 dollars between the calculated price and the actual price since 1986. For the last 26 years, the price of gold dictated the price of oil with 99.579 percent accuracy.
Read more: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/energy-harnassed/2012/jul/17/does-gold-set-price-oil/#ixzz2d6p79vH8
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter
Ben what the fuck do you think they are beating the drums of war?
The simple truth is, before the Iraq war in 2003 the oil was around $20 to $28, and now it is $112! All these fucking loose dollars find their way into the price of oil and get bought by those wishing to buy oil and shit. It is very simple; print a toilet paper with some figures on it, and then go around creating all sorts of uncertainties, and conflict so that the commodities are getting higher in the price, which is really buying more of the said toilet papers to buy the same shit as before.
It is stealing the worlds wealth for zero returns, and the fucking idiots get along with it too.
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Thanks for the link mate, graphically explains the above.
@ resident dissident 26 Aug, 2013 – 8:14 pm
“and I very much doubt that the wacky baccy trade would have developed without the anonymity offered by money (well in Canada at least)”
I vaguely recall bits of early US history when not only states but private businesses printed their own paper currencies, and the ensuing confusion and financial crisis.
These were called “scripts” and effectively tied the workers to one or other firm they worked for. The Company had housing, shops, etc, salve owning without the hassles of feeding or keeping the slaves.
YOu can still buy them today
TOP SECRET – FOR YOUR EYES ONLY..
Israel obviously would like President Assad replaced by a fanatical Western puppet terrorist bent on sectarian dismemberment(the Iraq game).
Israel is working with Cyprus in a plan to supply and pipe cheap energy to Europe to get around the past/imminent threat of closing the valve from Russia and break her market.
Britain is controlling the decision to crush Syria NOT America.
The top secret Norwood plan is to strike with tactical cruise from all three British bases in Cyprus (they face Syria).
Britain has reliable(safe lens implode explosives) and small 150Kton nuclear war-heads. Britain will strike Syria regardless as UN are impotent. Iran will attempt to help Syria and America (in a world war II storyline) will engage, retaliate and wreak vengeance against Iran in a massive air-strike.
While on one hand the world and Russia is watching American naval cruise destroyers the other hand is using British home grown fire power locked to target coords from American satellites.
For apostles and followers here please proliferate the current intention – for the oppugners and terrorists – you have been rumbled.
Resident Dissident 26 Aug, 2013 – 8:45 pm
“…the ABS industry”
What is the the ABS industry?
I have asked Putin to reset his coordinates.
RD; I haven’t insulted you. Or have I?
No – haven’t really got the time to enter ito your point about shortsightedness in markets – undoubtedly happens but the mood is definely starting to flow in the other direction, more so in Continental Europe and even the US than the UK (where we have a particularly antediluvian governement when it comes to economics and managing financial markets). Short positions are now much harder to hold due to reporting requirements and restrictions on funding, tighter restrictions on the degree of leverage by banks and hedge funds – and a lot more interest in longer term investment banks – even our new Canadian Bank of England is seeking to make longer term statements about the level of interest rates.
“Of course, i blame Habby for having started this funny-money dialogue at what should be a peaceful end to a sunny bank holiday weekend”
__________________
I know you’re joshing but what you wrote gives me the opportunity to say that I’m rather pleased I started it because there have been some good, informative and interesting posts on the matter and what’s even better, all made in a good-tempered and civilised way. Thanks to all!
Back to Syrian war propaganda. US SecState Kerry repeats insane assertion that social media out of Syria proves Assad is responsible and wails that no person who sees pic of father holding dying child could deny this.
The “social media” words must be focus-group tested, as if social media resonates as more truthful with certain groups than UN experts.
DM readers, ordinarily total suckers for anything to do with dead and dying children, aren’t buying it, an encouraging sign, except it will do nothing to stop the fait accompli of at least a few missile strikes.
The US far-left discussion on Syria I found (dailykos.com) breaks down similar to Craig Murray, though it’s well buried in a side-link. Nothing on the front page.
The US far-right is entirely ignoring the matter, except for one brief remark from a radio host (Beck), who was dismayed that only 9% of people saw fit to do the “right thing”. He was one who was on the correct side of things with Snowden and surveillance.
All US media, all day, is consumed by Miley Cyrus shamelessly twerking (as if a new perversion was invented and thrust (ha ha) upon us — it was previously known as dirty dancing, subject of a hit movie way back when) at the MTV awards.
Oh, this just in, Sen McCain is worried that if we don’t fling some missiles at Syria, US credibility will be further diminished, if there’s any credibility left. He’s right about the last point, there’s no credibility left. It will be in minus numbers after the upcoming fiasco.
It’s like watching dinosaurs dying, tails flailing, crashing into whatever.
Phil
Asset backed securities aka as CDOs Collateralised Debt Obligations – basically debts (often but not always sub prime mortgages) which were packaged together often with derivatives and then split into different tiers – many of which courtesy of dodgy mathematical modelling, credit rating agencies, accountants and lawyers became high quality debts – or so the markets believed and everyone benefiting from the sale of products led the markets to believe – until the underlying debts inevitably didn’t make repayments on time.
“Britain has reliable(safe lens implode explosives) and small 150Kton nuclear war-heads. Britain will strike Syria regardless as UN are impotent. Iran will attempt to help Syria and America (in a world war II storyline) will engage, retaliate and wreak vengeance against Iran in a massive air-strike.”
Once that nuke tar-baby gets out of the briar patch there’s no puttin’ it back in. Sarin gas created an opening to consider feasible, but it’s just an escalator up with none going down. Not sure who your source is Mark, but I hope it’s wrong.
“Asset backed securities aka as CDOs Collateralised Debt Obligations – basically debts (often but not always sub prime mortgages) which were packaged together often with derivatives and then split into different tiers – many of which courtesy of dodgy mathematical modelling, credit rating agencies, accountants and lawyers became high quality debts – or so the markets believed and everyone benefiting from the sale of products led the markets to believe – until the underlying debts inevitably didn’t make repayments on time.”
That’s why gold is loathed….shenanigans aplenty.
It would be dershowitzian logic for Assad to gas 1300 children/no rebels? 45 minutes away from UN Inspectors he has just invited two day ago. Especially after having made the recent gains against them. And in the capital city Damascus, under the eyes of the entire world of all places. it defies logic. But the cacaphony of the Synagogue of Satan remains overwhelming, in their MSM.
Here at this blog the most they have been able to do is tag team away on some digress (all of page 19 almost), with some unsuspecting cattle or cryptos entirely unaware (Ben).
THE REAL QUESTION RIGHT NOW IS HOW AND FROM WHERE DID THE REBELS GET THE SARIN NERVE GAS – its gotta be israel?!!
“I vaguely recall bits of early US history when not only states but private businesses printed their own paper currencies, and the ensuing confusion and financial crisis.”
Not only in the US – payments in truck which could only be accepted in company “tommy” shops was one of the main motivating forces behind the Rochdale Pioneers that eventaully grew into the retail Co-operative movement. The first of many Truck Acts seeking to ban/restrict payment in Truck was in 1725 – and the right of British Workers to receive their wages in cash (ie. green folding stuff rather than a bank transfer) was only removed by Thatcher in 1983 – but this still presents a problem for some without ready access to bank accounts who lose out when they present their pay chequyes.
Krishnamurky; Surely you can tell us what you are. We cattle are curious creatures.
There are of course still many parts of the world where modern day equivents of the truck system continue to exist.
Res Diss
“What produced the economic downturn? Please read rather wider on the theory about the causes of economic cycles – in particular look up Krugman, the Minsky moment and read a good book about how the ABS industry developed (Gillian Tett’s book is pretty accessible) as a result of herd mentality, poor regulation and the failure of the market to price underlying risk properly.”
You mean an increase in the money supply. Why didn’t you say that.
Anyway. All the above is the work of bankers.
“Given your statement “banker wins again” perhaps you could tell us who are the bankers who are going to win again”
The bankers are the ones who lend the money into the economy.
Sheesh…
You don’t appear to have much of an overview. Are you a details man?
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You haven’t said anything about why there’s the decline in humman rights, and civil liberties and indeed whether you think it’s a blip.
“That’s why gold is loathed….shenanigans aplenty.”
If you really think gold is free from shenanigans might I intorduce you to some Swiss bankers, or some gentelemen from de Beers or the Russian Central Bank (the Uzbeks also have some and you can read a little about their games with gold in Craig’s book)
There goes Herbie, getting down in the mud, flinging it around and being his usual rude self. Sourpuss.
Notice the reason why he doesn’t use paras is because he thinks he scores a point for every sentence.
That’s the point you haven’t addressed; Shenanigans possible WITHOUT gold.